Bod, one of the best raids ever?

[Galluccio]

Bfa might be bad but bod is one of the best raids I have played during the late expansions. Honestly, I don't remember when was the last time I liked a raid in WoW. The good thing about bod is that it feels real, It's no longer that split room nonsense. There are very few split room raids that were good in WoW like ulduar, icc, antorus or brf but that's because the concept or the fights were great.

Bod is definitely an improvement over Uldir who was really boring and didn't make any sense. It was the most monotonous raid ever. They could design a prison much better than this. The only interesting part of it was Ghuun mostly for the feels (very nice design).

For what it's worth, bod made me feel like I play for the story. I really wanted to see what happens.

This is clickbait. You made me click on this thread to find out the meaning of "BOD" and yet there's still no explanation.

[Marrilaife]

I don't know what kind of guild you are, but I'm not even the best geared in our. I'm like 6th-7th guy on a totem pole gear-wise. We got one almost at ilvl 419 from Mythic raiding exclusively.

Top guy is like 415 and doesn't have many sockets. Bottom guy has sockets but is like 408. And we have lean roster so we don't even split gear between too many people. Saddest part is when I check your armory you don't even have that many kills on stuff. Because I would understand many more titanforged / sockets on someone who has many more boss kills overall.

Logs say average ilvl of raid is 412. So defo not everyone is "415+ ez".

[McNeil]

I would rate Uldir a 5/10 and BoD would be about a 7/10. There are a couple of things I like: the Alliance vs Horde theme (though the Alliance is mostly fighting the Zandalari), Some really good boss fights (Opulence, Mekkatorque, Jaina), the different experiences you start with as Alliance/Horde, not a whole lot of annoying thrash mobs and not so many of them. Also the music is great.

Some things I didn't like: The first 8 bosses being to easy, very linear (how are the Alliance/Horde incapable of destroying these wooden blockages while they have all these siege weapons????????????????????? x1000), no Alliance bosses die where it makes it feel pointless to even encounter them, some annoying bug, and maybe my biggest gripe is the uninteresting location (since I main Horde so I see this city tons of times every day). I like having my raids being completely new places.

[Taeldorian]

Ho Ho? M+ 415 in no time? *sniff sniff* smells like bullshit. Where are all these 415 M+ heroes hiding? Sure ain't seeing them in M+ runs there.

You can't even frikkin' get 415 weapon or Azerite from M+, with only other Azerite source being random ass vendor selling pieces that are at best 400 dps loss compared to raid Azerite each.

Heck even Ion yesterday in Q&A said that mythic raiders by all metrics have higher average ilvl and gear quality than anyone else and in between your BS and Ion's words I'm going with him.

Yes, ion addressed RNG yet again in the QA because it’s a big problem. He even stated they want to lessen RNG without making everything in the game have a vendor. He’s addressed RNG in almost every single QA because it’s a very common complaint due to how rampant it is in the game now. The entire gearing process is RNG (ilvl, gems, tertiary). You might love it but that doesn’t mean it isn’t an issue.

He also stated there’s more ways to get end game gear than just raiding now which IMO means raiding needs more rewards whether it’s cosmetic transmogs or mounts that are gone after the tier/season is over similar to gladiator. This is my main point.

I get it though. You don’t see it as an issue. You still haven’t provided me with any examples of how this RNG slot machine gameplay benefits the game. You’ve actually completely ignored that probably because you don’t have a good answer as I said before and continued with the berating. Usually people do that kinda shit when they don’t have any good answer but wanna keep replying.

Anyway, another poster linked you someone with almost full m+ gear at 415. Of course you said that’s “not an example” and “doesn’t count” but I can get you more if you want. Yes, you can get 415 from mythic raiding but it’s easier to do so from m+ and faster as well. I mean that should be obvious, you can spam m+ as much as you want while raiding is on a lockout. You getting someone to 419 with mythic raiding was either done with splits (which is ok I guess) or extreme luck, that’s all it is which is my point. EDIT: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...age/snoozberry Here’s another from my guild. Were 8/9, went 7/9 4-5 times and 8/9 twice. I can get you as many as you’d like whether it’s guildies or randoms.

