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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    How can you see ads? Are you the one last remaining guy who hasnt got an adblocker yet? What are you doing with your life? Like 7 Billion people laugh at you.
    Can you block ads on the youtube mobile app??

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstalker View Post
    If he doesn't get any monitization on YT then why are ads running on his content?
    YouTube runs ads regardless, they just keep all the revenue for themselves if you're demonetized.

  3. #643
    [scrolls to the end of the thread] "It's the same guys arguing"

    Preach distills the current state of MMO-C.

    "More Classic, I just can't..."

    ONE. OF. US!

    I wish he did monetize his videos, I'd go watch a couple to support him, after that.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by Melchior View Post
    He was very saddened because nobody was trying to counter his points. He actually wanted someone to challenge him, because he's interested in the topic.

    The whole thread amounted to people:

    Talking about tangential topics like Classic.
    Talking about Mythic raider superiority, which was not the point of his video.
    Talking about his Youtube video money, which are demonetized.
    Confusing him or his beliefs with others', because they didn't watch the video.
    Calling him fat.

    He read through 11 pages and couldn't find anyone addressing his points. The closest anyone came was just saying "Well, I like the game.", which is not debate-worthy or insightful. Some people even said things like "I'm not here to debate facts with you idiots.", which is also not insightful or helpful to the topic.

    I can't personally argue against his video, because I agree, which is why I didn't even post in this thread before now. It's just sad to see all the ignorance.
    if he really wanted people to counter his point he should have made this thread himself and openly ask about it.

    instead trying to capitalize on someone else making this thread based on his video.

    was is really that hard to do ?

    if yes then im way overestimating him as business person.

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    if he really wanted people to counter his point he should have made this thread himself and openly ask about it.

    instead trying to capitalize on someone else making this thread based on his video.

    was is really that hard to do ?

    if yes then im way overestimating him as business person.
    He knows that arguing with mmo-champion people is stupid, because they are not the brightest bunch of people. He only checked this thread because of his audience.

    Just pick a random thread and youll see that the topic is forgotten after like 3 posts and the rest is just people insulting each other.

    I made a thread once where i said that i didnt do one particular thing and the whole thread was people insultung me how I dare to do that particular thing.

    If you come to mmo-champion searching for a meaningful and civilized discussion you are in for a bad time.

  6. #646
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hextor View Post
    The whole reward structure is flawed. They need to take a step back. Stop the epic shower. But we know they can't just do that, they worked so hard to prop up this titanforge 'engagement' bullshit excuse for a system.
    And any sort of change would be seen as an attack on Casuals.

    Can't have changes without forum dads who work 6 jobs and have 11 children proclaiming the system is purposely rigged against them and elitists are favored. Yet at the same time these same forum dads quit after two weeks because "muh content finished" and don't see the irony of the situation they created.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    He knows that arguing with mmo-champion people is stupid, because they are not the brightest bunch of people. He only checked this thread because of his audience.

    Just pick a random thread and youll see that the topic is forgotten after like 3 posts and the rest is just people insulting each other.

    I made a thread once where i said that i didnt do one particular thing and the whole thread was people insultung me how I dare to do that particular thing.

    If you come to mmo-champion searching for a meaningful and civilized discussion you are in for a bad time.
    im not speaking about arguing

    if he wants people's point of view including bonuses of current system instead picking up scraps from people fighting each other he should openly ask about it.

    then he would find plenty of usefull material .

    but he didnt want this really , he wanted controversy to sell it on youtube.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    im not speaking about arguing

    if he wants people's point of view including bonuses of current system instead picking up scraps from people fighting each other he should openly ask about it.

    then he would find plenty of usefull material .

    but he didnt want this really , he wanted controversy to sell it on youtube.
    You do realize what this topic's supposed to be about, right? Hint: it's NOT about Preach as a youtuber, his personality or wether he's fat or not.

