View Poll Results: Is it even possible for “balanced” world PvP to exist without reward for the losers?

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  • Yes

    11 12.09%
  • No

    80 87.91%
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  1. #21
    Never has been and never will be
    The game doesn't work like that even at a fundamental level

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer City Pop's Avatar
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    The times I remember having a lot of fun with world pvp were while leveling in STV and hanging out on Isle of Quel'Danas and Timeless Isle. For wpvp to be fun to me, it needs to be mostly spontaneous and disorganized, with ample opportunity to use the environment for LoS, creating distance, etc... I prefer 1v1s in wpvp, but there at least has to be some relatively equal faction balance. Phasing was supposedly going to fix this, but I've found that it only made it worse with one faction nearly always outnumbered 30:1. I don't think wpvp needs or should have any reward structure to it.
    Last edited by City Pop; 2019-03-16 at 10:11 PM.

  3. #23
    Balanced world pvp (where you always have an equal amount of participants) would mean a world where no other content is allowed (cant have any of the players not participate because they arent there for the world pvp) and where you can only enter or invite a friend to join you, when the other side has more players.

    Or in other words trying to build a balanced world pvp system is missing the point. World pvp is supposed to be chaotic and organic. If you balance it, you just have a second battleground system.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
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  4. #24
    Dreadlord khazmodan's Avatar
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    play a board game if you want a perfectly balanced game.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by horbindr View Post
    the entire allure of world pvp is that its not balanced. (with all the pros and cons that come with that)

    best way to avoid having skewed ratios in factions is to have 3 factions, but that obviously isn't an option for wow.
    The only way to have “balance” is to have no factions :P a third faction is just more of the same problem

  6. #26
    Herald of the Titans Nagrash's Avatar
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    It probably isn't possible but more importantly it shouldn't have to be.

  7. #27
    My tongue in cheek solution for world PvP - Blizz should have a ton of bots running around that look like players from the underrepresented faction. These bots would fight like hell but lose every duel.

    Players would love it, “I ganked so many Ally! God they suck!” and if the bots were good enough no one would know that it was all nonsense. It’s pretty much nonsense anyway so why not?
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  8. #28
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    I don't think so, no.

    Honestly I don't mind imbalance as long as a class doesn't become invincible. A spec being able to tank 2-3 people? Okay. A spec with a massive advantage over some others? Okay. A spec that allows you to face roll almost every class/spec combo in game? That feels shitty. If it takes a small army to kill someone, I'd rather it be because of skill rather than overtuned abilities. Plus when someone is able to take down an OP spec despite the disadvantage, it feels nice
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeymootwo View Post
    The only way to have “balance” is to have no factions :P a third faction is just more of the same problem
    depends on how its implemented. it works best if you tie it with elements of zone control, where controlling to much territory overstretches you. wow isn't particularly well setup to allow for a 3 faction self correcting balance system, but anything is better then a 2 faction system whos natural tendency is to lead to extremes.

    i can get behind no/one faction too, and that is definitely the easier solution and makes a lot of sense lorewise, but that would also be the most boring and bland solution.

  10. #30
    The Lightbringer Sinndra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    I don't see how that solves the problem that always occurs, where one side ends up totally dominant and the other side quits.
    the other side quits because there is nothing in it for them to stay involved.. currently.

    the game is far too time consuming right now for anybody to waste time doing WPvP, when somebody is exploiting or using a great advantage to gank.. players give up and leave; when the odds out number one faction, the outnumbered players leave. because they have nothing to show for the time spent afterwards.

    players want rewards. WPvP currently offers zero reward. its essentially a colossal waste of time and a distraction from what players are after ~~> rewards.

    sanction WPvP, offer currency used to buy tons of rewards (not that bs of timeless isle) but a real collection of rewards for an easy to get currency, and that will attract players.. entice them to stick around, even if they are out numbered. it will attract a good number of players that normally avoid WPvP at all costs, plus it rewards those that truly love WPvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I do realize that this is an internet forum full of morons, however in real life, no one questions me, people look to me for the answer, look up to me, trust me. To have dipshits on a video game forum question me, is insulting.

  11. #31
    High Overlord Mightytasty's Avatar
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    Poll question is different than the topic question, I voted yes but meant no.

    World PvP needs more rewards, discouragement of camping flight points, and more structure in general. War mode + world quests is a good start.

  12. #32
    No and trying to pursue that is stupid. It's showing in an extremely bright and unflattering light how badly the dual faction system has aged.

    I think the extra bonus for the lower faction is good enough, and otherwise they should just leave it be.

  13. #33
    They could make it so once you are in a raid group of people in the same zone you get phased into a zone with other raid groups.

    No more 40 man raid groups ganking 40 stragglers because technically they both have the same amount of players in the shard.

    If you want to be retarded you can go fight other retards.
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  14. #34
    The idea that world PvP should function for solo players is frankly retarded and why you end up with complaints about "balance". This is an MMO so World PvP is about groups. And a smaller but organized group that knows how to pvp will kick the ass of a larger group unless the latter is MUCH larger. The only option here for balance is to make skill matter more in GROUP PvP.
    If you wander around solo with a "kill me" flag on and people with classes that specialize in ST burst drop you or a group grabs you as a free kill, not their fault. Find others from your faction and follow them.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The idea that world PvP should function for solo players is frankly retarded and why you end up with complaints about "balance". This is an MMO so World PvP is about groups. And a smaller but organized group that knows how to pvp will kick the ass of a larger group unless the latter is MUCH larger. The only option here for balance is to make skill matter more in GROUP PvP.
    If you wander around solo with a "kill me" flag on and people with classes that specialize in ST burst drop you or a group grabs you as a free kill, not their fault. Find others from your faction and follow them.
    I mean, players spend a lot/most of their time solo in the world. Should you always try to find a group or just accept that you’re gonna get annoyed by some gankers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  16. #36
    Dreadlord Alkizon's Avatar
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    Arrow

