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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Sargeras avatar was designed to be weak enough to be defeated by the mom of Medivh and possess her womb but still doesn't explain why nobody from the scourge was concerned that Illidan was destroying icecrown, at the very least Kel'thuzad should had send some dks or cultist to undermine Illidan. He may have outplayed the legion but he can't foresee Illidan using a powerful spell to destroy him and which will harm his control over the deads? Yeah maybe some plot holes but still outplaying the legion has become a trend if we count others characters like Locus-Walker, the draenei, Naarus, N'zoth and Eonar
    So what? In the end he did survive, Arthas BTFO Illidan, and Ner'zhul + Arthas become "the most powerful entity of Azeroth".
    Of course after that WoW makes a joke of the scourge, but it's another story.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Sargeras avatar was designed to be weak enough to be defeated by the mom of Medivh and possess her womb but still doesn't explain why nobody from the scourge was concerned that Illidan was destroying icecrown, at the very least Kel'thuzad should had send some dks or cultist to undermine Illidan. He may have outplayed the legion but he can't foresee Illidan using a powerful spell to destroy him and which will harm his control over the deads? Yeah maybe some plot holes but still outplaying the legion has become a trend if we count others characters like Locus-Walker, the draenei, Naarus, N'zoth and Eonar
    Ner’zhul and Scourge have no idea that Illidan is behind the spell. No one does except for Malfurion. And the only reason for that is he communes with nature in Lordaeron and it shows Malfurion a vision of what Illidan is doing. Arthas is busy trying to make a new Scourge kingdom. He only gets recalled when the Illidari invade Northrend. Even then the Legion tries to help Illidan and uses the Nathrezim to try and kill Arthas

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    So what? In the end he did survive, Arthas BTFO Illidan, and Ner'zhul + Arthas become "the most powerful entity of Azeroth".
    Of course after that WoW makes a joke of the scourge, but it's another story.
    Oh, with that I fully agree with you, both Ner'zhul and Arthas were a powerful and terrible duo

    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Ner’zhul and Scourge have no idea that Illidan is behind the spell. No one does except for Malfurion. And the only reason for that is he communes with nature in Lordaeron and it shows Malfurion a vision of what Illidan is doing. Arthas is busy trying to make a new Scourge kingdom. He only gets recalled when the Illidari invade Northrend. Even then the Legion tries to help Illidan and uses the Nathrezim to try and kill Arthas
    The Nathrezim were only getting rid of Arthas and probably figure out what to do later. Still I wonder how Ner'zhul didn't sense the massive earthquake that were happening since Illidan started to cast the spell
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  4. #44
    I actually think what they did with KJ has been one of blizzard's better writing moves


    Legion KJ.....simply didn't care who won. I don't even think in the end he was afraid of Sargaras. He sounded tired, knew he'd made the wrong choices but just wanted to see it through to the end.

  5. #45
    What portrayal? Kil'Jaeden was entirely absent until we reached Avatar of Sargeras. That would have been fine if it were revealed that he'd been playing us all along somehow. Like have the Pillars of Creation be what frees the Avatar rather than just Kil'Jaeden. Maiden could have been attacking us not because she was malfunctioning, but rather because we just woke the Avatar seriously what the hell.

    I actually like the idea that he was planning this all along, one of the characters that we play alongside could have been Kil'Jaeden. Khadgar, maybe? He appeared pretty much out of nowhere, looked different, told us to let Gul'dan go, and was commanding us, the alleged commander, for most of the time in between. Then we do the broken shore 2, but unlike live, we use the pillars here. A burst of green fire emerges from the Tomb, knocking Dalaran out of the sky and crashing into Suramar. Kil'Jaeden's deception is revealed, and we care about him for reasons other than his name.

    tl;dr more deception from the deceiver plz.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TeXD View Post
    I actually think what they did with KJ has been one of blizzard's better writing moves


    Legion KJ.....simply didn't care who won. I don't even think in the end he was afraid of Sargaras. He sounded tired, knew he'd made the wrong choices but just wanted to see it through to the end.
    Which is complete butchering of his character, because he thought he chose RIGHT and felt betrayed by Velen, taking it extremely personal.

    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    tl;dr more deception from the deceiver plz.
    Implying that Blizzard writers are even capable of writing such twists.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Implying that Blizzard writers are even capable of writing such twists.
    That is Ner'zhul's story. Deceived by KJ pretending to be someone important to him.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    That is Ner'zhul's story. Deceived by KJ pretending to be someone important to him.
    Should have specified "current" writers.

  9. #49
    I still think it was epic. They used his link to Velen to really make the long conflict between the draenei and the legion personal to the players, then showed him questioning Sargeras in the release cinematic, then an awesome boss fight, that touching moment between the two of them, and finally leading to the extreme consequence of the portal opening.

    The whole thing with the Legion is they need someone on the other side to open the portal to bring them in, so of course they needed AU Gul'dan. He was the best character to come out of WOD.

    I mean they could have focused on Kil'jaeden's relationship to Illidan more for example, but every narrative can only contain so many characters at once, and we still got traces of that with the DH campaign.

    I really just disagree with you on everything. "Legion could have been more epic" when the ending cinematic was friggin' this:


  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I still think it was epic. They used his link to Velen to really make the long conflict between the draenei and the legion personal to the players, then showed him questioning Sargeras in the release cinematic, then an awesome boss fight, that touching moment between the two of them, and finally leading to the extreme consequence of the portal opening.

    The whole thing with the Legion is they need someone on the other side to open the portal to bring them in, so of course they needed AU Gul'dan. He was the best character to come out of WOD.