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Your guild got Rastkhan only like couple days ago, naturally you did not have same opportunities like me, but you are still head and shoulders above what M+ runners can do and you WILL get that 415 ilvl thing you want guaranteed too. Where as otherwise you may not get it like ever.
    If you are running high M+ like 20 plus you are getting around 2 400+ items every 20 to 30 mins per person sometimes you only get 1 but it will usually be 2 once you get high enough.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    "good" is relative. Being in a 6/9M guild right now is by no means bad whatsoever relative to the average player, but it isn't as good as where you are.

    I mean you're basically calling >99% of the playerbase bad. That may be true relative to you, but I don't really see the point of making that argument?
    >99% of the player base is bad. They don't care about learning how to actually play their class they don't spend time optimizing rotations many don't double pot. These are simple facts. It's not a bad thing to be bad just don't claim to be good.

    I actually blame the easy availability of gear as well as lfr for this though lfr is not a gear related issue. A lot of players previously got better in order to raid they wanted to see the full story so they pushed and got better. I was a complete scrub at the start of the game had never played an mmo before. I pushed to get better because I wanted to see the end of the story I got to see the halls of naxx the bug temple etc because of it. If LFR of those places existed I don't think I would have pushed to get better. We used to get gear in order to raid to push forward now people raid for gear if they even bother doing that since gear comes from everything now. Players now get to 400 ilvl within a week and assume they must be good at the class because they have 400 ilvl but that really isn't the case.
    Last edited by Xath; 2019-03-19 at 05:56 AM.

  10. #650
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    good.

    raiding has been negatively influencing game from veyr beggining culminated in WoD when there was literaly nothing to do but raid.

    if they put more focus on dungeons since very beggining game would be much better over all those years.
    Guess you still haven't learn how the game works or even humans work.

    The entire reason for doing Dungeons is gear.

    Raids are only made an example of here because you can only do it once a week and it's harder, therefore slowing down the progress.

    Having Dungeons only makes it too fast and people unsubscribe too quickly. The only reason most ppl do M+ is to get gear to make themselves feel better, for the eventual raiding they will either do or never do.

    The entire game is about incentives and feeling of reward. Dungeons have neither if there is nowhere to springboard.

    They could remove all raids and double the amount of dungeons and it still wouldn't fix this mess. Most people don't even do the dungeons we have now or raids.
    Last edited by Daffan; 2019-03-19 at 05:58 AM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    And any sort of change would be seen as an attack on Casuals.

    Can't have changes without forum dads who work 6 jobs and have 11 children proclaiming the system is purposely rigged against them and elitists are favored. Yet at the same time these same forum dads quit after two weeks because "muh content finished" and don't see the irony of the situation they created.
    Yes I see that a lot, which is exactly what happened with the cataclysm heroic dungeons that Preach is talking about. Blizzard tried to make them harder than WotLK ones, the playerbase wouldn't accept it or adapt to it so Blizzard had to cave and make them faceroll again. That's 100% why they created the mythic difficulty, it was the only way for them to have dungeons that had the difficulty they wanted without pissing off everyone.

    It's sad because if this is the state we're in then the players are essentially designing the game. It can never get better, only worse because removing or changing anything will cause a massive uproar, this happened when they tried to remove flying too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    I actually blame the easy availability of gear as well as lfr for this though lfr is not a gear related issue. A lot of players previously got better in order to raid they wanted to see the full story so they pushed and got better.
    It's mostly a difficulty thing.
    If you don't need to get better or more powerful to make the outside world easier then few people will.
    If you don't need to get better or more powerful to clear all the instances (on any difficulty) then few people will.
    If you don't need to get more powerful to make PvP easier then few people will.

    It's like if being fat, thin or fit had the exact same effect health wise and from a beauty perspective then almost nobody would ever go to the gym and try to improve their physique because there would be no point, no gain and no advantage to it.

  12. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post

    It's mostly a difficulty thing.
    If you don't need to get better or more powerful to make the outside world easier then few people will.
    If you don't need to get better or more powerful to clear all the instances (on any difficulty) then few people will.
    If you don't need to get more powerful to make PvP easier then few people will.

