Preach on the broken gear treadmill

[justandulas]

And how was Legion different in that regard to BfA? You had class specific sets.... and?

Right, there was practically only hideously numerical broken set bonuses and trinkets, esp. when used in M+. There's a reason why virtually all trinkets now split their damage between targets hit.

If you want to argue with a broken gear dreadmill, you have to argue starting when it was broken, and that was Legion. Yet people didn't leave in legion.
People are leaving because: Classes are boring, the systemw which replaced artifacts, setbonuses, and legendaries is boring, warfront and islands are mostly boring.

Legion did a much better job as disguising their flaws at the high end. M+ we’re faster and more fun. Legendarys made you feel powerful. Artifact weapons completed some classes and now have gaping holes in gameplay, etc

Legion had some of wows best gameplay in terms of class design and how fast/fun they play. So it’s easy to forgive its flaws when it does so much right.

Bfa on the other hand, takes none of the good with legion and just kept the worst of it.

[justandulas]

I mean I'm not going to go through and find each and every thread about him here, do a search function here if you must. They are often made here trust me it shouldn't be a hard find lol. Looking at his videos on his channel I can find several negative videos about BFA right off the bat. Granted BFA isn't exactly WoW's best expansion to date, and I guess when your youtube career is solely about WoW, it's bound to happen.

Fair enough he is nothing like the heelvsbabyface guy, but I would call Preach the 'diet coke' version of heel. Bellular and Taeliesan (idk how to say his name) are the main 2 I would say that are positive about WoW more than others.

Preach is very positive about wow. He isn’t the heelvsbabyface type. If he’s bashing wow; wow deserves it.

Taelieson are too positive like they are in denial and always look like they just did serious drugsbefofe airing.

Preach and bellular are the two most honest wow coverage guys. They cover the bad but are overly positive about it.

[kamuimac]

I'm happy M+ is here for the most casual crowd to get gear too as i want everyone to have fun in WoW, but their design philosophy is incredibly broken and discouraging people from raiding in BFA.

Raiding has never been in a worse place attendance and interest wise than BFA. Big WoW streamers are having to cut off their stream and pull off more viewers by just talking.

M+ has basically deemed high end raiding as irrelevant and a monumental waste of time.

If Mythic raids had bosses, gear, and wings that were ONLY on mythic, or say, dropped the legendary of the expac ONLY on mythic... then no one would complain

But there's no incentive for a player who's cleared heroic to suffer through months of Mythic grinding/wipes other than the kindness of their heart and friendship.

My WoW guild has been raiding since vanilla, no BS. It's a tight knit group that's been together through good, bad and ugly expacs. BFA has basically killed our Mythic raid team and, even myself as the MT, stepped down because mythic raiding is just too pointless currently for the time investment.

If i raid mythic, i want to be able to show off to other players that my dude > their character, and all we have to show for it now is a different color scheme and +10 stats. Even the azerite gear is BORING because it's the same traits we've had all expac. They can't even take the time to design entirely new ones.

BFA is doing quite a bit right for the casual player, and its great they have realistic avenues to gear up on... but blizz has left the high end player and the mid tier mythic guilds high and dry in BFA. No point at all other than challenge and friendship. The rewards have never been more insignificant when it comes to high end wow raiding.

good.

raiding has been negatively influencing game from veyr beggining culminated in WoD when there was literaly nothing to do but raid.

if they put more focus on dungeons since very beggining game would be much better over all those years.

[justandulas]

good.

raiding has been negatively influencing game from veyr beggining culminated in WoD when there was literaly nothing to do but raid.

if they put more focus on dungeons since very beggining game would be much better over all those years.

Raiding is the only thing that’s kept wow relevant for the last decade+

Wow doesn’t have great gameplay. There’s not great depth. Not tons of classes. No rpg elements left. No mmorpg elements left.

