Blood Elf lifespan- would a player BE remember Suramar?

[mickybrighteyes]

Wow... I was thinking Blood Elves were all under five thousand years old at the most. A side effect of their departure from the old fonts of magic that eventually caused their change into 'high elves'. Some might have lived to that point or longer but would have been some sort of magically imbued being.

[Malikath]

Which means that with lifespans that long we should be swimming in elves.

you're forgetting the suicidal incompetence, it helps keep the numbers down.
same with gobbos.

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Honestly I don't think he is an exception. As I said, they just wanted for narrative reasons to present a character who has a reason to hate the night elves so that all the actions taken up until the burning would somehow become easier to digest and they did not even realize how much this fucks up the lore because their approach to writing a story is largely YOLO.

We here can of course come up with many reasons why this happens because we actually care about consistency but that's just us.

pretty much this, the female NE hunter class order hall introductory character disproves his theory along with the NE's true intentions during the BE starting quests in the ghostlands, which makes his entire motivation a joke borne of ignorance.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Emmarel_Shadewarden

[Sangris]

Honestly I don't think he is an exception. As I said, they just wanted for narrative reasons to present a character who has a reason to hate the night elves so that all the actions taken up until the burning would somehow become easier to digest and they did not even realize how much this fucks up the lore because their approach to writing a story is largely YOLO.

We here can of course come up with many reasons why this happens because we actually care about consistency but that's just us.

This is another case of Blizzard fucking up their lore by forgetting previous stuff. If they just remembered why the Blood Elves are in the Horde in the first place they'd already have a reason for Lorash to hate the Night Elves. The author even admitted he fucked up.
Their much-praised "loremasters" are really bad at their job.

[Nathasil]

Imagine you found out that when your ancestors were exiled there was still an entire city full of magic-users and they did jack-shit to save you? If i were Lorash i would go after the Nightborne with all of my unearthly edginess.

Just think about it: He is pissed to no end about Malfurion - a Night Elf who actually fought to save this world in the WotA but then did not want Lorash's ancestors in his lands. What would Lorash feel about Night Elves who did NOT fight and then did NOT want his ancestors in their land to boot?

Yeah, i would say Lorash would hate them. A lot.

[Malikath]

This is another case of Blizzard fucking up their lore by forgetting previous stuff. If they just remembered why the Blood Elves are in the Horde in the first place they'd already have a reason for Lorash to hate the Night Elves. The author even admitted he fucked up.
Their much-praised "loremasters" are really bad at their job.

and i quote "isn't falstad dead?".

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Imagine you found out that when your ancestors were exiled there was still an entire city full of magic-users and they did jack-shit to save you?

except they did, atleast twice.

[Nathasil]

except they did, atleast twice.

Would you elaborate, please? What exactly did the Suramar-Highborne do to help their fellow Higborne when they were cast into exile?

[mickybrighteyes]

Lifespan isn't the issue, in my eyes. A person's memory however...do you remember events in your life from last year, 10 years ago, 20? I think it's safe to assume that even elves that lived during the events of Suramar may have completely forgotten about it, among other things.

to what degree are you expecting to recall?

I remember events in my life going back to like 25~ years ago with things only completely beyond normal recognition for like the time before I was 6, and I'm near 30 with no real mental training to speak of. I'd imagine anyone with normal brain function would be able to retain and recall major events and fond memories for as long as they live unless they themselves go senile (something not exactly typical unless sustaining head injuries or in extreme old age for a given person).

[derpkitteh]

Imagine you found out that when your ancestors were exiled there was still an entire city full of magic-users and they did jack-shit to save you? If i were Lorash i would go after the Nightborne with all of my unearthly edginess.

Just think about it: He is pissed to no end about Malfurion - a Night Elf who actually fought to save this world in the WotA but then did not want Lorash's ancestors in his lands. What would Lorash feel about Night Elves who did NOT fight and then did NOT want his ancestors in their land to boot?

Yeah, i would say Lorash would hate them. A lot.

the nightborne didn't know shit about anything.

like 99% of them thought the world outside the bubble was a demon-infested hellscape.

[mickybrighteyes]

Would you elaborate, please? What exactly did the Suramar-Highborne do to help their fellow Higborne when they were cast into exile?

I'm hoping they just mean the stumbling upon ancient cities of their exiled ancestors part and not the doing things part.

[Nathasil]

the nightborne didn't know shit about anything.

like 99% of them thought the world outside the bubble was a demon-infested hellscape.

That is not true. They still had all of their magic and knew very, very well what was going on outside their bubble. They even have creatures from all over the world in their zoo and claim to be masters of teleportation. They saw what happened to the other Night Elves....they knew that Malfurion + Tyrande would probably be pissed about them hiding behind their shield...and they did simply not WANT to take in the refugees, either. So they went with the Trump-Version: Build a wall and the rest of the world can go fuck itself.

