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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    You can laugh all you want but the game is in much worse shape today than WOD.
    Sorry, but I think you are out of whack here, totally. Like completely off base.

    But hey, I enjoyed WoD I give you that - I could login to raid and then not care about showing up until next raid at all because there was nothing to do outside that, so I'll give you that - it was super convenient... minus 14 months of HFC and such or was it 12?

    Totally better than BfA there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    BfA is not on Legion level, I give you that, but you totally need to stretch this whole shit HAAARD to even half-jokingly claim it is worse or is as bad as WoD.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    "preaching things"
    Listening to preach, let alone quoting him, doesn't really score you any points with anyone remotely intelligent. On the contrary.

  3. #503
    The Lightbringer Niwes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post


    I think he's touching on a very important subject. With how the reward structure is set up right now it means that there's really no incentive for anyone to replay the content and progress their character after seeing the content, regardless of at what level you play the game it'll all be completely reset after 3 months anyway.

    Here's how I would fix it (spoiler: it's linear):





    • Normal/Heroic dungeons are removed, only mythic and mythic+ remain. They always drop the same iLvl loot regardless of it being a +1 or a +10, HOWEVER at the start of each reset you get a number of upgrade tokens based on your highest completed key with which you can upgrade the gear you got from the previous week to heroic raid quality. For example 1-6 could award you one token, 7-9 two tokens and 10+ three tokens.
    • Remove titanforging and instead reduce the amount of loot we get from various sources in order to make the things we do get feel more meaningful. In a perfect system you'd get all the gear you want from your raid difficulty of choice a couple of weeks before the next raid comes out (on average).
    • Valor points and honor points are re-added to the game and and have a cap that should net you one piece of gear per week (two pieces if you cap out both valor and honor). Honor vendors also sell upgrade tokens that cost as much as a piece of gear, you can use those to upgrade your gear to heroic raid item levels.

    These things ensure that you have a meaningful and rewarding progression path through gear that isn't instantly invalidated when a new season starts. The base dungeon gear increases every season, that's your catch-up method to get you in to normal raiding. There is no overlap in difficulties and with titanforging gone there's no reason to start off a new season by clearing or split running a difficulty that's trivial to you because of upgrades. Normal mode raiders continue progressing normal from day one, heroic raiders continue with heroic and so on.
    imho the best thing they could do is completely linear progression (like classic) BUT with tracking the account and when 1 or 2 (to be deterrmined whats ok) characters on that account have passed the linear progression (could be done by micro attunements like 1 quest in raid etc) the catchup machanics become available to all other characters of that account.

    its the only thing that wether hurt altoholics nor make progression path useless. and they have nearly nothing more to do than now. just the same but with some DB flags before the catchup gear levels get activated.

    they always said that it was a problem when raid groups could not fill up with characters and first have to carry a new member or alt of a membr through all the stuff. so they introduced catchups. they also said that its shitty that new players do not see all content.

    so, this solution solves all their problems. enough new players progress together. most new raid characters are alts because raid member got sick of class x or fotm stuff. and the low percentage of new players that have to speed up for a raid group could still be carried by that group (like in classic). but thats a samll percentage.

    low investment for blizzard. best of both worlds for players. never will get why they do not do this since... ever ?
    Last edited by Niwes; 2019-03-15 at 02:44 PM.

  4. #504
    Nothing is broken at all there are just many different ways to play the game now finally after all these years they finally got it right with BFA.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Sorry, but I think you are out of whack here, totally. Like completely off base.

    But hey, I enjoyed WoD I give you that - I could login to raid and then not care about showing up until next raid at all because there was nothing to do outside that, so I'll give you that - it was super convenient... minus 14 months of HFC and such or was it 12?

    Totally better than BfA there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    BfA is not on Legion level, I give you that, but you totally need to stretch this whole shit HAAARD to even half-jokingly claim it is worse or is as bad as WoD.
    Classes played better in WoD than today, especially due to the GCD changes, so they were more enjoyable to pilot. Your character is your vessel to the world and if he/she isn't as fun to play as expacs past, you won't have as much fun. The class changes from legion to BFA have been miserable across the board, and have chased A LOT of the player base away.

    WoD had a long content drought at the end that i won't excuse, and their garrison housing was the worst MMO housing i've ever seen (even old school runescape did it better 20 years prior) but it played better and the world was more connected.

    What's it matter if BFA has "more to do" if 90% of it is dull, boring AF, or not worth doing? You think anyone calls island expeditions or warfronts 'content'? No, they are not and anyone who says that are lying. Pet battles offer more variety of content than they do, ffs.