    I mean they could have focused on Kil'jaeden's relationship to Illidan more for example, but every narrative can only contain so many characters at once, and we still got traces of that with the DH campaign.

    I really just disagree with you on everything. "Legion could have been more epic" when the ending cinematic was friggin' this:

    And what exactly is "epic" about this ending? its just plain stupid. him ramming that sword in there should cause destruction that would make cata look like a little earthquake. what we get is one roasted zone. also the sword seemingly decreases in size right after the cinematic lmao, because you can clearly see its hilt is in fucking outer space, yet when we cleanse the swords corruption, its suddenly not even half the size anymore. its the most obvious "fuck any logic we have left, just make it look COOL" thing blizz has done so far, and thats saying a lot.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    They tried to humanize Kil'jaeden and failed horribly. You can't humanize a demonic overlord and expect him to remain epic. Some characters work better as one-dimensional forces of nature. Imagine if Deathwing started moping around and whining about how bad N'Zoth is. That's exactly what Kil'jaeden did in Legion. Not everyone has to be a multi-dimensional, deep, complex character with internal struggles. Sometimes you just want a demon lord who's out to whoop your ass.
    Well we still have Archimonde to fill that role, I am sure that vile goat is still around and plotting already
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Well we still have Archimonde to fill that role, I am sure that vile goat is still around and plotting already
    Dead in the nether, so dead-dead. Even if the mythic version wasn't canon, we still took away Argus, which was being used to fuel the demons coming back in years rather than millennia. He...


  13. #53
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    If I was writing it, Guldan shows up in Nighthold but escapes one last time. In Tomb Guldan is the last boss and opens a portal to Argus. Kiljaeden is the final boss of Legion.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Dead in the nether, so dead-dead. Even if the mythic version wasn't canon, we still took away Argus, which was being used to fuel the demons coming back in years rather than millennia. He...

    Yeah probably he is done for but then again Blizzard always pull crap like that, I mean the freaking Derek some low level human that wasn't even mentioned until this expansion was resurrected to give more spotlight to humans, Archimonde could still open some arcs for the goat men and women which aren't much after defeating the Legion
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Which is complete butchering of his character, because he thought he chose RIGHT and felt betrayed by Velen, taking it extremely personal.



    Implying that Blizzard writers are even capable of writing such twists.
    It's not really a butchering. It's quite possible that he's changed his mind over time in regards to choice. That was the whole point of the cinematic. He was tired.

  16. #56
    In my mind, Alt!Gul'dan was never a character. Kil'jaeden was the one who killed Varian, and Elisande was the final boss in the Nighthold.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by TeXD View Post
    It's not really a butchering. It's quite possible that he's changed his mind over time in regards to choice. That was the whole point of the cinematic. He was tired.
    Allmighty demon lord was tired.

    And people wonder why this is going all to shit.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    As an avid WarCraft 3 player that one thing really just shit all over the WarCraft 3 story. In WarCraft 3 Ner'Zhul was a total badass. He corrupted Arthas and orchestrated events around the world from a block of ice in Northrend. Arthas was a capable body, he wasn't really a great character, a lot of the writing for him was cheesy, but he had his moments. War 3's cliffhanger ending with "Oh they have one body, how does that work? What's next for the lich king?" was great and I had such great expectations for Wrath of the Lich King only for The Lich King to turn out to be a bumbling idiot throughout most of the expansion. "Oh I'll destroy you meddling adventurers next time!"

    It turns out this is because Arthas used his suddenly amazing mental ability (lol) to destroy Ner'zhul. It's funny because for the denizens of Azeroth and the player character and probably most of the lore characters they don't even know Ner'zhul, it's all Arthas to them. Arthas gets credit for a lot of what Ner'zhul accomplished.

    It's okay though because Ner'zhul was back in Warlords! .... Only to die in a dungeon.
    I've always said this. WotLK with Arthas destroying/banishing Ner'Zhul and "there must always be a LK" was the biggest lorerape they ever did. WoD and its "the same BL and the same singular demons exist across all different timelines" was a close 2nd.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
    Holyfury armory

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Allmighty demon lord was tired.

    And people wonder why this is going all to shit.
    Yeah well after what, a gazillion years worth of failures I didn't expect him to greet the next attempt with the same moustache twirling enthusiasm as year 1.

    Gone to shit? Where have you been? The story has always been juvenile nonsense, at least with this they changed it up a bit unintentionally or not.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    What I'd have done:

    Keep the legion invasions on the mainland as relevant content throughout legion. Instead of having invasions on the Broken Isle zones, keep them active on rotation elsewhere (and possibly add more as time went by) and include them as a separate emissary goal/reputation. This would have made the threat to Azeroth feel real.
    On Argus I'd have had the players, Illidan and Velen actually trapped on Argus and instead of us saving them, we'd be the ones saved by the Army of the Light. Lorewise, a stable connection would not exist until 7.3.5 and Antorus. Add a scenario that gives you a HS to the Xenedar at the end so everyone who wants to go to Argus has it and can move back and forth only through HS. This I think might mirror the feeling elicited by Vashj'ir; in Vashj'ir storywise we were trapped underwater and could not really leave until near the end of the zone. A feeling of dread would have made Argus feel dangerous.
    Yes, it would solve all Legion lore problems. Especially if Kil'jaeden gets to be boss right before/instead of Argus.

    All I would add would be 7.3.5 cinematic where we open great portal for Acherus, Fel Hammer, Dalaran and faction warships.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

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