And I’m not sure what you mean by you can’t get a 415 weapon? I have a 415 weapon and 410 shield with a socket from m+.

I’m not sure your understanding my point though. I’m saying now that we have so many ways to obtain end game gear 1 of which is faster than raiding, raiding should have more rewards. You have continuously shit on me for saying I dislike TF/RNG within the gearing system but you’ve completely ignored the fact I’ve stated it doesn’t need to be removed. Just toned down or mythic raiding gets more cosmetic rewards. That’s all I’m saying. No idea why your hyper aggressive about it.

[Gaidax]

Yes, ion addressed RNG yet again in the QA because it’s a big problem. He even stated they want to lessen RNG without making everything in the game have a vendor. He’s addressed RNG in almost every single QA because it’s a very common complaint due to how rampant it is in the game now. The entire gearing process is RNG (ilvl, gems, tertiary). You might love it but that doesn’t mean it isn’t an issue.

He also stated there’s more ways to get end game gear than just raiding now which IMO means raiding needs more rewards whether it’s cosmetic transmogs or mounts that are gone after the tier/season is over similar to gladiator. This is my main point.

I get it though. You don’t see it as an issue. You still haven’t provided me with any examples of how this RNG slot machine gameplay benefits the game. You’ve actually completely ignored that probably because you don’t have a good answer as I said before and continued with the berating. Usually people do that kinda shit when they don’t have any good answer but wanna keep replying.

Anyway, another poster linked you someone with almost full m+ gear at 415. Of course you said that’s “not an example” and “doesn’t count” but I can get you more if you want. Yes, you can get 415 from mythic raiding but it’s easier to do so from m+ and faster as well. I mean that should be obvious, you can spam m+ as much as you want while raiding is on a lockout. You getting someone to 419 with mythic raiding was either done with splits (which is ok I guess) or extreme luck, that’s all it is which is my point. EDIT: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...age/snoozberry Here’s another from my guild. Were 8/9, went 7/9 4-5 times and 8/9 twice. I can get you as many as you’d like whether it’s guildies or randoms.

And I’m not sure what you mean by you can’t get a 415 weapon? I have a 415 weapon and 410 shield with a socket from m+.

I’m not sure your understanding my point though. I’m saying now that we have so many ways to obtain end game gear 1 of which is faster than raiding, raiding should have more rewards. You have continuously shit on me for saying I dislike TF/RNG within the gearing system but you’ve completely ignored the fact I’ve stated it doesn’t need to be removed. Just toned down or mythic raiding gets more cosmetic rewards. That’s all I’m saying. No idea why your hyper aggressive about it.

In the very same Q&A you are mentioning, Ion said it straight that Mythic Raiders are better geared across the board.

Flail about it all you like, but reality is that you are not getting mythic raid geared from M+ unless you spend there eternity, that's why linking a person running M+20 every day and all the day and still relying on Mythic items to fill the gaps is hardly a case of "easier and faster", which is what you people seem to push hard here.

This RNG noise itself is an indicator that people are NOT quite getting spammed by that 415+ gear as you might want to imagine, TF chances are low, getting actual upgrade from chest is low chance - which is what he was addressing btw, etc etc - these are issues that are mostly avoided by Mythic Raiders using any sort of decent loot system, because we start at 415 ilvl items by default. I just don't understand what's so hard to comprehend about it.

Your problem is that you seem to be closing your ears with your hands and just trying to latch on convenient shit - you had the man saying plainly yesterday that Mythic raiders are best geared across the board - this is the reality, what more do you want?

[Sylvaeres]

Ah yea. Nice response, definitely took care of the argument in an intelligent way. If you’re gonna shitpost at least put some effort into it.

You didn't give me much to work with, except more tears.

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It was all your drivel deserved. You made some mess of everything in that post and much of it was a bloody hyperbole.

OoOOOooOO first boss in Mythic being easy as fuck, tell me this isn't true!!! As for your other point, no matter what you sprout there, the fact is that mythic raiders have better gear and faster across the board and without RNG, simply by the grace of the fact that we don't need to fish for forges to get high ilvl gear, we simply get it.