    It doesn't matter if BFA has 10x more content if NONE OF IT is worth doing fun or gear wise.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    why a solution? TF & WF helps casual & hardcore players motivated to replay content. it seems to be doing a fine job. Otherwise blizzard would have removed it a long time ago.

    If we assume that gear is less accessible, then the very same people whining gear is easy to get will whine that blizzard is timegating their content in terms of loot.
    I agree with Preach that mythic gear should still be relavant for the next raid instead of just being replaced during the first week in heroic. Warforging might keep you in raids but there is no real reason to farm it in relation to preparing for the next raid. I agree with Preach that it is a mistake.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2019-03-15 at 02:50 PM.

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by Pua View Post
    I've been playing video games, solidly, for just over 31 years. That's a significant amount to the overwhelming majority of posters here, but a bit less than a few who are a good chunk older.

    Neither me, nor any reasonable person, sticks with a game that's an 'endless monotonous grind'; this is because there has always been plenty of games to play, and games that you actually enjoy.

    As soon as someone tells me they played the entirety of Classic, but it was shit, is either utterly stupid, or simply lying.

    £30 for the game, and a tenner every month prior to The Burning Crusade, means a spunking of £260; and you spent it despite hating the game?

    Mhm.
    It doesnt work that way.

    For 2005, WoW was ambrosia, new graphics that looked good despite cartoonish, actual progress that wasnt ruined by reaching some level and then the usual Eastern MMO telling you "Alright, now grind the same mobs for 200h/level for the next 5 levels" and many similar things that other shitty MMOs had back then but WoW made better or didnt add at all.

    Also, we didnt know better.

    For someone that did 99% of Vanilla content (Didnt see 4 bosses in Naxx) i can safely say that my now 32 year old self considers that game a pile of steaming crap despite playing insanely in 2005-2007 for todays standards.

    Do i have insane memories from it ? Yes.

    Did i have fun? Yes.

    I also remember the shitty situations though, not only the good things.

    99% of Vanilla enjoyment was the freshness of the MMO genre, combine it with 250ms connections and shitty PCs, the end result is very skewed.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I completely agree with ypu in general.

    But I dont see calling someone a bad player as an offensive insult.
    Calling 99 % of the population "bad", regardless of it being insulting or not, is mainly the sign of being an idiot oneself and not understanding the whole definition of "bad".
    Hint : "average" means that you're in the bracket where about 50 % are worse and 50 % are better.

  9. #509
    A serious question for the people who have 0 interest in classic wow (And that's fine, i won't knock you for it. different strokes and all)

    BFA is already going through a serious identity crisis, and hemorrhaging population. It's already perceived as the worst expac by far in WoW's long history.

    How do BFA players who want to stick around plan to cope with losing guildies, or returning players to Classic over BFA? What happens if classic overtakes BFA in population and maintains it? Will BFA just be written off or will you try to ride it out?

    I foresee quite a few guilds being broken because of classic wow's release this summer.

    Not being negative or pushing my opinion... just real talk. How do you plan to cope with Classic's release if you aren't interested, and what will you do if it ends up being much more popular than you anticipated (leaving BFA more empty?)

  10. #510
    Classic will be a fireball in a sky that will flash bright for a moment then vanish.

    All these storytellers predicting it will overtake live and what not are completely delusional, exactly because of what I said - Vanilla is a shit game in 2019.

    There will be some diehard community which will screech about how classic is the one true wow everywhere, like they do now, but that's it.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    A serious question for the people who have 0 interest in classic wow (And that's fine, i won't knock you for it. different strokes and all)

    BFA is already going through a serious identity crisis, and hemorrhaging population. It's already perceived as the worst expac by far in WoW's long history.

    How do BFA players who want to stick around plan to cope with losing guildies, or returning players to Classic over BFA? What happens if classic overtakes BFA in population and maintains it? Will BFA just be written off or will you try to ride it out?

    I foresee quite a few guilds being broken because of classic wow's release this summer.

    Not being negative or pushing my opinion... just real talk. How do you plan to cope with Classic's release if you aren't interested, and what will you do if it ends up being much more popular than you anticipated (leaving BFA more empty?)
    It wont because thats just being delusional.

    Out of the ~100 IRL people i met in my area that played WoW Vanilla with me or around me (Net cafes was and is a thing in Greece) only 2 showed interested in WoW classic.

    All of those are now between 28-40 years old.

