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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Lmfao.

    Yeah, everybody completely forgot about Battlefield, Call of Duty, Starcraft, Diablo, Warcraft the RTS series, DotA, Counter-Strike, 4-party RPG games, Half-Life, etc. etc.

    Also, GoG doesn't exist, Valve doesn't exist, Bioware doesn't exist, and everybody in the entire world loves WoW compared to every other game, which of course perfectly explains why WoW is now a tiny fraction of the total gaming market. /s

    The only decrepit shit around here is what you're spewing.
    I am clearly talking about MMOs, pal.

    I understand reading is not your strongest suit, but if you wipe that saliva for a moment and absorb the context, it may help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Never had there been a wow expac as bad or divisive as bfa. If you wanna live in denial and think bfa is better than classic or every other iteration of wow go ahead; but the vast majority of woe players walked away from bfa more than any other expac.

    Go ahead and look at the road ahead from previous expacs and current on YouTube and spend time to read comments. Other expacs had much more love than bfa. Bfa is the worst and it isn’t debatable by any reasonable gamer
    I heard that line too. You know what? Let's play your hyperbole game for a moment.

    You genuinely want to tell me BfA is worse and more divisive than Borelords of Snorenor - an expansion that had absolute 0 casual content? Because fucking lol if you say yes. Please say yes, so I can laugh.

    Want to hear my take on things? BfA is considerably better than WoD and is better than Cata. That already makes it far from "omg worst most divisive expansion" and we're not even half xpack in.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I am clearly talking about MMOs, pal.

    I understand reading is not your strongest suit, but if you wipe that saliva for a moment and absorb the context, it may help.
    Good thing I adressed MMORPG's then, isn't it? I'm going to guess you couldn't be bothered to read it because you were too busy salivating at the prospect of making me look foolish.

    Try taking your own advice for a second.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    Good thing I adressed MMORPG's then, isn't it? I'm going to guess you couldn't be bothered to read it because you were too busy salivating at the prospect of making me look foolish.

    Try taking your own advice for a second.
    "Battlefield, Call of Duty, Starcraft, Diablo, Warcraft the RTS series, DotA, Counter-Strike, 4-party RPG games, Half-Life, etc. etc."

    Nice mmorpgs there mate, can you give me more?


    P.S. I honestly get a kick of this thread, it's like a stand-up comedy show all over.

  4. #484
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Can you share what you’re smoking when you say bfa is a better game than vanilla? BFA will be remembered as the worst expac in wow history. Wow classic has a place amongst the greatest games ever made.

    Classic wow still appeals to a large segment of wows population more than bfa. Most of us remember the bad with the good and I’m more than willing to suffer leveling a prot warrior in classic slowly and painfully before I’ll spend another day in bfa
    Classic and modern WoW have very little in common other than the name, the best proof being how most Classic haters love BfA, and viceversa. And BfA no doubt caters to a few demographics, namely the <4 hours a week casual and the mythic raidlogger. For both of these groups, BfA might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, even if I find it meh at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    "Battlefield, Call of Duty, Starcraft, Diablo, Warcraft the RTS series, DotA, Counter-Strike, 4-party RPG games, Half-Life, etc. etc."

    Nice mmorpgs there mate, can you give me more?
    Implying that people who play MMORPGs cannot play any other type of games whatsoever.
    "This world is a prison!"

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    "Battlefield, Call of Duty, Starcraft, Diablo, Warcraft the RTS series, DotA, Counter-Strike, 4-party RPG games, Half-Life, etc. etc."

    Nice mmorpgs there mate, can you give me more?


    P.S. I honestly get a kick of this thread, it's like a stand-up comedy show all over.
    And I was obviously referencing back to this, which you responded to:

    The nearest competitor to WoW is still Final Fantasy (then it was 11, now it's 14, I believe?), and literally the same guy that made Dark Age of Camelot also made The Elder Scrolls Online. Whereas then there was Everquest, today there is Neverwinter. How direct and obvious does it have to be?
    Honestly, I'm out of patience with you. You're so utterly deluded and lost that there is no hope, and any attempt to convince you is just glossed over and not even read.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Implying that people who play MMORPGs cannot play any other type of games whatsoever.
    Where did you come from? Here let me bring up to speed - I am talking about MMORPGs strictly and then all of a sudden some... misguided person... brings in examples that are about as much MMORPGs as a bloody Tetris.