    It's like if being fat, thin or fit had the exact same effect health wise and from a beauty perspective then almost nobody would ever go to the gym and try to improve their physique because there would be no point, no gain and no advantage to it.
    i like your example extremly much . because it fits gaming world perfecly.

    you know why ?

    because irl you dont nessesarily need to be fit or beautiful

    you can also be rich and rip all benefits including females swarming around you .

    it fits gaming perfecly because all other games besides WoW embraced it ages ago - proposing people 2 ways - either be hardcore gamer ( its the metaforical gym) or just buy gear / bonuses (being rich)

    only wow didnt - thats why its failing on both fronts. because of stubborn devs who refuse to accept microtransactions and embrace what they bring into game .

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    i like your example extremly much . because it fits gaming world perfecly.

    you know why ?

    because irl you dont nessesarily need to be fit or beautiful
    Exactly, that's my point. You don't need to but you'll have a definite advantage if you do. The effort matches the reward perfectly.

    If it had been in WoW it would mean that every 3-6 months the entire population would get normalized to roughly the same level of fitness and have to start working out again from scratch.

    In such a world the number of gym memberships would probably decline substantially.

  14. #654
    Whereas I agree with the fact that the gear treadmill seems to be broken, it actually surprised me that Mythic Uldir was only 385 (I only picked up this expansion a week or so before BoD release).

    However I did find one of his statements to be interesting, and potentially the reason for Blizzard attempting this seasonal approach.
    He says that he considers gear collection after having cleared your intended content (be it normal, hc or mythic) to be a chore. I realise that a key component of MMOs originally was the chore aspect of it, but as the video game market is developing Blizzard is trying to adapt/evolve alongside it and considering that BFA shipped 3.4m units on day one for a 14 year old game suggests that they have been doing something right (I'm not saying that the seasonal approach is right or wrong, time will tell).

    Preach is attributing a lot of this change to so called "Bads" who are firm in their belief that what is holding them back is the lack of ilvl, and this is where I think he is dead wrong, if Blizzard truly adjusted their design choices according to a vocal minority (One that is even barely present, I haven't noticed it at least) the game would be in complete shambles by now.
    I believe the change can be attributed to the overall climate in video games at this time where Seasons are very much en vogue, it makes games more approachable for new players as they can join their potentially more experienced friends in the thick of it right away instead of having to spend a good amount of time to get to "their level". Will this work for WoW in terms of attracting new players and is it a good approach? IMO no and no. It might make starting the game a bit easier but game is still 14 years old and attracting new players is not easy.

    There's a decent amount of dislike towards so called "casuals", but at the end of the day I think it's important to bear in mind that "casuals" is the majority of subscribers and if you don't take the majority of your playerbase into consideration when making design choices then you may well be doing something wrong.

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    i like your example extremly much . because it fits gaming world perfecly.

    you know why ?

    because irl you dont nessesarily need to be fit or beautiful

    you can also be rich and rip all benefits including females swarming around you .

    it fits gaming perfecly because all other games besides WoW embraced it ages ago - proposing people 2 ways - either be hardcore gamer ( its the metaforical gym) or just buy gear / bonuses (being rich)

    only wow didnt - thats why its failing on both fronts. because of stubborn devs who refuse to accept microtransactions and embrace what they bring into game .
    Lol what? Wow is failing because it reset every 3 to 6 months it gives basically zero long term benefits gear used to not reset when the game was at it's height.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    Whereas I agree with the fact that the gear treadmill seems to be broken, it actually surprised me that Mythic Uldir was only 385 (I only picked up this expansion a week or so before BoD release).

    However I did find one of his statements to be interesting, and potentially the reason for Blizzard attempting this seasonal approach.
    He says that he considers gear collection after having cleared your intended content (be it normal, hc or mythic) to be a chore. I realise that a key component of MMOs originally was the chore aspect of it, but as the video game market is developing Blizzard is trying to adapt/evolve alongside it and considering that BFA shipped 3.4m units on day one for a 14 year old game suggests that they have been doing something right (I'm not saying that the seasonal approach is right or wrong, time will tell).

