Google Stadia - Googles new game streaming platform

[LazarusLong]

I hope you're not confusing Hong Kong with Mainland China.

I'm not. Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Shanghai all have great mobile internet.

Define true 5G.

it's a 3GPP compliant 5G system.

https://www.3gpp.org/dynareport/Spec...=Rel-15&tech=4
https://www.gsma.com/futurenetworks/...tion_FINAL.pdf
https://www.gsma.com/futurenetworks/...on-guidelines/

[Krille]

Sweden, Finland and the UK (that i know of) will have "real" 5G internet early 2020 if not earlier. It was first tested in Sweden 3-4 years ago, so it's definitely not far away.

[Clozer]

I already got a very good computer and i can let him run anytime with sick internet. So this whole thing is completly useless for me. I wonder what kind of people buy these services.

[Krille]

I already got a very good computer and i can let him run anytime with sick internet. So this whole thing is completly useless for me. I wonder what kind of people buy these services.

I can see many ppl subscribing to Stadia. Frequent travelers, people that can't afford the big one-time cost of buying a PC, people that dont want a yuge stationary computer in your home. The list can be made long, for regular gamers the input lag will be the decider.

[Vash The Stampede]

Google wants to make this Cloud Gaming thing into reality not because of you or me, or even casual gamers but for the 13 year old impulse buyer. This service is aimed towards teenagers or younger who have parents that refuse to buy physical hardware for whatever reason but hope that parents are perfectly ok with buying $60 games on the Cloud. The idea that a child can reach for their parents credit card is kinda the corner stone for mobile gaming, and it seems that's the driving force behind Stadia. No adult well informed gamer will want this service.

I don't think this will work as you'll need some hardware to make it work, like a $70 gamepad. This kinda defeats the purpose of having underage children reach for their parents credit card without them knowing about it. If they can get their hands on a controller then why not a PS4 or Switch? The service seems to depend on the Chrome web browser, which might explain the recent changes to ad-blocking on Chrome. Do you really think free game streaming is free? You're going to see ads.

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I can see many ppl subscribing to Stadia. Frequent travelers, people that can't afford the big one-time cost of buying a PC, people that dont want a yuge stationary computer in your home. The list can be made long, for regular gamers the input lag will be the decider.

I see nobody subscribing to Stadia. If you travel then get a Switch or a decent laptop. You don't need more than $600 for a gaming PC. Also modern computers don't need to be huge either.

[Remilia]

I'm not. Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Shanghai all have great mobile internet.

Cause current data doesn't match what you want to think. If we're going by Ookla they are behind the US. If we're going by cable.co.uk they are waaaaaay behind the world.

it's a 3GPP compliant 5G system.

https://www.3gpp.org/dynareport/Spec...=Rel-15&tech=4
https://www.gsma.com/futurenetworks/...tion_FINAL.pdf
https://www.gsma.com/futurenetworks/...on-guidelines/

So you have no idea at all about 5G NR if all you do is link that with no specifics.
Are we talking about sub 6GHz, mmWave, NSA, SA, all of them?

[Puupi]

I do agree with the statement "cloud gaming is the future of gaming", however, that future is not here yet, maybe in 10-15 years, but not now.

This is my sentiment as well.

[Sevyvia]

Google says it will expand to anything with a Chrome browser

Well, there goes any chance I'm going to use it, then.

[Remilia]

Cause I have no idea why I decided to post this.
To put it this way, 5G NR being "compliant" is a dumb thing to put when you don't know wtf you're talking about. Deployment for NR is going to take a long time just due to the sheer nature of it. Deployment for FR2 is the one that everyone is excited for cause that's the bandwidth part. Verizon is already deploying "3GPP compliant" towers and nodes active for consumer use.

To speed up adoption with NR carriers are going to go with NSA, Non Standalone, network. This relies on LTE network as it's backbone cause it's easier really. FR2 with NSA allows for the stupid amount of bandwidth you can get but it won't be as efficient as a SA, Standalone, network.

Now, hopefully I'm not misremembering this part. NSA and SA differ by quite a few point. Currently LTE network packets are bidirectional, so download and upload have their own channel and happen simultaneously. This makes it a bit more inefficient. SA packets download and upload packets are different in that they're tied together. So for LTE a 40/20Mbps download/upload you'd always have 40/20. For NR it's best to not think of it as how much download speed you have or how much upload speed you have but just how much bandwidth you have. If you have 1Gbps bandwidth, that can be provisioned as 800/200, 500/500, 150/850, 999/1, etc. Packets made in a crude text visualization. [packet][dl]blob of request[dlend][ul]blob of request[ulend][packet]. In there will be meta information in how to provision the bandwidths for down/up and a bunch of other stuff that we will never see. This set up is more efficient but ultimately more complicated.