    City Pop
    spontaneous and disorganized
    That's the core of wPvP. Exceptions are games in which part of content/progress/wealth is hidden behind mechanics relating to this (siege of castles/hubs/dungeons entrances (=resource zone), when another group of people “manages” there). But if we touch title directly, then single and most modest question is very logical and instantly arises: what do you mean by balance? (what do you see under word "balanced" by yourself, taking into account that different classes should participate in combat (with this design, they shouldn't be that rubbish as happening in current, but taking into account all class advantages/disadvantages = strengths/weaknesses)). If you think that something like Overwatch (ex. any other MOBA game) can have any balance (any one that based on "heroes" with unique capabilities and abilities - can't have such balance, stuff, that they're trying to push, is already realized and it's something resembling CS style games, that is, where everyone is the same, absolutely same (absolutely equal to each other in opportunities and also lack of any progress system) and, by the way, only such design can easily fall under all rules of E-sports, only skill based and sessional), then you're cruelly mistaken in essence of this concept for current game.

    Essence of balance here hiding in making that each of representatives not only gives something unique and quite useful gain/function for the group, but also what will serve/necessary for its stable existence. Therefore, as long as they try to practice design "I'm a hero and win them all" in style for each class (I don't claim at all that they're well advanced in this direction, but this is due to the same things that has already been said about Overwatch example; and stupid subscribers continue to ask for such things from devs and whine on forums that "they're killing us! it's not fair!" ) there is no justice in such war, all methods are good in it. I think, that they're suspecting something about it, but I don't see any results of this in current design.

    I don’t say that those, who crying, aren't right, but it’s already (as never before) too far and long ago since system worked base on stone-scissors-paper principles, classes have lost all their “desserts”, only a “complex lunch” stayed which is required (and this is due to gameplay design for the sake of predetermination, max limitation of choice even in action: only just what is rotation, what is requirement, always necessary, which means is doomed to repeat with each fight, regardless of behavior and type of enemy). Actually, apparently, people really have something now to cry about... imo, <MoP> was the best and closest to design in this direction (universality, meaning E-Sport implies, and it doesn't matter in this case if I disagree with it, just in fact), classes tried to be “strong and cunning” in own way, but at the same time, most of them weren't stronger and more cunning than others + insufficiently killed organization of characteristics, but they cut only part of class and RPG mechanic back then (in principle, those which stupid Cataclysm turned into rudimentary, broke, deprived of significance and strength), stuff related to additional functionality began to move into expense of WoD, they finished the rest of it in Legion and began to feed you "temporary/limited" handouts...*looks at BFA* and now these is almost the only stuff that you have.

    So... how do YOU see balance notion here?
    (I suddenly realized that thread is trying to talk only about amount of both sides meat involved in action, which is generally outright nonsense with taking head quote into account, it's not only impossible, but also not necessary, all that is required for the process is to be addictive/interesting/fun and necessary(but not profitable)/inevitable *looks with laugh at WM toggle*= within un-cheat-able/glitch-less and solid shared world *looks with laugh at current world organization* (mhhh, battlegrounds obey this last rule at least, with only exception that you can get out of there, but this isn't wPvP in the end); by the way, I thought about it, and realized that WM fail probably is connected precisely with fact that they're still looking at wPvP through the prism of BG)

    ps. Did you notice a trick? Anyway, it will rest on classes design in this matter, which means it will also depend on talents design and significance, usefulness and forethought design of characteristics, and thus will also be tied to itemization system, and thus ultimately to organization of progress system, which imposes conditions on content design nature as a whole, etc. and etc. That is the "chain of life" for this game.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-07-29 at 11:33 AM.
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  17. #37
    They'd need to make shards more than just a zone thing, and I don't think people would want all those extra fps stutters, but yeah it'd be necessary, since zones are too big

    Flying is coming in a few months, and it'll be interesting to see how many more roaming deathsquads across a zone there are.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonus View Post
    I pull a Dr. Strange on them. I rez, stand there completely still and wait for them to kill me. Then I rez again, and repeat. Eventually they get bored.
    Hah. That's something I use to do, If I notice the player was persistent. "I got some time to kill, now let's see how long you can actually stand there lurking just to kill me". LOSER! You quit too soon. I am right here!!

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by White Goodman1 View Post
    Hah. That's something I use to do, If I notice the player was persistent. "I got some time to kill, now let's see how long you can actually stand there lurking just to kill me". LOSER! You quit too soon. I am right here!!
    My friend and I got ganked by a Priest who was skull to us. Since we couldn't fight back we took turns polypmorphing her until she gave up and logged. This was before diminishing returns on CC.

    On topic: I think balancing wpvp is probably not the right thing to work for anyway. I think wpvp'rs are probably just looking for a rush and don't really care about which class they play. I think they just want to win and will use whichever class is best for that. If I were Blizzard I'd create a server which was wpvp only and lock it out of every other server. No quests or instances, no AH, gear or anything else. Level and gear would scale to the zone you're in but would remove the level requirement for talents. I'd probably double or triple the number of mobs in every zone, add in serious natural disasters like volcano's, earthquakes, hurricanes, tidal waives etc along with giant world boss mobs like the reavers in Hellfire Peninsula. Probably leave in professions. The only rewards would be daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, and lifetime leader boards which could also be categorized by zone. Probably titles which aren't necessarily complimentary to the person who earned them.

  20. #40
    i was playing with warmode on the other day doing an assault. the alliance and horde pretty much left each other alone. World pvp isn't really a thing unless you go looking for it.

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