Which was greater the Troll or Night elf Empires?

[Aleksej89]

Its like asking what was greater, the Roman Empire or the various African tribes.

Yea the african tribes exist even today but what is considered great and has left a massive influence is the Roman Empire.

Just existing isn't really enough to be considered great and (except the smarter zandalari) the troll kingdoms have done nothing impressive.

[huth]

WoW's maps are not TOO bad. It just has too many mountains imo.
Which only exist due to gameplay reasons.
If the world is ever redesigned in the newer style like WoD or Legion onwards it would look a lot better I think.
Since there is no longer any level specific zones there is no reason to wall off each zone with a mountain.

I think that is at least partially due to them having to actually build the areas. It becomes rather noticeable when something just doesn't make sense.

Well, I wouldn't call it an "empire" anymore. There is a still an existing Troll kingdom, and one that traces its legacy back to the primeval days of Azeroth, but it is not what it once was.

Which is more or less what you could say about the Night Elves as well.

[Aucald]

Empire means that you have other nations beneath you. It doesn't really have to extent to territories. Zandalari having authority over other troll tribes makes them empire. Just like Roman empire had an authority over it's provinces like Spain, Galia, England.

The "authority" Zandalar has over the other Troll tribes is exceedingly tenuous in the modern era - given that the major tribes have been autonomous for centuries now, I don't think the label of empire is really applicable anymore. The Zandalari are feared, respected, and envied as the Trolls closest to the Loa and closest to the ideal of Trolldom, as it were; but Rastakhan and now Talan'ji have little actual authority over non-Zandalari Trolls (as evidenced by the recalcitrant and outright hostile Speakers of the other tribes in Zanchul).

If you wanted a real-world comparison, the Zandalari are more like the UK is now - once a mighty empire, now a collection of nations working in concert with other political powers.

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Which is more or less what you could say about the Night Elves as well.

The age of the Night Elven empire ended with the War of the Ancients and the Sundering, some 10,000 years ago. The Night Elves are less a kingdom now than Zandalar itself is.

[jayinjersey]

This is a bad question...


The NE empire is just a mutated off-shoot of the Troll empire.

[Toho]

This is a bad question...


The NE empire is just a mutated off-shoot of the Troll empire.

And the United States is a unmutated off-shoot of ancient mesopotamia.

[Beloren]

The age of the Night Elven empire ended with the War of the Ancients and the Sundering, some 10,000 years ago. The Night Elves are less a kingdom now than Zandalar itself is.

but the night elves are now split into 2 main elven groups. Night elven groups which are a combination of kaldorei, shal'dorei, even illidari, and then the thalassian groups. The thalassians had a kingdom and were all one kingdom till recently.

The night ones are the ones that have been scattered and separate.. now all of them a separate, not even the Thalassians have a kingdom anymore. Everyone is fighting everyone else to fit into the human and orc conflict. Even when you know thos e shoudlnt' be dominated by them.

[Aucald]

but the night elves are now split into 2 main elven groups. Night elven groups which are a combination of kaldorei, shal'dorei, even illidari, and then the thalassian groups. The thalassians had a kingdom and were all one kingdom till recently.

The night ones are the ones that have been scattered and separate.. now all of them a separate, not even the Thalassians have a kingdom anymore. Everyone is fighting everyone else to fit into the human and orc conflict. Even when you know thos e shoudlnt' be dominated by them.

I wouldn't call the Quel'dorei, the Sin'dorei, or the Shal'dorei "Night Elves" anymore - they certainly don't claim the title, and the Night Elves don't claim them either. You might charitably call Suramar a "kingdom" to some degree, although it is more a city-state. Similar to Quel'Thalas, although given that is has both the capitol city as well several holdings throughout the world it is more a proper kingdom than any other. The Night Elves, by contrast, seem like they were a more itinerant people - living among the wilds of Hyjal, Darkshore, Felwood, and the Moonglade until the modern creation of their own city-state of Teldrassil.

[Soikona]

Without the Trolls, there would be no Elves. /shrug

Without the monkeys, there would be no humans. Doesn’t mean first is best!

[Toho]

Oh I understand.
But I think your premise and results from the Trolloc wars doesn't make much sense.
Here is a video that kind of goes over my biggest pet peeves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNpoI4Pf3Z8

It kind goes into responding to your points too.

[Spichora]

Which one, trolls or elves?

The answer is both

Of course Trolls, mon!

[Doffen]

None of them is even compareable to the current human empire!!

Did I do it right?

[Beloren]

I wouldn't call the Quel'dorei, the Sin'dorei, or the Shal'dorei "Night Elves" anymore - they certainly don't claim the title, and the Night Elves don't claim them either. You might charitably call Suramar a "kingdom" to some degree, although it is more a city-state. Similar to Quel'Thalas, although given that is has both the capitol city as well several holdings throughout the world it is more a proper kingdom than any other. The Night Elves, by contrast, seem like they were a more itinerant people - living among the wilds of Hyjal, Darkshore, Felwood, and the Moonglade until the modern creation of their own city-state of Teldrassil.

