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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by lyphe View Post
    Keep telling yourself that all the way to the mmo graveyard.

    It was safe to say that when there were enough new ppl coming in to support your comment, but the problem now is you've lost enough people like me that the game is in a death spiral. The game was healthiest when you had loyal and nostalgic players like me. The real problem came to life when Blizz started chasing people like you instead. And that is the reason Wow is where it is today.

    So enjoy your victory. You won the fist fight, but unfortunately you did so while standing on the deck of the Titanic.
    You have no proof this is the reason and please don't cut yourself on all that edge. The game was healthy because more people were coming in than leaving despite most not even reaching max level or quitting before. Every genre stagnants or gets oversaturated with competition. blaming the games decline on a singular reason is immature.

    Arena shooters, Mobas, and Rts have all decline or been overstaturated wow isn't a unique case study. I do agree that blizzard mades mistakes but I doubt wow we'll ever return to 12 million players.

    I think wow pvp died because of how team based it's gotten lately. There are literally hundreds of reason wow is in decline lol. I think the biggest is overall class designed and they should just revert classes back to mop than work from there instead of continuing this shitshow.

    Battle Royals we'll face the same problem wow is having it just a matter of time.
    Last edited by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen; 2019-03-15 at 06:33 PM.
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  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Calling 99 % of the population "bad", regardless of it being insulting or not, is mainly the sign of being an idiot oneself and not understanding the whole definition of "bad".
    Hint : "average" means that you're in the bracket where about 50 % are worse and 50 % are better.
    That's not true, at all. Let's talk non normal distribution, if you're average you'd have way less than 50% of a population ahead of you.

    Shitty hint lol.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by lyphe View Post
    The game was healthiest when you had loyal and nostalgic players like me.
    This is based on the assumption that during that time, all people were loyal and nostalgic players like you, which is rather false.

    There were more players back then, but no one outside of Blizzard knows the what these players were doing. Were they long terms players or just short term players.

    What were the turn over rate in the players rate? How many new accounts created vs accounts closed? We do not know. Blizzard did say WoW had 100 million accounts. If this is the number of active accounts, which is probable since free-to-20 did not arrive until much later and I find it hard to accept that there were a sudden surge of these accounts. That is quite a lot of accounts which means WoW always had a high turn over rate. The difference now is that there less new players coming in to offset the old players leaving.

    Quote Originally Posted by lyphe View Post
    The real problem came to life when Blizz started chasing people like you instead. And that is the reason Wow is where it is today.
    And if Blizzard cater to people like you would it be better now? We do not know. Blizzard is a company. They did not cater to you maybe because you are a minority group and that it was a business decision.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Razzako View Post
    That's not true, at all. Let's talk non normal distribution, if you're average you'd have way less than 50% of a population ahead of you.

    Shitty hint lol.
    Or the opposite and you'll have way MORE than 50 % of the population ahead of you, as "non normal distribution" doesn't mean the outliers are necessarily in the upper part. You'd also would need to explain why the distribution is non-normal to begin with. And overall it would require to play dumb about what "average" means in common parlance.
    Seems to me it's not my hint which is shitty, but rather the amount of grasping at straws that some guys in this thread are intend to do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    This is based on the assumption that during that time, all people were loyal and nostalgic players like you, which is rather false.

    There were more players back then, but no one outside of Blizzard knows the what these players were doing. Were they long terms players or just short term players.

    What were the turn over rate in the players rate? How many new accounts created vs accounts closed? We do not know. Blizzard did say WoW had 100 million accounts. If this is the number of active accounts, which is probable since free-to-20 did not arrive until much later and I find it hard to accept that there were a sudden surge of these accounts. That is quite a lot of accounts which means WoW always had a high turn over rate. The difference now is that there less new players coming in to offset the old players leaving.
    Well, TBH, Blizzard itself said that less than 30 % of players went above lvl 10. This "100 millions" accounts as proof of high-turn-over doesn't ring very meaningful to me, as people leaving before lvl 10 were most probably much more in the "simply not interested in the game to begin with" category than in the "ended up losing interest in the game".

    If we consider only people leveling above 10 (which, frankly, still isn't a sign of a deep interest in the game in itself), we get a much higher retention rate, especially for early WoW.
    Last edited by Akka; 2019-03-15 at 08:00 PM.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Those aren't good incentives, you're really reaching for straws here IMHO. The same gear as LFR, Norm, Heroic, but with a few extra stats is not incentive.

    Imagine if a single LEGENDARY dropped each tier in this expac, and ONLY from the last boss of mythic. Or if the mounts only dropped in mythic. or if mythic had an entirely separate wing that only was for mythic. etc.

