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  1. #581
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    I just don't get the hype for classic, because the majority of complains about the current game are astronomical worse in the old grind game.
    Not 'worse', just different in a way that some people (such as myself) will thoroughly enjoy.

    Depth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instant gratification, any day of the week.

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Can you tell me exactly why BFA is worse? It has inifitely more to do than WoD. Classes play worse but thats it. Everything else in the game is better.
    Sorry for the late reply, i haven't checked MMO champ since yesterday.

    I'd say it's not all bad for either expac, and there are pro's and con's to both.

    Wod Pro: Art team, sound design, the idea behind garrisons (even if the execution stunk) classes played better, the raids MEANT more in terms of gearing, and progression was more interesting because of it, IMO.

    Wod Con: Garrisons because while i like the idea, it is the worst housing ive ever seen in an MMO, Even 20 year old Runescape did it better. LONG DROUGHT at the end. Lack of things to do outside of raid that had value at all, and the story kinda flip flopped halfway through.

    BFA PRO: Art team, again they are fantastic and deserve so much praise. How much there is to do outside of raids in terms of gearing up. (that will also be a con), the new races, and zones.

    BFA CON: * Class play. You touched on it a tad but the class is your vessel for how you see the world. If your class/character isn't as fun to play as it has been in previous expacs, you won't have as much fun. Simple as that. In bfa, i think only 2 classes (outlaw rogue, and havoc dh) got improved going into BFA, the majority of us don't like our class play this time which is a HUGE red flag in an MMO. *Secondly, how easy it is to gear outside of raids IS a con as well as a pro. Pro for those who don't wanna commit to raiding, HUGE con for those who do. Why bother pushing past heroic and committing 4-5x the amount of time for mythic clear when gear has never meant less in the game? BFA has turned WoW from an MMORPG into an ARPG like Diablo 3 and successfully killed high end raiding for the average heroic/mythic guild. *On top of that, the content just feels bland. Emissary quests and world quests are the most thoughtless content ever made in WoW, talk about mind numbing boredom. I'd rather farm rep one kill at a time than do another emissary quest. * lets talk warmode too, which is gonna ruffle feathers... warmode is a good idea, but HORRIBLE execution just like garrisons. This expansion is about us being AT WAR, and outside of story cutscenes, i don't feel it. WPVP even feels less than previous expacs due to how scaling is now trying to put us all on equal numerical footing rather than just let the war unfold naturally, this expac should be about us taking the eastern/western kingdoms FROM one another. Take the WAR back to WARCRAFT. Instead, they (just like WoD) decided to pivot halfway into the story in a wildly different direction and focus on the next expac/big threat rather than take care of the story that they started in a meaningful way. Also, some players WANT the horde to be more wc2 horde and less thralls horde so to see them do Garrosh 2.0 with Sylvanas after promising NOT to, well, its not only bad story telling but it's very disappointing. EDITED CON: The new races too. They aren't even all that creative like naga, murloc, etc... it's just new human, elves, dwarves, tauren, and orcs.... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. To add insult to injury you don't even get them with the expac, you have to grind rep for them which no doubt turned more players off than even have these races. If they sell races with the expac, they should be there DAY 1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pua View Post
    Not 'worse', just different in a way that some people (such as myself) will thoroughly enjoy.

    Depth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instant gratification, any day of the week.
    This. No one is claiming classic is perfect. Most of us experienced it. No game is perfect, but i'll take imperfect depth and RPG mechanics over the Diablo 3 the MMO version of WOW we have today.

    I prefer older style MMO's anyway. Where the journey is the reward

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawlhero View Post
    Yeah, the main thing you do the entire time you play the game the focal point behind power progression plays worse. Kind of a huge deal. Nice part about WoD was it was the last time where you could do all that was required and called your character "Done", before they introduced non stop power gains, a shift in design philosophy, players wont play the game for the game, they will only play it if they can get numerical gain out of it.
    I love your point about being "done" with a character at a certain point in the raiding/expac, and how that's gone now. Being DONE, so to speak, is an important part of an RPG characters journey. The Heros journey is all about the beginning, the middle, and the end.

    WoW currently, has no end and the treadmill keeps going so you never hit the end and can retire as a character naturally.

    People ask "Why do you want classic if there's not gonna be new raids etc?" but to me, that's not necessarily a bad thing because i'll be able to chart a clear beginning, middle, and end coarse for that particular character and move on to the next. I won't feel like i have to constantly grind that treadmill for a piece of loot that's the same as what i have on now, but +10 ilvls ahead. That works for some people, but not for me.
    Last edited by justandulas; 2019-03-17 at 12:12 PM.