    One is someone that was 10-12 years old and never got to keep up/play the game with the rest of us tryharders with Rank 14/Naxx clearing at the net cafe, and the second is one of the people that did a lot in Vanilla, Rank 14 and the rest and only cares for it because Gear > Anything and he wants to go back to being the best by 1 shotting everyone, not because "Vanilla is a good MMO".

    "Have you spoken to all those 100 people?" Nope, i spoken to about 50 of them or so after they heard about WoW Classic.

    Private servers are full because they are free, and full of people from countries with terrible salaries that really cant afford WoW, anyone that has played in one for 10 minutes knows this.

    I have a familiar that wasted 3 years of his life in a WoTLK private server doing the same thing over and over, 99% of the people he knows are Romanians/Ukraines/Russians and a mix of Slavs in the middle of nowhere in their countries.

    Same way how US private servers are full of South Americans.

    WoW Classic will see a massive influx of few people returning and BFA players leveling to 10 and going back to the next expansion that will come out.
    Last edited by potis; 2019-03-15 at 02:55 PM.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Calling 99 % of the population "bad", regardless of it being insulting or not, is mainly the sign of being an idiot oneself and not understanding the whole definition of "bad".
    Hint : "average" means that you're in the bracket where about 50 % are worse and 50 % are better.
    I dont base skill level on statistics. So I agree that if you’re dying to the same mechanics 20 times in a row (which a lot of “mythic raiders” do) then you’re pretty bad. If 99% of the playerbase do that then they are bad players.

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    It wont because thats just being delusional.

    Out of the ~100 IRL people i met in my area that played WoW Vanilla with me or around me (Net cafes was and is a thing in Greece) only 2 showed interested in WoW classic.

    All of those are now between 28-40 years old.

    One is someone that was 10-12 years old and never got to keep up/play the game and the second is one of the people that did a lot in Vanilla, Rank 14 and the rest and only cares for it because Gear > Anything and he wants to go back to being the best by 1 shotting everyone, not because "Vanilla is a good MMO".

    Private servers are full because they are free, and full of people from countries with terrible salaries.

    WoW Classic will see a massive influx of few people returning and BFA players leveling to 10 and going back to the next expansion that will come out.
    That's your own personal experience. Out of my giant group of WoW friends, i know 1 irl who has no interest in classic and about 5-10 in game that don't either. That leaves about 50+ of us (10 irl and 30+ guildies at least, maybe more) who have openly stated "I can't wait for classic instead of BFA".

    It may not be as popular as i think, but you dismissing it as nothing is a equally unlikely. Everyone i know interested in classic is 35+ years old and experienced it so we KNOW what we want. many of them, went back to older games like EQ rather than play BFA.

    So while your experience may be of "nah" mine is the opposite.

    So, again i ask, how will YOU Handle it if WOW classic cannibalizes BFA's remaining player base? Will you concede defeat and go to classic, or just keep on in BFA with a dwindling population?

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    That's your own personal experience. Out of my giant group of WoW friends, i know 1 irl who has no interest in classic and about 5-10 in game that don't either. That leaves about 50+ of us (10 irl and 30+ guildies at least, maybe more) who have openly stated "I can't wait for classic instead of BFA".

    It may not be as popular as i think, but you dismissing it as nothing is a equally unlikely. Everyone i know interested in classic is 35+ years old and experienced it so we KNOW what we want. many of them, went back to older games like EQ rather than play BFA.

    So while your experience may be of "nah" mine is the opposite.

    So, again i ask, how will YOU Handle it if WOW classic cannibalizes BFA's remaining player base? Will you concede defeat and go to classic, or just keep on in BFA with a dwindling population?
    Yeah, and you have how many hours to play exactly? Do you really expect your "35 guildies" to play a few hours per week to level in classic?

    You are gonna play 2 weeks, reach level 20 and then pop back to the active expansion as the majority, you are literally the prime example of nostalgia.

    Now, playing WoW Classic as a downtime between raids? I can accept that, playing only WoW Classic, then ye, good luck.

    Its irrelevant to me if WoW classic exists, i did everything there was to do when it was relevant, its a dead game for me, i want new raids, new bosses, i couldnt give a rats ass about old content.

    If WoW empties out then i will just go to the other games i play, Dota, PoE and whatever new might catch my interest.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Yeah, and you have how many hours to play exactly? Do you really expect your "35 guildies" to play a few hours per week to level in classic?

    You are gonna play 2 weeks, reach level 20 and then pop back to the active expansion as the majority, you are literally the prime example of nostalgia.

    Now, playing WoW Classic as a downtime between raids? I can accept that, playing only WoW Classic, then ye, good luck.