The ancestors of the current Blood Elves decided (very late, but they did) to join the current Night Elves in the WotA...and then attacked them over the new Well of Eternity, which caused Malfurion to exile them. This is the reason why Lorash hates Malfurion.

Just for a second, imagine what Lorash would actually feel towards Suramar....an entire city full of Highborne, turning their backs on his Ancestors in the WotA and then again afterwards when they were in dire need of a new home. Why would he hate them any less than he hates Malfurion? Malfurion did not sit on his ass sipping arc-wine the last 10.000 years when Lorash's ancestors suffered so much. Malfurion and his people actually suffered as well. The Nightborne did not!

[Aucald]

Honestly I don't think he is an exception. As I said, they just wanted for narrative reasons to present a character who has a reason to hate the night elves so that all the actions taken up until the burning would somehow become easier to digest and they did not even realize how much this fucks up the lore because their approach to writing a story is largely YOLO.

We here can of course come up with many reasons why this happens because we actually care about consistency but that's just us.

They could create narrative reasons to do that without making Lorash 2x the normal age of a High/Blood Elf - he could've had his ancestors die due to perceived Kaldorei indifference, or his parents could have instilled a legacy of racial hatred. There are a number of easy narrative ways to make Lorash's hatred of Malfurion and the Kaldorei pronounced without a seeming retcon to the established High/Blood Elven lifespan.

It is, at current, an unknown unknown - we know very little of his character beyond his appearance at the end of Legion and in "A Good War." I could well be wrong, but given the established knowledge of a variety of means to become longer-lived or effectively immortal in Warcraft, I think Occam's Razor leans more toward that than acknowledgement of a retcon on the part of the writers.

[Malikath]

Would you elaborate, please? What exactly did the Suramar-Highborne do to help their fellow Higborne when they were cast into exile?

nice goal-posting, suramar and the azhara-allied didn't do shit but the rebels who eventually founded the druidic order and planted teldrassil as a new home/energy font sent rangers of which Emmarel Shadewarden was one.
then prior to the re-opening of the dark portal in BC during the ghostlands segement of the BE starting quests if you bothered to actually read the readable-object books lying around and read-able grey items from the NE rangers you learn they're trying to help the BEs heal the ghostlands and purge the undead.

maybe you should drop the tude and go bitch at your english teacher for your apparent lack of points in the reading skill, don't feel bad though blizzard's top loremasters are just as bad at it.

[derpkitteh]

That is not true. They still had all of their magic and knew very, very well what was going on outside their bubble. They even have creatures from all over the world in their zoo and claim to be masters of teleportation. They saw what happened to the other Night Elves....they knew that Malfurion + Tyrande would probably be pissed about them hiding behind their shield...and they did simply not WANT to take in the refugees, either. So they went with the Trump-Version: Build a wall and the rest of the world can go fuck itself.

The ancestors of the current Blood Elves decided (very late, but they did) to join the current Night Elves in the WotA...and then attacked them over the new Well of Eternity, which caused Malfurion to exile them. This is the reason why Lorash hates Malfurion.

Just for a second, imagine what Lorash would actually feel towards Suramar....an entire city full of Highborne, turning their backs on his Ancestors in the WotA and then again afterwards when they were in dire need of a new home. Why would he hate them any less than he hates Malfurion? Malfurion did not sit on his ass sipping arc-wine the last 10.000 years when Lorash's ancestors suffered so much. Malfurion and his people actually suffered as well. The Nightborne did not!

only the leadership knew, and they were all killed in the rebellion.

dath'remar did NOT attack the night elves, they were just exiled immediately despite all they did to help. it was a stupid, shortsighted move.

anyone that was actually alive back then would have plenty reason to dislike the night elves, and to be incensed at the acceptance of the shendralar. it's just wrong that they made him old enough to be alive back then.

[mickybrighteyes]

That is not true. They still had all of their magic and knew very, very well what was going on outside their bubble.

Citation please. Cause our interactions with the nightfallen seem to indicate something else all together.

They even have creatures from all over the world in their zoo and claim to be masters of teleportation. They saw what happened to the other Night Elves....they knew that Malfurion + Tyrande would probably be pissed about them hiding behind their shield...and they did simply not WANT to take in the refugees, either. So they went with the Trump-Version: Build a wall and the rest of the world can go fuck itself.

I don't recall any real info on the zoo to indicate it's origins or their method of attraction acquisition. And hell I don't think there was any real awareness of the world beyond the sea since Surumar was probably the only thing not immediately shaken up by the sundering , though I'm now wondering what was up with the whole raising of islands to reach Sargeras' Tomb back in the third war.

[Varodoc]

Magister Umbric states that he hasn't forgotten Zandalari barbarism during the Troll Wars, meaning that he is 3.000+ years old. And he doesn't even look old, in fact he is still very handsome. Alleria Windrunner was also stated to be 3.000 years old, a veteran of the great Troll Wars, in fact one of her many titles is "Troll-Hunter". But that was stated in the Warcraft II manual if I am not mistaken and thus could have been retconned.