Oh shit, he handled my lightwork like a boss

[Taeldorian]

In the very same Q&A you are mentioning, Ion said it straight that Mythic Raiders are better geared across the board.

Flail about it all you like, but reality is that you are not getting mythic raid geared from M+ unless you spend there eternity, that's why linking a person running M+20 every day and all the day and still relying on Mythic items to fill the gaps is hardly a case of "easier and faster", which is what you people seem to push hard here.

This RNG noise itself is an indicator that people are NOT quite getting spammed by that 415+ gear as you might want to imagine, TF chances are low, getting actual upgrade from chest is low chance - which is what he was addressing btw, etc etc - these are issues that are mostly avoided by Mythic Raiders using any sort of decent loot system, because we start at 415 ilvl items by default. I just don't understand what's so hard to comprehend about it.

Your problem is that you seem to be closing your ears with your hands and just trying to latch on convenient shit - you had the man saying plainly yesterday that Mythic raiders are best geared across the board - this is the reality, what more do you want?

This is what I mean, I’m really not sure you’ve understood my point. I mean it’s hard to tell because until this post it was just a bunch of aggressive belittling with no real answer but maybe I didn’t explain my point clearly.

What I’m saying is, you can get upgrades from anything. Its the exact same premise as legion legendaries. You can get an extremely powerful item from killing a boar (which wasn’t too uncommon). That shouldn’t be -possible- imo. The open world shouldn’t be an RNG filled slot machine. Maybe they can make WQs matter more/make them harder and up the rewards as opposed to doing shell game 3x and potentially getting something fat.

I’m not saying the RNG is ruining the game like you’ve repeatedly implied, I’m not saying it needs to be fully removed either. I’m saying there’s too much RNG right now especially with gearing and on top of that there’s so many ways to get end game gear that I believe mythic raiding should be more rewarding. Everything you can get from mythic is obtainable anytime outside of 1 achievement even in the next expac while in the past gear was the main reward. All I’m saying is that mythic feels unrewarding and I believe it needs more rewards especially because there’s many ways to get end game gear ( as per ions words as well) now.

You’ve also misunderstood my argument against TF. I never claimed an LFR raider could be decked out in 415 gear, you can go back and look. I dislike the fact it’s even possible to get a heroic/mythic level piece from a 2 Min world quest or darkshore war front. That’s a subjective opinion, you might like it while I don’t which is fine. I think TF would be fine if it were just toned down a bit. What would be the problem with toning it down so massive random upgrades weren’t a possibility but small upgrades are? Ion brought up another issue with the ilvl vs upgrade problem TF also brings.

If we’re gonna talk about ion and the QAs, he’s brought up and talked about RNG in almost every single one. He also agreed that mythic raiding is unrewarding now as well in the Greek QA if you haven’t checked that out yet due to the fact we have more ways of getting end game gear now. The fact RNG has been brought up so much is because people dislike the fact 2 guys can be raiding heroic, 1 of them can be 405 while the other can be 415. Random big upgrades just dont feel good to some people. That’s just how it is and that’s why it’s brought up so much. People don’t like ilvl/gearing being dictated by RNG.

TLDR: Regardless all I’m trying to say is that I believe mythic raiding and maybe even raiding in general could use some more rewards. End game gear is spread out all over the place and with TF even more so which is what ion was saying. Maybe raiding could get seasonal rewards like pvp has ontop of the current rewards that people can get even in the next expansion, this way you have something for the cutting edge and something for those who can’t finish the tier. Ion also mentioned that mythic raiding isn’t as rewarding and could use some help in the Greek QA and I agree with that. Outside of the challenge and fulfillment of killing bosses there’s nothing else. Meanwhile in pvp you have some crazy good seasonal rewards alongside rewards anyone can get anytime. I think that would work well for mythic raiding and probably even m+. This was my entire point and reasoning against the RNG systems. I also dislike the fact the open world is essentially just a slot machine with gems/ilvl being RNG now but that’s a different argument.

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You didn't give me much to work with, except more tears.