I didn't mean the high elves and blood elves are night elves now, I was talking about what they were. And the Thalassians start their own kingdom, not hte night elf empire true, but their own. And it is NOT a city state, it is a kingdom, it has several cities, towns and vast amounts of country. Suramar is a city state, cos it's just the city they control, not even the zone outside. And while the nightborne are no long the night elves, they are a type of night elf themselves, in the kaldorei empire vein. They don't need the Darnassians to claim them or disown them. Whatever the darnassians think is their issue. I'm sure the nightborne aren't uncertain or ashamed of who and what they are.

Elisande was claiming they were the only true night elves left, and yeh, she said elf, however she and all the nightborne have known no other way but the kaldorei way of the pre-sundering era. It's what they are. They embody a version of the kaldorei, while the darnassians embody another. Both are night elven. Shal'dorei life and culture is not a new kind, unlike the Thalassians who re-invented themselves.

I honestly don't get how people don't see they are playing kaldorei empire elves in the nightborne. THe only thing that has changed is their ears. But the new name is enough to fool y'all. This is why I took one look at them, and thought night elves. i would have preferred we got Lightforged or void elves. But alas. i've come to accept them. So I welcome them, we were all once the same elf anyway, even if that original elf is the most infuriating, insufferable, self-righteous elf out there.

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I don't think I'd even call Suramar a city-state. City states were capitals with extensive holdings around them. Suramar had no control outside their bubble; no mines, no logging operations, no vassals (curious how they stopped wear and tear on wood, steel and stone in a city by the sea, was every material frozen in time via the Eye? Entire city should just crumble now that it's gone).

Quel'thalas was and still is a Kingdom if much diminished. It has villages and towns outside Silvermoon and none of them were vassals; the people there were equals to other blood elves. It also was the closest to the principles of the ancient empire; it was ruled by a King and his court, had strong magocratic elements, depended on a well of power, was mostly focused on urban living.

Meanwhile the Night Elves had no formal lands largely because no one in Kalimdor was contesting them. They were decentralized, were ruled by a religious dictator (Tyrande being both High Priestess and ruler of the Sentinels even if by proxy; the police (Wardens) being an arm of the church). They lived with nature and had very few structures of their own beyond religious sites. They detested the arcane and while they did have wells of power they are never shown using them.

I think Quel'thalas at its height was likely the equal of Zul'dazar. So the successors of both empires are quite equivalent; the heirs maintained a measure of greatness until a catastrophic event diminished them too while the other parts of the empires fell to ruin. The difference lies in the other parts of the empire; the Night Elves for all their power in Kalimdor simply did not retain any of the greatness of their imperial era while Zul'Drak and Zul'Gurub were likely impressive kingdoms for a long time after the Sundering and only fell recently.

@Auculd - what he said.

Nyrmhod, they used the arcane to do everything they needed, food, clothes. They conjure weapons. In a bubble it was able to provide everything. Even when they ran out of food and materials, were all low. I think they kept hteir population low or static. What I wonder is if those children are frozen in time via time manipulation, or they simply were very careful how many they permitted.

Now the nightwell is gone, they have to get resources naturally. I wouldn't be surprised if the broken isle night elves are with the nightborne. They seemed quite friendly, and helped each other loads in 7.0

[Beloren]

Anyway. I hope the blood elves will builds new empire. That surpasses what the night elves had.

Would be nice to have night elves serving blood elves once more. They are the darker elves afterall and lowborne.

[Combatbutler]

Anyway. I hope the blood elves will builds new empire. That surpasses what the night elves had.

That ambition has died thousands of years ago, as long as they have their tiny corner in the world they are happy

Would be nice to have night elves serving blood elves once more. They are the darker elves afterall and lowborne.

What the hell

[Beloren]

What the hell

This was the case before, the night elves served the high elves when they were highborne.

[yes i know the high elves were only one group of highborne, and many highborne groups became different things. And yes, I know the highborne were night elves too. But the Sunstriders were portrayed as lighter skinned and russet/blond coloured tones of hair like the sun, and as highborne they'd have night elves serve them.

That ambition has died thousands of years ago, as long as they have their tiny corner in the world they are happy

That is interesting, it does seem to have fizzled out, they weren't prepared to press their advantage... I wondered if they were trying to hide from the kaldorei.

[Maljinwo]

Anyway. I hope the blood elves will builds new empire. That surpasses what the night elves had.

Blood Elves are too small of a population to build a proper Empire that spans more than Quel'thalas

[Hellspawn]

Anyway. I hope the blood elves will builds new empire. That surpasses what the night elves had.

Would be nice to have night elves serving blood elves once more. They are the darker elves afterall and lowborne.

There is not enough land on azeroth to build a bigger empire than the night elfs had.