  3. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I won't feel like i have to constantly grind that treadmill for a piece of loot that's the same as what i have on now, but +10 ilvls ahead. That works for some people, but not for me.
    Not sure why you brought this up in this discussion. You make it sound like it is bad thing, which can be in your view. But this has been the staple of MMO for many years. Including WoW. Including classic.

    So if it was a problem, why is it now and not 10 years ago?

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    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Cuz the game is boring af. Half of the 'more content to do' is just outright boring and trivial.

    Expeditions? yawn
    War fronts? once a week and yawn
    Raiding? Very well done, but that's always been there
    PvP? In an expac that is hailed has having the worst class and specs in the game's history? yea thats a hard pass. Also been available for years
    World quest spam? just lol
    Assaults? You mean more world quests?
    Allied races? that's ''content'' the same way that Tmorph gives you extra content

    What else is there? BFA is a shining example that quality>>>>quantity.
    Sounds a bit like of all the expansions of old. Granted they did not have Assaults or Expeditions. Infact, they did not have anything else.

    WQ are just an evolution of the dailies.

    Never PvP so cannot comment on that.

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Not sure why you brought this up in this discussion. You make it sound like it is bad thing, which can be in your view. But this has been the staple of MMO for many years. Including WoW. Including classic.

    So if it was a problem, why is it now and not 10 years ago?
    Because 10 years ago the gear meant something more. It was your way of separating yourself from the herd and become more. Raids used to be the only place to get the best gear, now thanks to wf/tf and m+ it’s entirely possible to build a mythic geared toon without ever stepping foot in a raid.

    It isn’t a problem for some games like diablo 3, which I like, but it’s an issue for wow. It devalues raiding and gives no real incentive other than the kindness of your heart to do it. On top of that, the gear turnover is faster in bfa than any point in wow. You get an item and next week it’s replaced. So on.

    Too diablo 3. Not enough old wow. If you can get raid quality gear by just doing m+, lucky on wf, or warfronrs, why bother with raiding? It’s why raiding is at an all time low. the current system is great for those at the tip top and those at the bottom, but has killed most heroic/mythic raiding guilds. There’s no longer the incentive that if I want the best I gotta raid; now you can just get lucky on your weekly chest

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Yet the game hasn't felt as empty as it does now for me.
    Wide as an ocean, but only as deep as a puddle

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Wide as an ocean, but only as deep as a puddle
    Depth in a RPG? Never heard of such a thing

  7. #587
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    Depth in a RPG? Never heard of such a thing
    Right? Where WoW gets around it is there are very little, to no, rpg elements left. Wow today resembles diablo 3 more than vanilla wow

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Yet the game hasn't felt as empty as it does now for me.
    No doubt. Not trying to change that. I find the game boring eventually and when I do, I take a break from it and then come back once I feel like playing it again.

    I just find it odd that some people list things as a reason for it. They have playing the same game, in the same style, the same direction for years.

    If I eat Pizza everyday, I would get sick of it eventually. Does not mean it is because the Pizza has changed,

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    No doubt. Not trying to change that. I find the game boring eventually and when I do, I take a break from it and then come back once I feel like playing it again.

    I just find it odd that some people list things as a reason for it. They have playing the same game, in the same style, the same direction for years.

    If I eat Pizza everyday, I would get sick of it eventually. Does not mean it is because the Pizza has changed,
    But the pizza changed flavors and ingredients suddenly, hence why so many are walking away. They aren’t angry like previous expacs; they are more apathetic. Which is far more dangerous.

    Angry people are at least emotionally invested. Today, we see more apathy with people walking away from bfa and once that happens they never come back

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    Because asmongoloid and preach said so. And blind sheeps followed the hate
    So you try to tell people, that the great drop in subscribes I see as an active player is due to the streamers/ youtube channels conspiracy?
    Do you really believe that people would abandon their fun just for the sake of some stupid protest or something like that?

    No. Although Warlords of Draenor had greater content drought than BfA, I'd prefer to have WoD right now instead of BfA.

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Sorry for the late reply, i haven't checked MMO champ since yesterday.

    I'd say it's not all bad for either expac, and there are pro's and con's to both.

    Wod Pro: Art team, sound design, the idea behind garrisons (even if the execution stunk) classes played better, the raids MEANT more in terms of gearing, and progression was more interesting because of it, IMO.

    Wod Con: Garrisons because while i like the idea, it is the worst housing ive ever seen in an MMO, Even 20 year old Runescape did it better. LONG DROUGHT at the end. Lack of things to do outside of raid that had value at all, and the story kinda flip flopped halfway through.

    BFA PRO: Art team, again they are fantastic and deserve so much praise. How much there is to do outside of raids in terms of gearing up. (that will also be a con), the new races, and zones.