    Preach is attributing a lot of this change to so called "Bads" who are firm in their belief that what is holding them back is the lack of ilvl, and this is where I think he is dead wrong, if Blizzard truly adjusted their design choices according to a vocal minority (One that is even barely present, I haven't noticed it at least) the game would be in complete shambles by now.
    I believe the change can be attributed to the overall climate in video games at this time where Seasons are very much en vogue, it makes games more approachable for new players as they can join their potentially more experienced friends in the thick of it right away instead of having to spend a good amount of time to get to "their level". Will this work for WoW in terms of attracting new players and is it a good approach? IMO no and no. It might make starting the game a bit easier but game is still 14 years old and attracting new players is not easy.

    There's a decent amount of dislike towards so called "casuals", but at the end of the day I think it's important to bear in mind that "casuals" is the majority of subscribers and if you don't take the majority of your playerbase into consideration when making design choices then you may well be doing something wrong.
    Bads are far far far far far more numerous than actual good players still playing. There is a significant difference between bads and casuals.

  16. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    There's a decent amount of dislike towards so called "casuals", but at the end of the day I think it's important to bear in mind that "casuals" is the majority of subscribers and if you don't take the majority of your playerbase into consideration when making design choices then you may well be doing something wrong.
    I believe that one of his main points, especially in the "reading the thread" video was actually asking the very question of "do casuals truly benefit from this system?" He claims that he was being messaged by various "casual" players who aren't exactly thrilled with this new system either and I can certainly see that. Some people, however, assume that every "casual" has to love this new approach.

    There's a big difference between catchup mechanics - thus allowing people to tackle the newest content without months of grinding - and what we have now. Preach is very much for the former and even if he wasn't, he realizes it's pretty much impossible to remove it from the game at this point. There are some people who advocate this, but it's usually the "well, back in Vanilla..." types. They'll have Classic soon - and some of them are quite bitter toward retail, so their opinions are heavily biased.

    There aren't any real statistics about people truly benefitting from this system. Oh sure, we do get numbers, but it's the usual forum guesswork, with "1% Mythic raiders, 99% everyone else", which is largely meaningless. Blizzard never reveals such data, we are merely guessing and have no idea to know how it really works. It's quite possible that the % spread is completely different, with people only caring about achievements, pet battles, transmogs, PvP and so on. Unfortunately, the thread was - at times - about "these damn elitists" and "they are hurting The Casuals". We had the self-proclaimed Defenders of Casuals commenting in the same tone, completely misrepresenting Preach' points and very few actual "casuals" posting ... with (almost?) none of them explaining the true joy they (supposedly) get from this system.

    But that's how it always goes with threads about the guy. In some people's mind, he's a mythic raider = he's the enemy, regardless of what he actually says. There's no possible way his viewpoint could be anything other than elitist and that's how they're going to "discuss" it. I honestly am surprised he spent 3+ hours browsing this thread, what a waste of time.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2019-03-19 at 10:22 AM.

  17. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I dont base skill level on statistics. So I agree that if you’re dying to the same mechanics 20 times in a row (which a lot of “mythic raiders” do) then you’re pretty bad. If 99% of the playerbase do that then they are bad players.
    I think it's very funny that i have all my toons at ilvl390s without steping into instances lol feels good man!being badass ftw!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Lol what? Wow is failing because it reset every 3 to 6 months it gives basically zero long term benefits gear used to not reset when the game was at it's height.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Bads are far far far far far more numerous than actual good players still playing. There is a significant difference between bads and casuals.
    Lies i gotten 10 mage tower skins before it went away good players still around.
    Last edited by Lurker1; 2019-03-19 at 11:04 AM.

  18. #658
    Its funny how many people claim he is just doing it for that sweet sweet youtube money, considering that his videos are demonetized.

  19. #659
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    Its funny how many people claim he is just doing it for that sweet sweet youtube money, considering that his videos are demonetized.
    but the expositon and marketing he is doin for his streams are not.

  20. #660
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker1 View Post
    I think it's very funny that i have all my toons at ilvl390s without steping into instances lol feels good man!being badass ftw!
    I'm in the same situation, it just doesn't feel satisfying and there's definitely no point in putting in more effort.

    All I want is for the effort to match the reward and for catch-up mechanics to only get you so far. Normal BFD should be what you catch up to so normal Uldir gear should be the level of gear I get. Getting mythic Uldir gear just feels demotivating.

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