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Oh shit, he handled my lightwork like a boss

He didn’t handle anything for you. He has his own arguments while you’ve presented nothing at all. It’s like you waited for someone else to come in and discuss rather than do it yourself. If you don’t have anything to add then let this guy “handle” it for you and stop replying to me with this useless shit.

[Gaidax]

Again, I think you are making mountains out of molehills. You make it sound as if running WQs or whacking boars is how you get Mythic raiding grade gear, but it's not. It's simply ridiculous, to even build your whole argument around it because chance of this legit happening is so small that it is practically non-existent.

I think you still have a hard time dealing with a fact that Mythic raiding is, across the board, the fastest and foolproof way to get actual top-end gear that does not even require RNG due to boosted ilvl drops from a get go. You can replicate this by running M+ to death, but the reality is that to match what I get for my 3 hours x 2 days a week you need to literally chain yourself to M+ for triple that time and there are still no guarantees there of anything.

Back in Legion TF was more of an issue, because WF/TF chances were considerably higher, but this is no longer the case - it is much rarer now, but some people seem to still be unable to let go of this matter like some vengeful exes. Get on with the times, already.

[Warferno]

Miles better than Uldir and anything Legion produced. The boss fights are actually interesting and feel refreshing design wise.

[Fuqup]

imo opulence, mekkatorque, and jaina are excellent fights, and the rest are at decent at worst. opulence and jaina are especially good on mythic because they add a single mechanic that totally changes the way you have to play, which is how all mythic bosses should be. conclave is probably the worst offender, because 1) the mythic mechanic is noninteractive for 3/4 the raid, and 2) the reason behind bad ability overlaps isn't very intuitive (and involves timing your boss kills, which is more annoying than difficult). the instance is kind of a mess storywise because it tries to communicate too much information and ends up being totally non-linear.

as a whole, the heroic version is as good as TOS was on heroic (imo top tier) and the mythic version is also top tier, with some extremely high-quality fights weighed down by some mediocre ones, but nothing sincerely awful or unfun to progress on.

[Toore]

imo opulence, mekkatorque, and jaina are excellent fights, and the rest are at decent at worst. opulence and jaina are especially good on mythic because they add a single mechanic that totally changes the way you have to play, which is how all mythic bosses should be. conclave is probably the worst offender, because 1) the mythic mechanic is noninteractive for 3/4 the raid, and 2) the reason behind bad ability overlaps isn't very intuitive (and involves timing your boss kills, which is more annoying than difficult). the instance is kind of a mess storywise because it tries to communicate too much information and ends up being totally non-linear.

as a whole, the heroic version is as good as TOS was on heroic (imo top tier) and the mythic version is also top tier, with some extremely high-quality fights weighed down by some mediocre ones, but nothing sincerely awful or unfun to progress on.

As a tank don't fully agree with bolded part - oppulence was basically the same for me on both heroic and mythic

[Laqweeta]

Ulduar, ToT and ICC remain my top favorites. Every other raid seemed repetitive, shit lore and boring

[msdos]

The raids are garbage, especially Mythic, because once you're geared, you lose 100% incentive to ever do them ever again for any reason on any difficulty and your Mythic raid gear collects dust as you're logged out or not even playing your main anymore.

GG.

[Hyrja]

It's a decent raid but I liked the Legion tier raids alot more for some reason.

[Trumpcat]

Agreed with OP, BoD is one of my favorite raids in the game. I like everything start to end, especially the final boss. The part where Jaina freezes the ocean solid and lifts her ship to bombard us from above is the coolest thing any boss had ever done.

The only element I don't like is Mekkatorque where the robots mechanic make voice chat obligatory, otherwise you put a huge difficulty barrier on yourselves.

[Softbottom]

I can't speak for mythic as I only raid normal and heroic now. I would say overall the fights are pretty neat. Personally am not a fan of turning into the alliance for 3 fights mid raid but it is what it is. Overall I would give it a 7/10. Is it as good as Nighthold? Definately not. ToT? Not even close. I do like that even after all these years Blizzard still manages to think up new fight ideas though.