    You know, UNIQUE content and rewards that aren't meaningless titles.

    Old WoW had flaws, but there was more meaning in each item you wore than everything i've earned in BFA combined. Legion even did it significantly better.

    I've never walked away from WoW before, until BFA. I've driven 3000 miles to go to a blizzcon or 2, i've even got Murky ffs.

    I just don't enjoy the new ARPG style of WoW. It's my personal preference. Those incentives are not enough for me to justify the jump in effort/time.
    Exactly my point, as I said, maybe this game is just not for you and Preach. It is for me though. I don't do heroic more than once in the first week and once more in the second one for some starter gear, so content feels fresh to me when I do mythic mate.

    Maybe you are just tired of the game, but I can't remember any time in its history that it was more fun.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    the problem is not with gear itself. the problem is with top 0.1% guilds doing split runs heroic rendering mythic gear useless to them.
    But even without split runs you will still replace all gear in 3 weeks max. So the incentive to farm for months for gear you’re not really going to benefit of is not very large. I’m not doing split runs, but I know that the gear I get now is not really going to help me in the next tier so I’m not going to put in a lot of time and effort to get it.

  7. #547
    The Lightbringer City Pop's Avatar
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    I agree with Preach. That said, I'm of his mindset that games need frequent challenges and self improvement to be fun, at least for more than a few hours. I don't really understand the warfronts and old raid farming crowd, but I know they're a big demographic as well. I unsubbed from BFA back in October. The contents of his video are certainly one reason for why I unsubbed, but I would still add on the lame class design and numerous other lazy additions in this expansion.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Soluna View Post
    Exactly my point, as I said, maybe this game is just not for you and Preach. It is for me though. I don't do heroic more than once in the first week and once more in the second one for some starter gear, so content feels fresh to me when I do mythic mate.

    Maybe you are just tired of the game, but I can't remember any time in its history that it was more fun.
    And that's totally acceptable. I don't understand this huge animosity between classic and current WoW players. If anything, we share a unique bond over WoW amongst gamers.

    There's room for both current, and classic to co-exist and thrive IMHO. I don't hate BFA, but i just accept that the current direction of WoW isn't for me... it doesn't mean it's bad. Hell, i compare current WoW to Diablo 3 but i LIKE Diablo 3. I don't dislike BFA, i just wish the reward structure was a bit more.... TBC. I enjoy going from A to B, B to C, etc... not running A on 3-4 different settings until i can speed run it.

    But some people do, some of my RL friends do. To each their own, and i hope people who enjoy BFA continue to. I love WOW, after all. Good and bad.

  9. #549
    Preach is one horrible salty hypocrite that still plays WoW because it's probably his main source of income. He feeds off of negativity.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Or the opposite and you'll have way MORE than 50 % of the population ahead of you, as "non normal distribution" doesn't mean the outliers are necessarily in the upper part. You'd also would need to explain why the distribution is non-normal to begin with. And overall it would require to play dumb about what "average" means in common parlance.
    Seems to me it's not my hint which is shitty, but rather the amount of grasping at straws that some guys in this thread are intend to do.
    I never stated otherwise, read calmly. I also don't need to explain anything else to convey that your definition of average is wrong, non normal distribution literally means any distribution except a non normal distribution. As I said, your hint is wrong, get over it and learn to phrase yourself better - also read some statistics. Average is simply the mean in a set of numbers, not the dumb "'average' means that you're in the bracket where about 50 % are worse and 50 % are better." statement you made while trying to sound smart lmfao.

  11. #551
    High Overlord Mightytasty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raysz View Post
    Preach is one horrible salty hypocrite that still plays WoW because it's probably his main source of income. He feeds off of negativity.
    He is one of the more positive WoW content creators. It’s not like he shits on the game like Asmongold. Even Tal & evitel have critiques of BfA.

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    And that's totally acceptable. I don't understand this huge animosity between classic and current WoW players. If anything, we share a unique bond over WoW amongst gamers.

    There's room for both current, and classic to co-exist and thrive IMHO. I don't hate BFA, but i just accept that the current direction of WoW isn't for me... it doesn't mean it's bad. Hell, i compare current WoW to Diablo 3 but i LIKE Diablo 3. I don't dislike BFA, i just wish the reward structure was a bit more.... TBC. I enjoy going from A to B, B to C, etc... not running A on 3-4 different settings until i can speed run it.