    And you just pile on it, even further missing the point. Le sigh.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Implying that people who play MMORPGs cannot play any other type of games whatsoever.
    Also implying that I didn't talk about MMORPG's, too. Don't even try, it's hopeless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That's not even my quote... Jesus man. I think you are a bit confused there, buddy.
    No, it's my ****ing quote which you responded to, like I said it was. Holy ****ing mackarel, what's wrong with you? xD

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Where did you come from? Here let me bring up to speed - I am talking about MMORPGs strictly and then all of a sudden some... misguided person... brings in examples that are about as much MMORPGs as a bloody Tetris.

    And you just pile on it, even further missing the point. Le sigh.

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    That's not even my quote... Jesus man. I think you are a bit confused there, buddy.
    I've been playing MMO's since they were just MUDs like gemstone. I've never seen WOW in such a state of disrepair. You can ignore it all you want, and pretend everything is gravy but the community is hemorrhaging players like never before and every post on youtube wow makers this expac is OVERWHELMINGLY voted down to the point they have to take them down and reupload them several times over. that' snever happened in the past.

    In the past, there's enough positivity with expacs to outweigh the negative. Not anymore.

    BFA is only good for people at the very top, and bottom tier. The vast majority of players in the middle in heroic/mythic are running away from BFA. Even worse, in previous expacs people would leave angry etc, but there was passion.

    Today, there's nothing but apathy which is FAR more dangerous than anger for a game because when people don't care they never come back

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    No, it's my ****ing quote which you responded to, like I said it was. Holy ****ing mackarel, what's wrong with you? xD
    Take a chill pill, buddy. I think you simply failed to understand the context of my words - WoW killed off all MMORPGs that were on the market when it came out. There were some more trying to replicate the success and almost all of them failed and either died or became super niche.

    The end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I've never seen WOW in such a state of disrepair
    So BfA is worse than WoD? OK... Can I laugh now or you want to add something?

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Take a chill pill, buddy. I think you simply failed to understand the context of my words - WoW killed off all MMORPGs that were on the market when it came out. There were some more trying to replicate the success and almost all of them failed and either died or became super niche.

    The end.
    You think I'm mad? I'm laughing hysterically. Trying to save face at by telling me to relax won't save you.

    You are correct that WoW dominated the MMORPG market during vanilla.

    I'm also correct in saying that it no longer does, and that exact equivalents to the games that WoW defeated all those ages ago have come back, and I am furthermore using this as evidence that World of Warcraft is not as dominant nor as good as it was when it came out, which is the position you're arguing against.

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    In the past, there's enough positivity with expacs to outweigh the negative.
    LOL... This one is the star of this thread. Nope, you had this cesspool forever, even in bloody Vanilla.

    That's why this thing is a thing:



    All this nonsense you say was said before you many many times for every expansion we had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    You think I'm mad? I'm laughing hysterically. Trying to save face at by telling me to relax won't save you.

    You are correct that WoW dominated the MMORPG market during vanilla.

    I'm also correct in saying that it no longer does, and that exact equivalents to the games that WoW defeated all those ages ago have come back, and I am furthermore using this as evidence that World of Warcraft is not as dominant nor as good as it was when it came out, which is the position you're arguing against.
    What evidence? WoW is still by far the largest western MMORPG there is. Neverwinter? Elder Scrolls? There are not even a bleep on WoW's map.

    The only thing that is legit is Final Fantasy and of course various Korean MMOs that are being a thing there. Heck, even Lineage is still pretty big there, I think.


    At any rate, the context was exactly what I said - Vanilla WoW was stellar for its time, but when I look at it with critical eye 14 years fast forward... boy did we play shit games back then, so once something that at least made sense and had a couple of good ideas executed right popped up it ended up being a smash hit. That's why this Vanilla glorification brings out a smirk on my lips, but thankfully this won't be a thing for much longer.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2019-03-15 at 02:28 PM.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I am clearly talking about MMOs, pal.