Without raiding, wow has nothing of value because the story telling isn’t exactly good either

[Gaidax]

My entire point flew right over your head just so you can strum up your ego again in this thread. No offense, but you’re in a wow bubble and can’t or won’t see what’s happening outside of your bubble.

Mythic raiding and raiding in general WAS a big draw of WoW. It’s why I stayed all these years.

Raiding now though, has been made irrelevant and just another activity rather than the end game of the end game.

No one wants to do the same bosses on 4-5 difficulties, we want to have to beat dungeon A to get to B, B to c, etc. there’s no rpg or mmo ladder anymore and that’s a key element of the puzzle.

That's just nonsense, because again it is nothing new AT ALL. You keep preaching (*honk*) your bull about how BfA apparently is so different in this regard, but in reality it's not, that's why I think you and your patron saint Preach are so full of shit.

BfA has its issues, but raiding ain't one of them.


Maybe you and he are overly salty about casuals getting some love, but that you both will get over.

[justandulas]

That's just nonsense, because again it is nothing new AT ALL. You keep preaching (*honk*) your bull about how BfA apparently is so different in this regard, but in reality it's not, that's why I think you and your patron saint Preach are so full of shit.

BfA has its issues, but raiding ain't one of them.


Maybe you and he are overly salty about casuals getting some love, but that you both will get over this.

You really need to get out of your bubble and off your high horse, because not one thing you said was Correct.

I’m happy for casuals, not a diehard preach fan, raiding is fubar atm, and none of these problems that existed in the past are as bad as they are now

Raiding had issues in the past because most players don’t care to raid, but raiding has never been dead like in BfA.

Again, climb out of your bubble and spend a few hours on reddit and the wow forums reading stories that aren’t your own.

I’m happy for the casuals, and don’t want them left out, but this is just half ass lazy game design.

Destiny 2 has better raid structures and rewards. DESTiNY 2. Let that sink in

[Gaidax]

You are just a sad broken record, cupcake. That's all I can tell you.

[justandulas]

You are just a sad broken record, cupcake. That's all I can tell you.

Right back at you, kid. When you grow up, maybe you’ll understand the world doesn’t revolve around you and that you aren’t always right. This being one of those times.

Maybe sit this one out and let the adults discuss this and be able to agree to disagree. You are one of the very few bringing toxicity and insults to this thread for days now.

[Gaidax]

Right back at you, kid. When you grow up, maybe you’ll understand the world doesn’t revolve around you and that you aren’t always right. This being one of those times.

Maybe sit this one out and let the adults discuss this and be able to agree to disagree. You are one of the very few bringing toxicity and insults to this thread for days now.

I'm 34 and play this game for 14 years, I seen forum warriors like you come and go on the constant basis. WoW was "bad and dead" long before you started screeching about it here, desperately clinging to opinions of shady-ass e-personalities doing this shit because it's their work and bread-winning scheme.

You will go, others will come, they will screech too and go and so on and so forth. It's a constant WoW cycle and you are nothing special in it, just a passing flash of usual "WoW became bad" bull.

[Ringthane]

You are one of the very few bringing toxicity and insults to this thread for days now.

My entire point flew right over your head just so you can strum up your ego again in this thread.

You really need to get out of your bubble and off your high horse,

When you grow up, maybe you’ll understand the world doesn’t revolve around you and that you aren’t always right.

You are one of the very few bringing toxicity and insults to this thread for days now.

And just to cover things when the mods infract me and not anyone else, because that seems to be all they're capable of nowadays, make up your own minds about the game, people. Don't go by what some mouthbreathing, bottom-feeding, one step away from public access loudmouth burped out between bags of pork rinds this week.

[justandulas]

I'm 34 and play this game for 14 years, I seen forum warriors like you come and go on the constant basis. WoW was "bad and dead" long before you started screeching about it here, desperately clinging to opinions of shady-ass e-personalities doing this shit because it's their work and bread-winning scheme.

