Portrayal of Kil'jaeden in Legion

[Warferno]

I think the worst affront of Legion Kil'jaeden was his new model, old tired spacegoat compared to the form of a true Demon Lord we witnessed in Sunwell. He was so underwhelming in Legion that I couldn't even care or have the incentive to take him down on heroic mode...

[Mic_128]

I still think the main story hook for WoD was an interesting idea that could have worked well enough.

But claiming that there's just one Legion that transcends all realities - it's just plot hole after plot hole. Where are the other Kil'Jaeden/Archemonde once those Eredar become demons? If Sargeras is Multiversal, are the Titans? Why isn't all of existence destroyed by now?

[matrix123mko]

I still think the main story hook for WoD was an interesting idea that could have worked well enough.

But claiming that there's just one Legion that transcends all realities - it's just plot hole after plot hole. Where are the other Kil'Jaeden/Archemonde once those Eredar become demons? If Sargeras is Multiversal, are the Titans? Why isn't all of existence destroyed by now?

Yes, it would only make sense for OG demons. Otherwise we would be able to gather a legion of good Archimondes.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Not to derail the thread, but Gul'dan should have been the following:

a) The AU should have never occurred.
b) KJ contacts the Shadow Council, and the Shadow Council sends someone to the Broken Isles.
c) Once they're there, the SC locates Gul'dan's remains, and they infuse his spirit into the husk of a fallen orc (or human), i.e. he's given the First Generation of DKs treatment.
d) Once alive, KJ instructs Gul'dan on the new plot, and the established lore from LGN proceeds from there.

[arcaneshot]

I don't get why people think Kil'jaeden wouldn't question his life choices if Sargeras failed to take over Azeroth three times in a row. I mean, if you seriously believed that he was an unbeatable god, and then watched that happen, you'd question whether he was unbeatable, too.

Heck, in just the raid before it, Elisande eventually realized there WAS a way to beat the Legion when she was firmly believing she could only save her people by surrendering. Turns out she WAS right about that, but she was wrong in thinking there was no way to stop them (and it happened to require her to sacrifice herself both by selling out and then dying afterward).

[Mic_128]

Not to derail the thread, but Gul'dan should have been the following:

a) The AU should have never occurred.
b) KJ contacts the Shadow Council, and the Shadow Council sends someone to the Broken Isles.

The Shadow Council is dead though.

[Super Kami Dende]

THey required Gul'dan ease of access from Old Draenor to Azezoth to open the Portal at Tomb of Sargeras. KJ was no where close to be able to do it himself.

[Snuffe]

Well i like how the ended the world famous Burning Legion in the Antorus the Burning Throne raid.
Pretty much none of the famous demons was in there becuse they already died in filler raids.

Archimonde/Mannoroth wasn not even in legion becuse they died in wod becuse blizz decided not to use grom as the last boss for the expansion, so they were thrown into the loot wagon.

Kil'jaeden got some wimp death on his starwars spaceship.

Tichondrius, the former leader of all dreadlords...died early as a minor boss. Mal'Ganis was there at the start for the battle of the broken shore, then they never used him again...Well i could go on forever.

But most of all. Archimonde/Kil'jaeden, they have represented Burning Legion for the warcraft franchise the last 15 years. They were close to gods, that armies could not even touch. but the allmighty adventures killed them with no casualties lorewise? neither one of them was in the last raid for the burning legion.

But yeah we got to fight Imonar the Soulhunter, a godamn bountyhunter. Felhounds of Sargeras..wat. I miss the BL from wc3, used portals and you know..fantasy stuff..and not this spaceship starwars bs. They could have finished Legion with some godlike fight against Archimonde/Kil'jaeden but nope. Why did they even use Archimonde for wod...blizz could have used anyone, but the used Archimonde as a lootbag simply becuse he was famous to bait more players.

Legion as a expansion was fun, but i hated it lorewise.

[Good ol Stroggylos]

Quite intrigued by the places the boss fights got place, am under the impression that neither Archie nor Kiljaeden have had true death.
The most interesting thing Kiljaeden says is "You betrayed Argus and condemned it to burn. Who is truly the Deceiver, brother?" on the ring from his loot table. Thats says a lot about his thoughts and goals and could imply that there is some backstory that has still to unfold.

[Jamie081]

I think KJ was wasted potential because they pulled ToS and the Broken Shore closer.

Remember they scrapped the elf island Thal'Dranath for 7.2 and instead gave us the Broken Shore + ToS because they 'had something cooler for 7.3', which turned out to be Argus.

[DemonHunter18]

But most of all. Archimonde/Kil'jaeden, they have represented Burning Legion for the warcraft franchise the last 15 years. They were close to gods, that armies could not even touch. but the allmighty adventures killed them with no casualties lorewise? neither one of them was in the last raid for the burning legion.

But yeah we got to fight Imonar the Soulhunter, a godamn bountyhunter. Felhounds of Sargeras..wat. I miss the BL from wc3, used portals and you know..fantasy stuff..and not this spaceship starwars bs. They could have finished Legion with some godlike fight against Archimonde/Kil'jaeden but nope. Why did they even use Archimonde for wod...blizz could have used anyone, but the used Archimonde as a lootbag simply becuse he was famous to bait more players.

and assaulting the demon homeworld with no big casualties as well.

refugees who are on Argus for 25,000 years but no one noticed them because.... something... yeah...

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btw, this will probably happen with Azshara as well.