    But some people do, some of my RL friends do. To each their own, and i hope people who enjoy BFA continue to. I love WOW, after all. Good and bad.
    Man, you must be the first person I see who doesn't like BfA, but is not an ass about it. This feels good, as I am okay with ppl who like WoW classic also. I'd rather we both just accept that each of us have a different like and dislike over what's better for WoW, and simply shake hands, like you said. Amen brother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    He is one of the more positive WoW content creators. It’s not like he shits on the game like Asmongold. Even Tal & evitel have critiques of BfA.
    I think that Taliesin and Evitel are some of my favourite WoW content creators, because they are legit fun and they don't shit on the game like Asmongoloid or Preacheroo. Asmongold hasn't even done any proper content in BfA, he's just been carried left and right, yet he says the game isn't fun. Well tough news, if you do nothing, without a community, it's kinda hard to like the game. I won't take his opinion as legit when he hasn't tried more than 10% of what BfA has to offer really.

  13. #553
    High Overlord Mightytasty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soluna View Post
    Man, you must be the first person I see who doesn't like BfA, but is not an ass about it. This feels good, as I am okay with ppl who like WoW classic also. I'd rather we both just accept that each of us have a different like and dislike over what's better for WoW, and simply shake hands, like you said. Amen brother.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think that Taliesin and Evitel are some of my favourite WoW content creators, because they are legit fun and they don't shit on the game like Asmongoloid or Preacheroo. Asmongold hasn't even done any proper content in BfA, he's just been carried left and right, yet he says the game isn't fun. Well tough news, if you do nothing, without a community, it's kinda hard to like the game. I won't take his opinion as legit when he hasn't tried more than 10% of what BfA has to offer really.
    Realize that streamers like Asmongold and Preach are more active with the WoW community than Tal & Evitel (who just started streaming), and that the majority of the community does not like BfA as much as Legion. Your critique of Asmon is strange by the way. Saying he can’t critique the game because he doesn’t play it... well why would he play content that he (and his audience) doesn’t like? He has gone on record saying that streaming actual BfA content pulls less viewers than hosting his own community events and competitions. Nobody wants to watch Islands or Warfronts lol

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    That doesn't work for Mythic guilds. They can't just pick up and go at patch drops. They have to maintain from patch to patch. If no one cares to keep playing, it's a major problem.

    It is worse than ever this expac. The gear treadmill is absolutely broken. People think "i've killed it heroic, i'm done here" and log til next patch because there is NO POINT other than pride and friendship, to suffer through MONTHS of Mythic only for the gear to be trivialized next patch. Or to see someone in normal/heroic decked out in wf/tf that rivals there's, despite 1/10th the effort.

    It's become a "Why bother?" moment this expac for mythic raiding, and even heroic raiding.

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    That's why BFA is doing SO WELL right now, amirite?!

    It's why BFA is largely voted the worst expac on EVERY SINGLE POLL on the internet, right?

    It's why mythic raiding is dead this expac and can't be saved.

    You probably have never even cleared a mythic raid. I doubt even a heroic.

    Preach's opinion here has more value than 1000x opinions like yours. The game is dying, and it hurts us fans to see, and it's partly/mostly because of the gear treadmill being broken, no rpg mechanics left, and how WoW is basically WoW: Diablo 3 edition. It has more in common than D3 than vanilla WoW
    This pretty much sums it up. I quit playing simply because of gear and what it takes to acquire it. Went deeper for me with all of the earlier azerite balancing crap that went on. I simply didn’t have enough time to continuously farm gear outside of raiding in a mythic guild. BIS pieces come from all over the place now. I know it was much simpler back when, but knowing that your BIS gear comes from high level mythic raiding was much better for someone like me.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    If we consider only people leveling above 10 (which, frankly, still isn't a sign of a deep interest in the game in itself), we get a much higher retention rate, especially for early WoW.
    Do we? How? Taking the 30%, that is 30 millions accounts spread over the life of WoW upto now. Why would the retention rate be higher back then? Again we do not. People are using data without the full picture.

    If the remaining 70% happened in the early life of wow, then according to you, it was they was not interested.

    If the remaining 70% happened later stages, would that also ring true or would others uses that indication WoW has lost its magic because it did not suffer the same retention rate?

    We do not know so we should be careful how to interpret that data. People point to WoTLK as the peak and post WoTLk started the decline. Some would say that was went Blizzard started to lose their direction. Or maybe people reached max level and decided to stop because they had no interest in raiding. Even if they were, they had to find the right fit with a guild which is a hit and miss affair.

    Blizzard did mentioned the raiding portion of the player was very low, single digit. Which is why we have LFR and also various difficulties today. if raiding were fine back then, we would not seen so many changes to the raiding format.

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by Pua View Post
    So bad, it started your fifteen years of playing?

    Riiiiight.
    I enjoy the MMO typical grind game, thats why I play this game in the first place.

