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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Allmighty demon lord was tired.

    And people wonder why this is going all to shit.
    Yeah well after what, a gazillion years worth of failures I didn't expect him to greet the next attempt with the same moustache twirling enthusiasm as year 1.

    Gone to shit? Where have you been? The story has always been juvenile nonsense, at least with this they changed it up a bit unintentionally or not.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    What I'd have done:

    Keep the legion invasions on the mainland as relevant content throughout legion. Instead of having invasions on the Broken Isle zones, keep them active on rotation elsewhere (and possibly add more as time went by) and include them as a separate emissary goal/reputation. This would have made the threat to Azeroth feel real.
    On Argus I'd have had the players, Illidan and Velen actually trapped on Argus and instead of us saving them, we'd be the ones saved by the Army of the Light. Lorewise, a stable connection would not exist until 7.3.5 and Antorus. Add a scenario that gives you a HS to the Xenedar at the end so everyone who wants to go to Argus has it and can move back and forth only through HS. This I think might mirror the feeling elicited by Vashj'ir; in Vashj'ir storywise we were trapped underwater and could not really leave until near the end of the zone. A feeling of dread would have made Argus feel dangerous.
    Yes, it would solve all Legion lore problems. Especially if Kil'jaeden gets to be boss right before/instead of Argus.

    All I would add would be 7.3.5 cinematic where we open great portal for Acherus, Fel Hammer, Dalaran and faction warships.
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

  3. #63
    I think the worst affront of Legion Kil'jaeden was his new model, old tired spacegoat compared to the form of a true Demon Lord we witnessed in Sunwell. He was so underwhelming in Legion that I couldn't even care or have the incentive to take him down on heroic mode...

  4. #64
    I still think the main story hook for WoD was an interesting idea that could have worked well enough.

    But claiming that there's just one Legion that transcends all realities - it's just plot hole after plot hole. Where are the other Kil'Jaeden/Archemonde once those Eredar become demons? If Sargeras is Multiversal, are the Titans? Why isn't all of existence destroyed by now?

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    I still think the main story hook for WoD was an interesting idea that could have worked well enough.

    But claiming that there's just one Legion that transcends all realities - it's just plot hole after plot hole. Where are the other Kil'Jaeden/Archemonde once those Eredar become demons? If Sargeras is Multiversal, are the Titans? Why isn't all of existence destroyed by now?
    Yes, it would only make sense for OG demons. Otherwise we would be able to gather a legion of good Archimondes.
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

  6. #66
    Not to derail the thread, but Gul'dan should have been the following:

    a) The AU should have never occurred.
    b) KJ contacts the Shadow Council, and the Shadow Council sends someone to the Broken Isles.
    c) Once they're there, the SC locates Gul'dan's remains, and they infuse his spirit into the husk of a fallen orc (or human), i.e. he's given the First Generation of DKs treatment.
    d) Once alive, KJ instructs Gul'dan on the new plot, and the established lore from LGN proceeds from there.
    Last edited by In Ogres We Trust; 2019-03-27 at 05:40 PM.

  7. #67
    I don't get why people think Kil'jaeden wouldn't question his life choices if Sargeras failed to take over Azeroth three times in a row. I mean, if you seriously believed that he was an unbeatable god, and then watched that happen, you'd question whether he was unbeatable, too.

    Heck, in just the raid before it, Elisande eventually realized there WAS a way to beat the Legion when she was firmly believing she could only save her people by surrendering. Turns out she WAS right about that, but she was wrong in thinking there was no way to stop them (and it happened to require her to sacrifice herself both by selling out and then dying afterward).
    Last edited by arcaneshot; 2019-03-24 at 12:18 AM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by In Ogres We Trust View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but Gul'dan should have been the following:

    a) The AU should have never occurred.
    b) KJ contacts the Shadow Council, and the Shadow Council sends someone to the Broken Isles.
    The Shadow Council is dead though.

  9. #69
    THey required Gul'dan ease of access from Old Draenor to Azezoth to open the Portal at Tomb of Sargeras. KJ was no where close to be able to do it himself.

  10. #70
    Well i like how the ended the world famous Burning Legion in the Antorus the Burning Throne raid.
    Pretty much none of the famous demons was in there becuse they already died in filler raids.

    Archimonde/Mannoroth wasn not even in legion becuse they died in wod becuse blizz decided not to use grom as the last boss for the expansion, so they were thrown into the loot wagon.

    Kil'jaeden got some wimp death on his starwars spaceship.

    Tichondrius, the former leader of all dreadlords...died early as a minor boss. Mal'Ganis was there at the start for the battle of the broken shore, then they never used him again...Well i could go on forever.

    But most of all. Archimonde/Kil'jaeden, they have represented Burning Legion for the warcraft franchise the last 15 years. They were close to gods, that armies could not even touch. but the allmighty adventures killed them with no casualties lorewise? neither one of them was in the last raid for the burning legion.

    But yeah we got to fight Imonar the Soulhunter, a godamn bountyhunter. Felhounds of Sargeras..wat. I miss the BL from wc3, used portals and you know..fantasy stuff..and not this spaceship starwars bs. They could have finished Legion with some godlike fight against Archimonde/Kil'jaeden but nope. Why did they even use Archimonde for wod...blizz could have used anyone, but the used Archimonde as a lootbag simply becuse he was famous to bait more players.