    I understand reading is not your strongest suit, but if you wipe that saliva for a moment and absorb the context, it may help.

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    I heard that line too. You know what? Let's play your hyperbole game for a moment.

    You genuinely want to tell me BfA is worse and more divisive than Borelords of Snorenor - an expansion that had absolute 0 casual content? Because fucking lol if you say yes. Please say yes, so I can laugh.

    Want to hear my take on things? BfA is considerably better than WoD and is better than Cata. That already makes it far from "omg worst most divisive expansion" and we're not even half xpack in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Take a chill pill, buddy. I think you simply failed to understand the context of my words - WoW killed off all MMORPGs that were on the market when it came out. There were some more trying to replicate the success and almost all of them failed and either died or became super niche.

    The end.

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    So BfA is worse than WoD? OK... Can I laugh now or you want to add something?
    You can laugh all you want but the game is in much worse shape today than WOD. People liked playing their classes at least in WoD vs today.

    I’m not one for hyperbole and never given credence to the sky is falling wow crowd... but there’s legitimacy here this time that you’re ignoring because your in your bubble.

    Wow has never been perceived as poorly from the players as it is in BfA. That’s why bfa has less population numbers than wod

    Legion was doing great people loved it. But bfa is too much bad for people to handle

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    You can laugh all you want but the game is in much worse shape today than WOD.
    Sorry, but I think you are out of whack here, totally. Like completely off base.

    But hey, I enjoyed WoD I give you that - I could login to raid and then not care about showing up until next raid at all because there was nothing to do outside that, so I'll give you that - it was super convenient... minus 14 months of HFC and such or was it 12?

    Totally better than BfA there.

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    BfA is not on Legion level, I give you that, but you totally need to stretch this whole shit HAAARD to even half-jokingly claim it is worse or is as bad as WoD.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    "preaching things"
    Listening to preach, let alone quoting him, doesn't really score you any points with anyone remotely intelligent. On the contrary.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post


    I think he's touching on a very important subject. With how the reward structure is set up right now it means that there's really no incentive for anyone to replay the content and progress their character after seeing the content, regardless of at what level you play the game it'll all be completely reset after 3 months anyway.

    Here's how I would fix it (spoiler: it's linear):





    • Normal/Heroic dungeons are removed, only mythic and mythic+ remain. They always drop the same iLvl loot regardless of it being a +1 or a +10, HOWEVER at the start of each reset you get a number of upgrade tokens based on your highest completed key with which you can upgrade the gear you got from the previous week to heroic raid quality. For example 1-6 could award you one token, 7-9 two tokens and 10+ three tokens.
    • Remove titanforging and instead reduce the amount of loot we get from various sources in order to make the things we do get feel more meaningful. In a perfect system you'd get all the gear you want from your raid difficulty of choice a couple of weeks before the next raid comes out (on average).
    • Valor points and honor points are re-added to the game and and have a cap that should net you one piece of gear per week (two pieces if you cap out both valor and honor). Honor vendors also sell upgrade tokens that cost as much as a piece of gear, you can use those to upgrade your gear to heroic raid item levels.

    These things ensure that you have a meaningful and rewarding progression path through gear that isn't instantly invalidated when a new season starts. The base dungeon gear increases every season, that's your catch-up method to get you in to normal raiding. There is no overlap in difficulties and with titanforging gone there's no reason to start off a new season by clearing or split running a difficulty that's trivial to you because of upgrades. Normal mode raiders continue progressing normal from day one, heroic raiders continue with heroic and so on.
    imho the best thing they could do is completely linear progression (like classic) BUT with tracking the account and when 1 or 2 (to be deterrmined whats ok) characters on that account have passed the linear progression (could be done by micro attunements like 1 quest in raid etc) the catchup machanics become available to all other characters of that account.

    its the only thing that wether hurt altoholics nor make progression path useless. and they have nearly nothing more to do than now. just the same but with some DB flags before the catchup gear levels get activated.

    they always said that it was a problem when raid groups could not fill up with characters and first have to carry a new member or alt of a membr through all the stuff. so they introduced catchups. they also said that its shitty that new players do not see all content.

    so, this solution solves all their problems. enough new players progress together. most new raid characters are alts because raid member got sick of class x or fotm stuff. and the low percentage of new players that have to speed up for a raid group could still be carried by that group (like in classic). but thats a samll percentage.

    low investment for blizzard. best of both worlds for players. never will get why they do not do this since... ever ?
    Last edited by Niwes; 2019-03-15 at 02:44 PM.