    You see manyf BfA players complain about the AP-grind/gear grind/rep grind/etc. - we are talking about a few hours of playtime needed, while absolutely fine with WoW classic and its grind measured in many weeks/months for basicly everything. I get the shifted view from new LEGION / BfA players who enjoyed maybe the full expansion, with every patch within 10-15 days of /played time. What is that in classic time? just fresh at max level, not even 1/3 of the time spend for pre-raid-gear while seeing basicly nothing from the game. And that was the true CASUAL part of WoW, the leveling time and the easy questing.

    I just don't get the hype for classic, because the majority of complains about the current game are astronomical worse in the old grind game.
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  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    Realize that streamers like Asmongold and Preach are more active with the WoW community than Tal & Evitel (who just started streaming), and that the majority of the community does not like BfA as much as Legion. Your critique of Asmon is strange by the way. Saying he can’t critique the game because he doesn’t play it... well why would he play content that he (and his audience) doesn’t like? He has gone on record saying that streaming actual BfA content pulls less viewers than hosting his own community events and competitions. Nobody wants to watch Islands or Warfronts lol
    I am sorry but no one wants to watch literally any kind of new content that much. It's not like Asmon is this legendary and amazing player who viewers will swarm over for capping his m+10 for the week doing 10k dps. He is just a guy with enough time to farm everything in the game, and that has earned him some sort of acknowledgement from the community. Do you think I'd watch anyone play any kinda of WoW content outside the mythic world first race? Not really, even if the expansion was Wotlk, MoP, TBC, etc. Because rpgs are meant to be played, not watched. These fun events like transmog/mount contests will of course gain more attention.

    And well, yes, you cannot make a proper review of a game unless you play it yourself. This is the reason reviewers get an early copy of the game of all kinds of games, and then make a review that is proper and constructive about the game. All Asmongold says is 'Oh look how they ruined muh boi, remember the days back then when we were doing world quests, but they were called daily quests? Remember when we were grinding for currency from dungeons, when now we grind dungeons for actual drops? Remember when raid loot used to matter? Oh wait, it does now too. Remember when patches weren't timegated? Oh wait, even as far back as wotlk, argent tournament was a daily timegate.' No matter the comparison, I think that BfA is the same as all other expansions. Sure, some classes and the gcd change, master loot change, and no gear swap in dungeons are ass, but I can think of plenty 'ass' features in vanilla, wotlk, tbc, etc.

    I am not wearing muh rose tinted glasses.

  18. #558
    The whole reward structure is flawed. They need to take a step back. Stop the epic shower. But we know they can't just do that, they worked so hard to prop up this titanforge 'engagement' bullshit excuse for a system.
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  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Soluna View Post
    I am sorry but no one wants to watch literally any kind of new content that much. It's not like Asmon is this legendary and amazing player who viewers will swarm over for capping his m+10 for the week doing 10k dps. He is just a guy with enough time to farm everything in the game, and that has earned him some sort of acknowledgement from the community. Do you think I'd watch anyone play any kinda of WoW content outside the mythic world first race? Not really, even if the expansion was Wotlk, MoP, TBC, etc. Because rpgs are meant to be played, not watched. These fun events like transmog/mount contests will of course gain more attention.

    And well, yes, you cannot make a proper review of a game unless you play it yourself. This is the reason reviewers get an early copy of the game of all kinds of games, and then make a review that is proper and constructive about the game. All Asmongold says is 'Oh look how they ruined muh boi, remember the days back then when we were doing world quests, but they were called daily quests? Remember when we were grinding for currency from dungeons, when now we grind dungeons for actual drops? Remember when raid loot used to matter? Oh wait, it does now too. Remember when patches weren't timegated? Oh wait, even as far back as wotlk, argent tournament was a daily timegate.' No matter the comparison, I think that BfA is the same as all other expansions. Sure, some classes and the gcd change, master loot change, and no gear swap in dungeons are ass, but I can think of plenty 'ass' features in vanilla, wotlk, tbc, etc.

    I am not wearing muh rose tinted glasses.
    Hm i for example completly dont get the phenomenon of Twitch . I mean what fun is to watch someone other playing game instead playing it yourself ? The only thing i understand if they stream championships of games like LOL with nice proffesional coverage. But average / good playera like asmongoloid ? It eludes me.

  20. #560
    So if your a Mythic raider, everything in the game is useless to you because Heroic/Mythic gear > all.

    Aka Warlords of Draenor where all we did was log in once a week to raid then log back off because everything outside of raiding was useless

    Pass ...
    Last edited by Raone; 2019-03-16 at 06:49 AM.

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