    Legion as a expansion was fun, but i hated it lorewise.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by In Ogres We Trust View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but Gul'dan should have been the following:

    a) The AU should have never occurred.
    b) KJ contacts the Shadow Council, and the Shadow Council sends someone to the Broken Isles.
    c) Once they're there, the SC locates Gul'dan's remains, and they infused his spirit into the husk of a fallen orc (or human), i.e. he's given the First Generation of DKs treatment.
    d) Once alive, KJ instructs Gul'dan on the new plot, and the established lore from LGN proceeds from there.
    Better option. Kairoz goes back in time and saves Gul'dan in the tomb.

  12. #72
    Quite intrigued by the places the boss fights got place, am under the impression that neither Archie nor Kiljaeden have had true death.
    The most interesting thing Kiljaeden says is "You betrayed Argus and condemned it to burn. Who is truly the Deceiver, brother?" on the ring from his loot table. Thats says a lot about his thoughts and goals and could imply that there is some backstory that has still to unfold.

  13. #73
    I think KJ was wasted potential because they pulled ToS and the Broken Shore closer.

    Remember they scrapped the elf island Thal'Dranath for 7.2 and instead gave us the Broken Shore + ToS because they 'had something cooler for 7.3', which turned out to be Argus.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffe View Post
    But most of all. Archimonde/Kil'jaeden, they have represented Burning Legion for the warcraft franchise the last 15 years. They were close to gods, that armies could not even touch. but the allmighty adventures killed them with no casualties lorewise? neither one of them was in the last raid for the burning legion.

    But yeah we got to fight Imonar the Soulhunter, a godamn bountyhunter. Felhounds of Sargeras..wat. I miss the BL from wc3, used portals and you know..fantasy stuff..and not this spaceship starwars bs. They could have finished Legion with some godlike fight against Archimonde/Kil'jaeden but nope. Why did they even use Archimonde for wod...blizz could have used anyone, but the used Archimonde as a lootbag simply becuse he was famous to bait more players.
    and assaulting the demon homeworld with no big casualties as well.

    refugees who are on Argus for 25,000 years but no one noticed them because.... something... yeah...

    - - - Updated - - -

    btw, this will probably happen with Azshara as well.

    SADAFASFKAKFKAKKFKFBHGFNG WHAT DID I DO TO MY PEOPLE (ELVES)!?!?!?!?!!? THIS IS WRONG!!! and get's f***ed in an unspectacular dead cinematic that I could only be disappointed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    They tried to humanize Kil'jaeden and failed horribly. You can't humanize a demonic overlord and expect him to remain epic. Some characters work better as one-dimensional forces of nature. Imagine if Deathwing started moping around and whining about how bad N'Zoth is. That's exactly what Kil'jaeden did in Legion. Not everyone has to be a multi-dimensional, deep, complex character with internal struggles. Sometimes you just want a demon lord who's out to whoop your ass.
    Everyone must be relatable unfortunately.

    that's why we have Thanos crying in MCU...
    Last edited by DemonHunter18; 2019-03-25 at 10:04 PM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Yes, it would solve all Legion lore problems. Especially if Kil'jaeden gets to be boss right before/instead of Argus.

    All I would add would be 7.3.5 cinematic where we open great portal for Acherus, Fel Hammer, Dalaran and faction warships.
    I'd actually have brought Tempest Keep through.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaterasu65 View Post
    KJ was also depicted a little guilty for betraying his world and race while not achieving the sought results. He seemed as if he understood his decision was the wrong one since all his plans proved fruitless. Also Velen's more dynamic presence during ToS probably made him even more sad. I kinda feel he regretted his path because he could still be with Velen and that his main motive to keep on was to see his bestie destroyed so he can eradicate his hesitancy and conflicting emotions. I definitely did not see the Deceiver during his spotlight patch.
    Exactly this, if you did Argus quest you can see that they were beloved leaders and suddenly betrayed and committed atrocities against their own race to join the Legion.

    And KJ was pretty banged up already, he was defeated/failed many times in War3 and Sunwell.

    I agree that he could get a lot more screen time but to be fair, much more interesting characters got way less development, the fact that he showed regret and got a cinematic was good enough for a generic villain that he was.
    Ah, you think there is bias for ally? You merely adopted the faction bias. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see alliance have a nice thing until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but bullshit!

    "My name is Legion: for we are many." - Mark 5:9
    My characters :3

  17. #77

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by TeXD View Post
    Yeah well after what, a gazillion years worth of failures I didn't expect him to greet the next attempt with the same moustache twirling enthusiasm as year 1.
    That is the thing there were only a handful of failures in all this time, the legion has at least 99.9999% rate of success, Azeroth is the only world that ever managed to stand against them.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    That is the thing there were only a handful of failures in all this time, the legion has at least 99.9999% rate of success, Azeroth is the only world that ever managed to stand against them.
    There could be any number of worlds that they attacked multiple times until they got it right. They had time and numbers on their side after all.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    There could be any number of worlds that they attacked multiple times until they got it right. They had time and numbers on their side after all.
    But they all fell in the end, with the exception of Azeroth, so I'd still say they haven't really failed, what does it matter if mortals win a few battles if they can't win the war. Kil'jaeden suddenly having doubts was weird no matter how one looks at it.

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