    Its irrelevant to me if WoW classic exists, i did everything there was to do when it was relevant, its a dead game for me, i want new raids, new bosses, i couldnt give a rats ass about old content.

    If WoW empties out then i will just go to the other games i play, Dota, PoE and whatever new might catch my interest.
    I have as much time to play as i want.

    I appreciate your answer though.

    That said, i can't wait for it and i remember it vividly as an older player, and it wasn't ANYTHING. I grew up on MMO's that were MUDs or EQ, where you could lose your gear and character that had 1000x more work than any vanilla wow player. Vanilla WOW was always a cake walk leveling even back then, but i enjoy the RPG mechanics of the game that is so sorely lacking from BFA.

    How you feel about Classic is how i feel about BFA currently. I don't enjoy where the game is going with more ARPG than MMORPG mechanics existing in game today. It's more diablo 3 than EQ1, and i prefer the older style of MMO tbh.

    To each their own, though. We can't wait for classic WoW, and the endgame is half the appeal. With a good RPG there's a beginning, a middle, and an end point. You'll actually have that gear end point in classic where your character can be complete, more or less.

    You'll never have that feeling in current WoW because the treadmill is meant to always keep you going full speed, but the irony is it means a LOT less to me than the older gear and triumphs.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I dont base skill level on statistics.

    So I agree that if you’re dying to the same mechanics 20 times in a row (which a lot of “mythic raiders” do) then you’re pretty bad. If 99% of the playerbase do that then they are bad players.
    Then you're wrong, because "bad" has no meaning outside an average. Which was the point I was making.

    If I tell you "someone running 100 m in 9,9 s is not fast", and you point to me that's actually very fast for a human and I answer "well, I don't base speed level on statistics, for me if you can't run the 100 in less than 9,7 you're slow and if you take more than 10 s you're a crippled grandma", am I right in my definition or am I a fucking idiot who is just trying to posture ?

    Also, a man measuring 2,10 m is not tall, a man weighting 500 Kg is not fat and a man benchpressing 250 Kg is not strong. Don't give me statistics, I'm a badass who is above that.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    So, again i ask, how will YOU Handle it if WOW classic cannibalizes BFA's remaining player base? Will you concede defeat and go to classic, or just keep on in BFA with a dwindling population?
    How will you handle alien invaders bombarding your city with lasers from flying saucers, HOW?

    Because that shit is about equal in chances of happening as Classic cannibalizing live is.

    But hey let's put their resolve to the test. Level 20 challenge!

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    How will you handle alien invaders bombarding your city with lasers from flying saucers, HOW?

    Because that shit is about equal in chances of happening as Classic cannibalizing live is.

    But hey let's put their resolve to the test. Level 20 challenge!
    Yawn. Wow classic leveling was always a walk in the park. I cut my teeth on older MMO's where it took MONTHS to level up a single time, and it had permadeath and full looting.

    WoW classic is easy and relaxing to level up in.

    And go ahead and keep dismissing classic WoW. i can't wait to see reactions when it's bigger than anticipated

  19. #519
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Then you're wrong, because "bad" has no meaning outside an average. Which was the point I was making.

    If I tell you "someone running 100 m in 9,9 s is not fast", and you point to me that's actually very fast for a human and I answer "well, I don't base speed level on statistics, for me if you can't run the 100 in less than 9,7 you're slow and if you take more than 10 s you're a crippled grandma", am I right in my definition or am I a fucking idiot who is just trying to posture ?

    Also, a man measuring 2,10 m is not tall, a man weighting 500 Kg is not fat and a man benchpressing 250 Kg is not strong. Don't give me statistics, I'm a badass who is above that.
    Yeah, but purposefully doing retarded math comparisons doesnt compare to WoW skill level statistics, because in your example you have 2 variables.

    WoW skill level has how many variables? DPS, Minimal Damage Taken, Interrupting, Offhealing at downtime,Cooldown tracking of other players to not fuck up and use yours, and lots more things.

    95% of WoW players cant do 4 things at the same time, and 99% of WoW players cant do 3 things at the same time.

    Which is why 99% of WoW players are terrible.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Yawn. Wow classic leveling was always a walk in the park. I cut my teeth on older MMO's where it took MONTHS to level up a single time, and it had permadeath and full looting.

    WoW classic is easy and relaxing to level up in.

    And go ahead and keep dismissing classic WoW. i can't wait to see reactions when it's bigger than anticipated
    Exactly, leveling was a yawn fest as much of Vanilla was. That's the essence of level 20 challenge, who will live through the boredom of it after the novelty wears off.

    I also can't wait for classic, exactly to have this bull about how it will kill BfA stop once and for all.

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