  16. #496
    Nothing is broken at all there are just many different ways to play the game now finally after all these years they finally got it right with BFA.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Sorry, but I think you are out of whack here, totally. Like completely off base.

    But hey, I enjoyed WoD I give you that - I could login to raid and then not care about showing up until next raid at all because there was nothing to do outside that, so I'll give you that - it was super convenient... minus 14 months of HFC and such or was it 12?

    Totally better than BfA there.

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    BfA is not on Legion level, I give you that, but you totally need to stretch this whole shit HAAARD to even half-jokingly claim it is worse or is as bad as WoD.
    Classes played better in WoD than today, especially due to the GCD changes, so they were more enjoyable to pilot. Your character is your vessel to the world and if he/she isn't as fun to play as expacs past, you won't have as much fun. The class changes from legion to BFA have been miserable across the board, and have chased A LOT of the player base away.

    WoD had a long content drought at the end that i won't excuse, and their garrison housing was the worst MMO housing i've ever seen (even old school runescape did it better 20 years prior) but it played better and the world was more connected.

    What's it matter if BFA has "more to do" if 90% of it is dull, boring AF, or not worth doing? You think anyone calls island expeditions or warfronts 'content'? No, they are not and anyone who says that are lying. Pet battles offer more variety of content than they do, ffs.

    It doesn't matter if BFA has 10x more content if NONE OF IT is worth doing fun or gear wise.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    why a solution? TF & WF helps casual & hardcore players motivated to replay content. it seems to be doing a fine job. Otherwise blizzard would have removed it a long time ago.

    If we assume that gear is less accessible, then the very same people whining gear is easy to get will whine that blizzard is timegating their content in terms of loot.
    I agree with Preach that mythic gear should still be relavant for the next raid instead of just being replaced during the first week in heroic. Warforging might keep you in raids but there is no real reason to farm it in relation to preparing for the next raid. I agree with Preach that it is a mistake.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2019-03-15 at 02:50 PM.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Pua View Post
    I've been playing video games, solidly, for just over 31 years. That's a significant amount to the overwhelming majority of posters here, but a bit less than a few who are a good chunk older.

    Neither me, nor any reasonable person, sticks with a game that's an 'endless monotonous grind'; this is because there has always been plenty of games to play, and games that you actually enjoy.

    As soon as someone tells me they played the entirety of Classic, but it was shit, is either utterly stupid, or simply lying.

    £30 for the game, and a tenner every month prior to The Burning Crusade, means a spunking of £260; and you spent it despite hating the game?

    Mhm.
    It doesnt work that way.

    For 2005, WoW was ambrosia, new graphics that looked good despite cartoonish, actual progress that wasnt ruined by reaching some level and then the usual Eastern MMO telling you "Alright, now grind the same mobs for 200h/level for the next 5 levels" and many similar things that other shitty MMOs had back then but WoW made better or didnt add at all.

    Also, we didnt know better.

    For someone that did 99% of Vanilla content (Didnt see 4 bosses in Naxx) i can safely say that my now 32 year old self considers that game a pile of steaming crap despite playing insanely in 2005-2007 for todays standards.

    Do i have insane memories from it ? Yes.

    Did i have fun? Yes.

    I also remember the shitty situations though, not only the good things.

    99% of Vanilla enjoyment was the freshness of the MMO genre, combine it with 250ms connections and shitty PCs, the end result is very skewed.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I completely agree with ypu in general.

    But I dont see calling someone a bad player as an offensive insult.
    Calling 99 % of the population "bad", regardless of it being insulting or not, is mainly the sign of being an idiot oneself and not understanding the whole definition of "bad".
    Hint : "average" means that you're in the bracket where about 50 % are worse and 50 % are better.

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