SA rollout isn't even slated for this year anyways. 5G NR is a blob of a lot of stuff from FR1 and FR2 to it's underlying network. Saying "complaint with 3GPP" is just woefully pointless cause it won't be NR if it's not compliant. It also won't work with any modems if it's not using the standard, because those modems are using the standard as defined. AT&T is a dumbass with the 5GE thing, but that's not to knock on others that are deploying 5G NR equipment.

There's also an odd difference in roll out in South Korea and the US anyways. SK is starting with FR1 and US is starting with FR2. Coverage will be better in SK but speeds will be worse and the other way around for US.

Some reason new post, too lazy to edit it in.

[LazarusLong]

Cause current data doesn't match what you want to think. If we're going by Ookla they are behind the US. If we're going by cable.co.uk they are waaaaaay behind the world.

I'm telling from the first-hand experience. Tools like Ookla are useless here because they don't have servers behind the Great Firewall. So inside China everything works blazing fast, but not when you try to connect to service outside China - the "Golden Shield" throttles connection.

[Krille]

I see nobody subscribing to Stadia. If you travel then get a Switch or a decent laptop. You don't need more than $600 for a gaming PC. Also modern computers don't need to be huge either.

So you really think Google just spent millions of dollars developing a platform that nobody will use? I think you're being a bit delusional here, sorry.

[Vash The Stampede]

So you really think Google just spent millions of dollars developing a platform that nobody will use? I think you're being a bit delusional here, sorry.

With the gaming industry today, lots of businesses are delusional when it comes to what the consumer wants. Especially lately with Games As a Live Service, DLC, and micro-transactions. Besides Nvidia's, Sony's, and a plethora of existing cloud gaming services that hasn't even scratched the industry, why would Google succeed? Because it's Google? Have you see their track record of failed multi-million dollar... things?

[Remilia]

I'm telling from the first-hand experience. Tools like Ookla are useless here because they don't have servers behind the Great Firewall. So inside China everything works blazing fast, but not when you try to connect to service outside China - the "Golden Shield" throttles connection.

So... just trust you? That... doesn't work. Either use data or not.
It's even weirder you refuse to acknowledge Ookla's number cause they actually paint China's internet in a decent light.

[kaelleria]

They literally haven't rolled out 5g anywhere in China yet. The Chinese Gov't just issued permits on Thursday. You can have good 4g bandwidth but that's still not 5G.

[LazarusLong]

So... just trust you? That... doesn't work. Either use data or not.
It's even weirder you refuse to acknowledge Ookla's number cause they actually paint China's internet in a decent light.

I'm an analyst, I can't accept Ookla numbers since I know that the research methodology is wrong. Just like pretty much every single other western analytics - since China's internet is, unfortunately, centralized and behind the wall.

There are few reports that are done from the inside. I believe China cache CDN company is doing them, for example. Chinese internet center (.cn) is another one.
Also Chinese broadband alliance

http://en.people.cn/n3/2019/0222/c90000-9548800.html
https://cnnic.com.cn/IDR/ReportDownl...1069195909.pdf
http://www.chinabda.cn/article/252696

As of the end of March this year, the proportion of fiber-optic broadband users in the country reached 91%, and the proportion of 4G users reached 75%. Average speed exceeded 30 mbit/s

[Krille]

With the gaming industry today, lots of businesses are delusional when it comes to what the consumer wants. Especially lately with Games As a Live Service, DLC, and micro-transactions. Besides Nvidia's, Sony's, and a plethora of existing cloud gaming services that hasn't even scratched the industry, why would Google succeed? Because it's Google? Have you see their track record of failed multi-million dollar... things?

Google+ could have been good but it entered the market too late. Self-driving cars can't be deemed a failure yet, bit early to tell. Nothing wrong with Google fiber. There is no big competitor on the cloud gaming market, there are some smaller companies (Shadow?) on the market but its open goal for Google.

Also there's one thing failing with delivering a concept and if that concept will be successful, there is definitely a market for cloud gaming, you can quote me on that in 2 years.

[Vash The Stampede]

Google+ could have been good but it entered the market too late.

Is Stadia early in the market? I already said that Nvidia, Sony, and a plethora of other cloud gaming services already exist and have been given a good deal of attention to make them work. The reason Google is excited is because the market this is aimed towards are people under the age of 20 who have access to their parents credit cards and see the Stadia button next to their favorite YouTuber who's playing a game. Google has a good amount of knowledge of how effective this is in the mobile market where children often get a hold of their parents credit cards and spend what seems like endless amounts of money. But this is also why Blizzard asked the all important question, "Don't you all have phones"? Both Google and Blizzard are aiming at a market that depends on underage people steeling their parents credit cards.

Self-driving cars can't be deemed a failure yet, bit early to tell.

Google was ahead with this technology but now they seem behind and doing nothing with it.

Nothing wrong with Google fiber.

Except they stopped expanding it and are even pulling out of certain cities.

There is no big competitor on the cloud gaming market, there are some smaller companies (Shadow?) on the market but its open goal for Google.