You will go, others will come, they will screech too and go and so on and so forth. It's a constant WoW cycle and you are nothing special in it, just a passing flash of usual "WoW became bad" bull.

I have save files older than you, so lets not try and pull your imaginary rank and stroke your ALREADY out of control ego that refuses to see that others have differing opinions. I know, that's hard to understand.

If you are 34, grow up. I've seen 14 year olds show more mental maturity. AGREE TO DISAGREE. You understand what that means, don't you? Or do you wanna just keep preaching to the world that everyone is wrong but you and that BFA is the best of WoW so far?

You can keep on being delusional, and i hope you enjoy it, but NUMBERS DON'T LIE unlike people caught in their bubble. The amount of people raiding, playing, and watching BFA is SIGNIFICANTLY less than at ANY point in WoW's history. It's undeniable.

As for who's been here longer, i've got a murky pet because i've driven to blizzcon 3000 miles several times. Where's your WoW commitment like that? I've seen players come and go like you for longer than WoW's been alive through MUDs and EQ. You aren't special at all, so get over yourself kid.

As for the "Wow became bad" i've seen it 100x before too, but BFA is different. If you can't see that, then you are unable to be helped because your head is in the sand. I can love a game and STILL CALL IT OUT when it makes major mistakes. I don't have to drink the kool-aid of "Everything wow does is great, and it's you if you don't like it" like you do.

In short, get over yourself because you aren't as old, smart, mature, or as good of a player as you THINK you are. we're done now and i won't be responding to your 14 year old maturity again until you act like an ADULT and can have discussions without derailing the thread, stroking your falsely placed ego, or by bashing those who disagree. There's no room for people like you who insult and derail threads.

[ping-pong]

My entire point flew right over your head just so you can strum up your ego again in this thread. No offense, but you’re in a wow bubble and can’t or won’t see what’s happening outside of your bubble.

Mythic raiding and raiding in general WAS a big draw of WoW. It’s why I stayed all these years.

Raiding now though, has been made irrelevant and just another activity rather than the end game of the end game.

No one wants to do the same bosses on 4-5 difficulties, we want to have to beat dungeon A to get to B, B to c, etc. there’s no rpg or mmo ladder anymore and that’s a key element of the puzzle.

Why the hell do you need to play on 4-5 difficulties? You say you're a mythic raider, this means you have stepped in hc and mythic. Normal maaaaaaybe a boss or two for a trinket, but as a mythic raider you do normal while choosing youtube playlist or answering texts.

You also complain about not being shiny enough to showoff your mythic skill. Just link your cutting edge in general and you have that "awe" effect you're searching for... or not.

Mythic raiding may be bad and dead for you, but it's not the universal opinion. A lot of us who have mythic on farm enjoy gearing alts while trying different comps and strats, enjoy bitching and screwing with eachother about logs and pushing m+ keys.

You have to understand that your opinion is not the universal truth. Take a break if you need it, but don't talk about the game being bad when there's a shitton of people who enjoy it, and enjoy the very aspects you say are destroying it.

[RobertMugabe]

Preach and other shitters like him simply make a score off unwashed massed with their "revelations" and these said masses swallow it all hook line and sinker.

1. He doesn't earn any revenue through his videos.
2. You're just a hater. I don't always agree with hin, but at least he's always very reasonable and explains it very well why he is happy or unhappy with something. Constructive criticism and feedback != shitting on the game for views.

[justandulas]

Why the hell do you need to play on 4-5 difficulties? You say you're a mythic raider, this means you have stepped in hc and mythic. Normal maaaaaaybe a boss or two for a trinket, but as a mythic raider you do normal while choosing youtube playlist or answering texts.

You also complain about not being shiny enough to showoff your mythic skill. Just link your cutting edge in general and you have that "awe" effect you're searching for... or not.