    BFA CON: * Class play. You touched on it a tad but the class is your vessel for how you see the world. If your class/character isn't as fun to play as it has been in previous expacs, you won't have as much fun. Simple as that. In bfa, i think only 2 classes (outlaw rogue, and havoc dh) got improved going into BFA, the majority of us don't like our class play this time which is a HUGE red flag in an MMO. *Secondly, how easy it is to gear outside of raids IS a con as well as a pro. Pro for those who don't wanna commit to raiding, HUGE con for those who do. Why bother pushing past heroic and committing 4-5x the amount of time for mythic clear when gear has never meant less in the game? BFA has turned WoW from an MMORPG into an ARPG like Diablo 3 and successfully killed high end raiding for the average heroic/mythic guild. *On top of that, the content just feels bland. Emissary quests and world quests are the most thoughtless content ever made in WoW, talk about mind numbing boredom. I'd rather farm rep one kill at a time than do another emissary quest. * lets talk warmode too, which is gonna ruffle feathers... warmode is a good idea, but HORRIBLE execution just like garrisons. This expansion is about us being AT WAR, and outside of story cutscenes, i don't feel it. WPVP even feels less than previous expacs due to how scaling is now trying to put us all on equal numerical footing rather than just let the war unfold naturally, this expac should be about us taking the eastern/western kingdoms FROM one another. Take the WAR back to WARCRAFT. Instead, they (just like WoD) decided to pivot halfway into the story in a wildly different direction and focus on the next expac/big threat rather than take care of the story that they started in a meaningful way. Also, some players WANT the horde to be more wc2 horde and less thralls horde so to see them do Garrosh 2.0 with Sylvanas after promising NOT to, well, its not only bad story telling but it's very disappointing. EDITED CON: The new races too. They aren't even all that creative like naga, murloc, etc... it's just new human, elves, dwarves, tauren, and orcs.... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. To add insult to injury you don't even get them with the expac, you have to grind rep for them which no doubt turned more players off than even have these races. If they sell races with the expac, they should be there DAY 1.
    Just to add to your point about WQs; they take way longer than in legion. They removed the ability to easily form groups via addons, but also made it so a lot of WQs don't even share progress with the people in your party. So doing your WQs in bfa honestly takes 4-5x longer than it did in legion BEFORE you got flying.

  12. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindMask View Post
    Just to add to your point about WQs; they take way longer than in legion. They removed the ability to easily form groups via addons, but also made it so a lot of WQs don't even share progress with the people in your party. So doing your WQs in bfa honestly takes 4-5x longer than it did in legion BEFORE you got flying.
    And you know what would happen if we still ahd addon? Blizzard would 5x increase amounth of stuff you have to do in order to finish WQ so time you spend doing world Q will stay same.

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindMask View Post
    Just to add to your point about WQs; they take way longer than in legion. They removed the ability to easily form groups via addons, but also made it so a lot of WQs don't even share progress with the people in your party. So doing your WQs in bfa honestly takes 4-5x longer than it did in legion BEFORE you got flying.
    Here’s another WQ whoopsie. The expansion is supposed to be about war vs the factions, but they removed the pvp wq. Daduq?

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawlhero View Post
    Yeah, the main thing you do the entire time you play the game the focal point behind power progression plays worse. Kind of a huge deal. Nice part about WoD was it was the last time where you could do all that was required and called your character "Done", before they introduced non stop power gains, a shift in design philosophy, players wont play the game for the game, they will only play it if they can get numerical gain out of it.
    It isnt just gear. Pets, Achievements, Mounts, Toys,... Every expansion they add so many ***** that you cant possibly be ever done with it. Everytime when i got close to collecting most of mounts boom patch with another 20 new negeneic mounts to grind in trivial content just to keep me playing and got sick of it. Legion added 120 mounts. 120!!!! Why not just add 12 super unique mounts per expansion for achieving some really challening stuff. It is impossible to keep up so why bother.

  15. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    It isnt just gear. Pets, Achievements, Mounts, Toys,... Every expansion they add so many ***** that you cant possibly be ever done with it. Everytime when i got close to collecting most of mounts boom patch with another 20 new negeneic mounts to grind in trivial content just to keep me playing and got sick of it. Legion added 120 mounts. 120!!!! Why not just add 12 super unique mounts per expansion for achieving some really challening stuff. It is impossible to keep up so why bother.
    The irony is that the more mounts/pets they add, the less i want to collect them all.

    I agree that i'd prefer less, and more QUALITY than quantity in the mount department. Problem is, the genie is already out of the bottle and there's hundreds of mounts already so unless they give mounts special abilities (like dragons having breath attacks for example) then we are stuck with this incredibly boring facebook style collect-a-mount experience.