Playstation Now
Geforce Now
Parsec
Playkey.net
Paperspace
Vortex
Liquidsky
Simplay

And yes, Shadow.

Also there's one thing failing with delivering a concept and if that concept will be successful, there is definitely a market for cloud gaming, you can quote me on that in 2 years.

What market? Who wants this? Everyone from every forum and YouTube video I've ever seen agrees that cloud gaming is not for them. I'll quote you in 2 years and 10 years when nobody is interested in cloud gaming. As much as people want to harp on the data bandwidth, that isn't the main issue. The main issue is latency and that requires Google to break the laws of physics. In fact, here's a list of issues that cloud gaming will never fix.

#1 Latency
#2 ISP bandwidth restrictions
#3 Ownership rights to said games.
#4 Loss of image quality due to compression. You thought you're getting a high end PC for $10/month right?
#5 No mods
#6 Limited choice of where to buy games, and therefore higher prices.
#7 No Net Neutrality, so expect some ISP's to throttle that Stadia connection.

That's the stuff I can come up with at the top of my head. For what, to avoid buying a $600 PC or buying a Playstation 4 for like $250? I can find used PS4's for $180 off Ebay, which is like a tiny bit more than the Stadia's $130 required starter pack. Plus you can buy used games to save some money.

[Krille]

Is Stadia early in the market? I already said that Nvidia, Sony, and a plethora of other cloud gaming services already exist and have been given a good deal of attention to make them work. The reason Google is excited is because the market this is aimed towards are people under the age of 20 who have access to their parents credit cards and see the Stadia button next to their favorite YouTuber who's playing a game. Google has a good amount of knowledge of how effective this is in the mobile market where children often get a hold of their parents credit cards and spend what seems like endless amounts of money. But this is also why Blizzard asked the all important question, "Don't you all have phones"? Both Google and Blizzard are aiming at a market that depends on underage people steeling their parents credit cards.

Google was ahead with this technology but now they seem behind and doing nothing with it.

Except they stopped expanding it and are even pulling out of certain cities.

Playstation Now
Geforce Now
Parsec
Playkey.net
Paperspace
Vortex
Liquidsky
Simplay

And yes, Shadow.


What market? Who wants this? Everyone from every forum and YouTube video I've ever seen agrees that cloud gaming is not for them. I'll quote you in 2 years and 10 years when nobody is interested in cloud gaming. As much as people want to harp on the data bandwidth, that isn't the main issue. The main issue is latency and that requires Google to break the laws of physics. In fact, here's a list of issues that cloud gaming will never fix.

#1 Latency
#2 ISP bandwidth restrictions
#3 Ownership rights to said games.
#4 Loss of image quality due to compression. You thought you're getting a high end PC for $10/month right?
#5 No mods
#6 Limited choice of where to buy games, and therefore higher prices.
#7 No Net Neutrality, so expect some ISP's to throttle that Stadia connection.

That's the stuff I can come up with at the top of my head. For what, to avoid buying a $600 PC or buying a Playstation 4 for like $250? I can find used PS4's for $180 off Ebay, which is like a tiny bit more than the Stadia's $130 required starter pack. Plus you can buy used games to save some money.

Yea it might be bad in certain countries. But half of those negatives doesn't even apply in Sweden (where i live). Also the other "competitors" in the market isn't exactly made for cloud gaming, except for Shadow.

We'll see in 2 years ish, the mobile gaming market is similar. People say there's no market for it, yet it's the most profitable by far (gee i wonder why).

[Remilia]

I'm an analyst, I can't accept Ookla numbers since I know that the research methodology is wrong. Just like pretty much every single other western analytics - since China's internet is, unfortunately, centralized and behind the wall.

There are few reports that are done from the inside. I believe China cache CDN company is doing them, for example. Chinese internet center (.cn) is another one.
Also Chinese broadband alliance

http://en.people.cn/n3/2019/0222/c90000-9548800.html
https://cnnic.com.cn/IDR/ReportDownl...1069195909.pdf
http://www.chinabda.cn/article/252696

As of the end of March this year, the proportion of fiber-optic broadband users in the country reached 91%, and the proportion of 4G users reached 75%. Average speed exceeded 30 mbit/s

Since you're an analyst you should know that using the same methodology should be paramount to comparing then.
You should also know that Ookla has servers in China. You can manually select quite a few if you want. So your accusation for crossing firewall speed isn't true.

Either way, this is off topic at this point. 5G (where for some reason this initially started) is not a magic bullet for streaming. If you hate the US, that's fine, but at least know some information about 5G and hell even the deployment details before commenting on it.

[Cosmic Janitor]

They literally haven't rolled out 5g anywhere in China yet. The Chinese Gov't just issued permits on Thursday. You can have good 4g bandwidth but that's still not 5G.

Has anyone to date even fully implemented the full 4G standard?