SADAFASFKAKFKAKKFKFBHGFNG WHAT DID I DO TO MY PEOPLE (ELVES)!?!?!?!?!!? THIS IS WRONG!!! and get's f***ed in an unspectacular dead cinematic that I could only be disappointed.

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They tried to humanize Kil'jaeden and failed horribly. You can't humanize a demonic overlord and expect him to remain epic. Some characters work better as one-dimensional forces of nature. Imagine if Deathwing started moping around and whining about how bad N'Zoth is. That's exactly what Kil'jaeden did in Legion. Not everyone has to be a multi-dimensional, deep, complex character with internal struggles. Sometimes you just want a demon lord who's out to whoop your ass.

Everyone must be relatable unfortunately.

that's why we have Thanos crying in MCU...

[Beerbill Society]

KJ was also depicted a little guilty for betraying his world and race while not achieving the sought results. He seemed as if he understood his decision was the wrong one since all his plans proved fruitless. Also Velen's more dynamic presence during ToS probably made him even more sad. I kinda feel he regretted his path because he could still be with Velen and that his main motive to keep on was to see his bestie destroyed so he can eradicate his hesitancy and conflicting emotions. I definitely did not see the Deceiver during his spotlight patch.

Exactly this, if you did Argus quest you can see that they were beloved leaders and suddenly betrayed and committed atrocities against their own race to join the Legion.

And KJ was pretty banged up already, he was defeated/failed many times in War3 and Sunwell.

I agree that he could get a lot more screen time but to be fair, much more interesting characters got way less development, the fact that he showed regret and got a cinematic was good enough for a generic villain that he was.

[sillag]

blizz dont write gud

[Combatbutler]

Yeah well after what, a gazillion years worth of failures I didn't expect him to greet the next attempt with the same moustache twirling enthusiasm as year 1.

That is the thing there were only a handful of failures in all this time, the legion has at least 99.9999% rate of success, Azeroth is the only world that ever managed to stand against them.

[Combatbutler]

There could be any number of worlds that they attacked multiple times until they got it right. They had time and numbers on their side after all.

But they all fell in the end, with the exception of Azeroth, so I'd still say they haven't really failed, what does it matter if mortals win a few battles if they can't win the war. Kil'jaeden suddenly having doubts was weird no matter how one looks at it.

[Super Dickmann]

But they all fell in the end, with the exception of Azeroth, so I'd still say they haven't really failed, what does it matter if mortals win a few battles if they can't win the war. Kil'jaeden suddenly having doubts was weird no matter how one looks at it.

It gets especially weird when you consider that not even after KJ is defeated do people like Illidan think the Legion is actually beaten or that Azeroth would survive long-term if they didn't hit first. And we see this to be true a bit later on, since at some point in the near future Sarg would've made his Dark Pantheon. It's likely reading too much into it, but if I wanted to explain it to myself I'd say that KJ was being sidelined by this point after he'd failed to deliver the world and Sargeras would soon no longer need him since he'd have the other titans to take his place.

[Beet]

Honestly as much as I loved Legions worlds and atmosphere, I was very much unhappy with their use of the bad guys. Sargeras should have been used more. Guldan should have died in WoD(instead of Archimonde) or survived Legion imo. And I think Argus should have been its own expansion but hey I get it. Blizzard wouldn’t have done a third expansion with Legion as the big bad guys so it put them in a rough spot.

I’m very glad we didn’t fight Sargeras of course, but I think we should have seen him more. Same with The Titans. I just hope they’re not done using the Titans.

[Jastall]

KJ's portrayal was absolutely bizzare. He got shunted off to a mid-patch while barely doing anything and was cast as some kind of reluctant figure sad about losing Argus. We were expected to see it as a poignant moment when he died, despite this guy being the engineer behind the beginning of the games, who's wiped out tons of species and most recently spent 25k years torturing and manipulating Velen's son, not to kill him, mind, but just to wrench the knife further in when those millennia passed. Making him a figure who's redeemed in some fashion, even if it just acceptance of Velen or mourning for his world is out of place.

Gul'dan on the other hand I was very happy with. Great Voice-acting, great story in the Tomb of Sargeras prelude bit. Damn shame he got so little screen time in the game itself. Kind of a trend with Legion villains. Must be why by Argus we'd exhausted the entire roster.

I never thought he was redeemed, more remorseful in his last moments and Velen, being the better man, still gave him his last rites despite hating the living daylights out of the guy.

KJ lacked presence for sure due to Blizzard spending all their 7.2 story $ on class campaign stuff, but what presence he actually had was OK as far as I'm concerned.

[McNeil]

Kil'jaeden's encounter with Illidan is where he actually felt like a real threatening villain:



The Sunwell art for Kil'jaeden pretty much kept his badass looks:



....... and now that we finally get to defeat him, he turns into this whiny bitch:



So something tells me that Kil'jaedens writers from WC3-TBC are not the same we got in Legion.

[Seylene]

I did feel that KJ didnt have enough of a buildup and a reminder to us all of just how much of an influence he was in the WC world. But I never really looked at it through the eyes of "Did we really need Gul'dan?" With that in mind I think you are right in that Gul did detract from KJ so now as much as I liked him as a char on his own I think KJ would have been the better Faceman for the whole legion push. And would have served to better give us exposition. Gul's spotlight was the broken shore we should have offed him right after that at the end of the broken isles questlines.