    And the few really cool mounts they are adding in BFA, are mostly all store bought. /sigh

  16. #596
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    But it's not the same style nor the same direction that's just flat out wrong. Blizz seems to want to change the style of the game every expansion, reinventing the wheel every.single.time.
    And now it comes full circle.

    People complain about the doing the same thing.

    Dailies. Just WQ.

    Raids. Same old same old.

    So they to add some different, change a few things and people then come and complain about the changes. Yes, not all changes are successful.

    Damn if you do. Damn if you don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Because 10 years ago the gear meant something more. It was your way of separating yourself from the herd and become more. Raids used to be the only place to get the best gear, now thanks to wf/tf and m+ it’s entirely possible to build a mythic geared toon without ever stepping foot in a raid.
    That is not a problem with the game. That is your personal problem with the perceived status and ego.

    As you said, you want to be special because "you was raiding" and others could not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    But the pizza changed flavors and ingredients suddenly, hence why so many are walking away. They aren’t angry like previous expacs; they are more apathetic. Which is far more dangerous.
    You are doing it again. Trying to find a reason and someone to blame for being bored with something rather than just accepting it that you can be bored with it.

  17. #597
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    And now it comes full circle.

    People complain about the doing the same thing.

    Dailies. Just WQ.

    Raids. Same old same old.

    So they to add some different, change a few things and people then come and complain about the changes. Yes, not all changes are successful.

    Damn if you do. Damn if you don't.

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    That is not a problem with the game. That is your personal problem with the perceived status and ego.

    As you said, you want to be special because "you was raiding" and others could not.

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    You are doing it again. Trying to find a reason and someone to blame for being bored with something rather than just accepting it that you can be bored with it.
    If that's how you wanna view it, go ahead. Personally, i just enjoy having MMORPG elements and a ladder to climb. I like having to beat A to get to B, B to C, etc. You know, like proper RPG's.

    Old Wow had a great gear ladder to climb, but current wow feels like diablo 3 the MMO edition. Gear means nothing, and even when you get upgrades its legit just an ugpraded version of the same item you've been wearing since August of last year. That is boring AF game design, IMO.

    When you play an RPG, you're supposed to get stronger as you go not weaker as you level up and going from Legion to BFA definitely gave me a feeling of losing a TON of power. Even with the stat squish, my veng DH in legion could take an ENTIRE RAID of players from BFA without breaking a sweat.

    And yes, exclusivity IS what makes people motivated in an MMORPG. If everyone has everything, then no one is special. Period.

    It's the same reason you work to have a nice house and car IRL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post

    You are doing it again. Trying to find a reason and someone to blame for being bored with something rather than just accepting it that you can be bored with it.
    You are assuming, again. Yes, i admit i am bored with BFA but that's because BFA is boring to me. It is, by far, my least favorite WoW expac. Not because i'm burnt out on WoW, i can't wait for wow classic, but because i don't like the direction they took with BFA.

    It has more in common with Diablo 3 than Vanilla WoW in terms of reward structures, and i like D3, but it's not what i want in an MMO

    EDIT: To give you a point about exclusivity, do you know what my most complimented items in WoW are? My spectral tiger, and my Murky pet. If EVERYONE had them, no one would give a crap about them. They are 'special' because they do stand out, which is harder and harder to do in today's WOW
    Last edited by justandulas; 2019-03-17 at 02:32 PM.

  18. #598
    All this talk of WQ's.. I find it insane that this far into the expansion people still do world quests. I feel like in legion once I was exalted with everyone I didn't step foot into the world to do WQ's.

  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    What are you even talking about? Who is complaining about raiding? If anything it's the only saving grace of this expansion. And if you país attention to what I said you wouldn't read where I said that they scrap good content for no reason at all, which was my complaint.

    Also pls tell me what new things they added? Island expeditions are like watered down mop scenarios and war fronts were implemented horribly only being available like once or twice a month (in their respective cycles)
    The raids are very well designed, but the reward structures leave a lot to be desired IMO.

    Let me put it into perspective like this.... Destiny 2 currently has better rewards and raid reward structure than WoW. Destiny 2.

    It has certain exotic (WoW legendary) guns that are CRAZY OP, gear, mount, and ghost (pets) that are ONLY found in the raid off the last boss every tier, and they remain OP forever.

    When you can say Destiny 2 has better raid rewards/incentives than WoW with a straight face; it's time as WoW players we admit that WoW raiding has a problem today.

  20. #600
    Stood in the Fire pinelakias's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, the treadmill is (almost) beyond repair, not just broken. And since Ion doesn't even try to fix it (with his constant irrational gambling/titanforging love) I don't think gearing will ever be important again. Hell, I don't even remember the names of gears from Legion, but I can still name 10-15 items from TBC (even though my memory isn't that good).
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