Mythic raiding may be bad and dead for you, but it's not the universal opinion. A lot of us who have mythic on farm enjoy gearing alts while trying different comps and strats, enjoy bitching and screwing with eachother about logs and pushing m+ keys.

You have to understand that your opinion is not the universal truth. Take a break if you need it, but don't talk about the game being bad when there's a shitton of people who enjoy it, and enjoy the very aspects you say are destroying it.

Achievements aren't enough. I want/need more than just a blank achievement that means nothing. I want better game design for it. A wing of the raid that's ONLY mythic. MYTHIC ONLY bosses. Legendary's that ONLY drop on mythic. etc.

There isn't enough incentive for me to raid mythic this time around (where as i never had that problem before)

I've never discouraged others from enjoying it though, and hope you and everyone else does! It just isn't for me under this newer design, and that's perfectly OK.

We can agree to disagree like gentlemen

EDIT: And i will say that the raid itself (BoD) is excellent. a truly fun, top tier raid. It's the raid/reward structure of BFA that bothers me too much to continue on, not the raid itself.

[ping-pong]

Achievements aren't enough. I want/need more than just a blank achievement that means nothing. I want better game design for it. A wing of the raid that's ONLY mythic. MYTHIC ONLY bosses. Legendary's that ONLY drop on mythic. etc.

There isn't enough incentive for me to raid mythic this time around (where as i never had that problem before)

I've never discouraged others from enjoying it though, and hope you and everyone else does! It just isn't for me under this newer design, and that's perfectly OK.

We can agree to disagree like gentlemen

EDIT: And i will say that the raid itself (BoD) is excellent. a truly fun, top tier raid. It's the raid/reward structure of BFA that bothers me too much to continue on, not the raid itself.

You may have burned yourself out or feel stressed with other things in life and projecting it in wow. I've seen it happen a lot of times in my guilds throughout time (in most expansions). People then usually take a break and come back when all is good and often see that things weren't nearly so dark as they perceived them. It's a matter of perspective really, but general rule is if it's not fun for you, take a break, come back fresh and stronger

Btw, it's a lot harder to have a 99-100% log then to have any mythic item. If you want recognition and huge respect, go towards such logs. Also, participate in discords and show knowledge. Any decent gold farmer can have full mythic gear, and it's been like that for quite some expansions. Hell, we've once boosted a guy who doesn't raid, he exclusively plays ah and does gathering/crafting. Never set foot in LFR/normal/hc. He had gold for many runs and he was close to full mythic gear. Inspecting his gear you'd think "wow, what a badass top-tier raider". Checking his logs would give you another opinion

[justandulas]

You may have burned yourself out or feel stressed with other things in life and projecting it in wow. I've seen it happen a lot of times in my guilds throughout time (in most expansions). People then usually take a break and come back when all is good and often see that things weren't nearly so dark as they perceived them. It's a matter of perspective really, but general rule is if it's not fun for you, take a break, come back fresh and stronger

Btw, it's a lot harder to have a 99-100% log then to have any mythic item. If you want recognition and huge respect, go towards such logs. Also, participate in discords and show knowledge. Any decent gold farmer can have full mythic gear, and it's been like that for quite some expansions. Hell, we've once boosted a guy who doesn't raid, he exclusively plays ah and does gathering/crafting. Never set foot in LFR/normal/hc. He had gold for many runs and he was close to full mythic gear. Inspecting his gear you'd think "wow, what a badass top-tier raider". Checking his logs would give you another opinion

I appreciate the positivity and advice

I know what you mean about being burnt out, but BFA feels different for me. The reward structure is broken to me.

I've got several 95-99% parses as a MT both in BFA and Legion. I've been the highest ilvl DH on my server for the entire Legion expac. To me, i just don't enjoy the reward structure WoW currently has. It's just not for me.

Achievements and logs are NOT enough for me to put in the extra time to be mythic this expac.