[Aucald]

A retcon is intentional. "Oops, I didn't think my character who will only appear here and maybe in some cameo completely changes the fundamentals of high elf society" is not a retcon, it's just sloppy writing.

Not necessarily, retcons can be accidental as well. The existence of the Draenei is one such accidental retcon as Metzen forgot the Eredar were originally one of the first demonic races imprisoned by Sargeras prior to his fall to corruption.

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[Combatbutler]

They could create narrative reasons to do that without making Lorash 2x the normal age of a High/Blood Elf - he could've had his ancestors die due to perceived Kaldorei indifference, or his parents could have instilled a legacy of racial hatred. There are a number of easy narrative ways to make Lorash's hatred of Malfurion and the Kaldorei pronounced without a seeming retcon to the established High/Blood Elven lifespan.

It is, at current, an unknown unknown - we know very little of his character beyond his appearance at the end of Legion and in "A Good War." I could well be wrong, but given the established knowledge of a variety of means to become longer-lived or effectively immortal in Warcraft, I think Occam's Razor leans more toward that than acknowledgement of a retcon on the part of the writers.

It is not only him his mother also lived until the third war, he had to put her down, because she had been brought back as scourge and she experienced the exile.

[mickybrighteyes]

Not necessarily, retcons can be accidental as well. The existence of the Draenei is one such accidental retcon as Metzen forgot the Eredar were originally one of the first demonic races imprisoned by Sargeras prior to his fall to corruption.

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don't forget the draenei as some sort of resident of draenor were what we later saw as the lost ones. Akama looking like a straight up fully tainted lost one while under Illidan's command.

[Destinas]

Any sort of data for that is all over the place.

Dath'Remar Sunstrider was alive during the War of the Ancients 10,000 years ago, and 7,300 years ago he took the Highborne to the Eastern Kingdoms, founding Quel'thalas. However, he is not alive today. According to Blood of the Highborne, Anasterian Sunstrider is Dath'Remar's great grandson, making Kael his great-great grandson. However, Anasterian's rule lasted 2,800 years. So, Dath'Remar's son and grandson apparently didn't rule or live for very long within that span, compared to other elves. It's also mentioned in Blood of the Highborne that Anasterian was "ancient" in Thalassian elf standards, being over 3,800 years old.

However, it's mentioned in A Thousand Years of War that all High/Blood Elves have "something akin to" immortality, due to the Sunwell. However, in-game we see different elves turning to different sources of magic due to either the destruction of the Sunwell or their vicinity (or lack thereof) to the Sunwell. So, age may be affected by the Sunwell, as well. The Nightborne lived for over 10,000 years due to the Nightwell, despite being a different source of energy than the Well of Eternity and the Sunwell, so that claim isn't entirely incorrect.

The only known Thalassian elf (stated) to have naturally lived for 7,800 years is Lorash Sunbeam, who was born in Tirisfal Glades when the Highborne were exiled from Kalimdor. His mother, who probably lived much before all that, was killed and raised as a Scourge during the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas, meaning she lived much longer than even Lorash. Alleria has lived for an extra 1,000 years unnaturally due to her time in the Twisting Nether, as well as her training among the Lightforged and her connection to the Void - she could very well be immortal (despite not being Lightforged herself, she's somewhat "Shadowforged").

So, it's unlikely that a Blood Elf, High Elf, or Void Elf would remember Suramar from 10,000 years ago. But, it's also not an exact science with different information from in-game, novels, Chronicle, the Warcraft Encyclopedia, and other sources.

[Aucald]

It is not only him his mother also lived until the third war, he had to put her down, because she had been brought back as scourge and she experienced the exile.

Might be something congenital to his family, perhaps; whatever mutation occurred to the originally Kaldorei Highborne that made them into High Elves might not have fully occurred to his line granting them extended lifespans (or perhaps didn't fully withdraw their immortality). Hard to say, really.

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don't forget the draenei as some sort of resident of draenor were what we later saw as the lost ones. Akama looking like a straight up fully tainted lost one while under Illidan's command.

If I recall, the original Draenei weren't connected to the Eredar at all - they were one of the humanoid inhabitants of Draenor, just another sentient race of that world. Their origin story was later retconned with TBC - the Draenei were explained to originally have been Eredar who opted not to follow Sargeras and left Argus, eventually settling on Draenor in its early history. This also included a new mutation in their devolution into the Lost Ones as the Krokul or Broken. Originally in WC3: TFT no pure Draenei existed anymore, they were all mutated by transformation of Draenor into Outland into Lost One form (and they all had the general look of Akama). Now Akama sort of hovers between the state of Broken and Lost One, with elements of both, whereas the rest of his people are more or less normal Broken.