Look at a game like Destiny 2 for instance, which has better raid/reward structures than WoW does currently. It resembles more, the old school, WoW reward structure that i personally enjoyed more than "everyone is equal" mentality of BFA.

There are certain exotic guns (the equivalent of WoW legendary's) ghosts, mounts, etc... that ONLY drop from the last boss in the raid. Some of the best in the game. Much like how old WOW used to do it.

I want something more than just achievements and fluff like pets and different color armor to make mythic worth the time in BFA. I want entire raid WINGS Mythic only. I want a legendary to only drop off Jaina Mythic, etc.

Some exclusivity to the reward structure goes a long way vs "everyone is equal and its all just a stat game now". If i wanted that, i'd play Eve online.

That said, i know a lot of people (my friends too) enjoy BFA and i truly and honestly hope they continue to. I don't spread my feelings in game or to guildies because i try to be a positive force in games (too many negative gamers in general) and i can walk away from BFA saying "It isn't for me, i'll wait for classic" without bashing those who enjoy BFA.

[lockybalboa]

This elitist fat turd is worst of the wow streamers out there. Always spewing rubbish with endless toxicity.

[Redroniksre]

The problem with raiding is that some people think that exclusivity makes people want to improve and do better, but as per Blizzards own response, that is just not the case. You throw a brick wall in front of the average person trying to have fun and what do they do? They leave and go do something without it. I think WoW always needs the hard raiding difficulty, but at the same time it is an incredibly small amount of people, balancing a game for that is a terrible idea.

Not a big fan of preach anyways. I find he criticizes, but then looks to the past. With Bellular i find he does the same, but looks to the future (and more current game industry ideas).

[justandulas]

This elitist fat turd is worst of the wow streamers out there. Always spewing rubbish with endless toxicity.

That's heelvsbabyface. Don't confuse the two. Preach is rarely negative, and even when he is, there's a silver lining.

HeelvsBabyface, though, is 100% negativity and toxicity.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem with raiding is that some people think that exclusivity makes people want to improve and do better, but as per Blizzards own response, that is just not the case. You throw a brick wall in front of the average person trying to have fun and what do they do? They leave and go do something without it. I think WoW always needs the hard raiding difficulty, but at the same time it is an incredibly small amount of people, balancing a game for that is a terrible idea.

Not a big fan of preach anyways. I find he criticizes, but then looks to the past. With Bellular i find he does the same, but looks to the future (and more current game industry ideas).

The flip side to that is if you take away the exclusivity that comes from the rewards of end game raiding, what is left OF raiding?

I pretty much show up out of the kindness of my heart and for friends, and that's it. There's not enough reward structure at the end game raiding like there was in the past.

On the other hand, i like the idea that the game has more avenues than ever to gear up new players and/or alts, and the game isn't "raid or die" anymore.

I just wish they could strike a perfect balance between it all.

[Ange]

You're conveniently ignoring the fact that the BFA grind is for the things you already had in the "previous" season and are exactly the same in this one. Your Azerite armor didn't get new, amazing abilities that will completely change the way your spec works - the ultimate "upgrade" is still extra 5ilvls.

You want to compare this to Vanilla? Then imagine weapon skill resetting every day and having to constantly retrain it. It'd be ridiculously pointless, but that's exactly the kind of grind we have nowadays.Logging every day to do the same repetitive World Quests in order to keep re-learning the same skills you had just a few months earlier is sooo much better.

The price for a gear reset is never to high. The alternative would be the uncatchable gear deficit most MMO's got.

You don't want to AP grind your neck each tier? How about Player A is 2 years ahead of you and keeps playing at 2, 3 or 10 times the amount each day you can spare.

Whats more worse, 1 hour a week to keep up with the "HUGE AMOUNT OF AP GRIND" or no gear/ap resets every tier?

There is really no middle way, its either resets and OMG MEANINGLESS REPEATABLE CONTENT in a GRIND GAME GENRE or you started the game late, you lose.