Well done New Zealand!

[Jambalam]

Has slavery ever been a right in the modern world?

I don't understand the argument? If you put in gun regulation now then the exact same thing could be said about gun ownership in 100 years.

"Has gun ownership ever been a right in the modern world"

[Kumorii]

I rather see a country try and combat gun violence and fail doing so instead of going by a what a country who has big issues with gun violence says won't work without even trying to do anything. So good on you New Zeeland.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I don't understand the argument? If you put in gun regulation now then the exact same thing could be said about gun ownership in 100 years.

"Has gun ownership ever been a right in the modern world"

Answer the question. Has slavery ever been a right?

[Darththeo]

New Zealand has the luxury of being able to ban guns, they are isolated. They do not have a land border with any country. It is a lot harder to sneak things into a country the more isolated you are. The United States isn't isolated, we have two of the largest borders between two Countries in the world.

The US is the 4th largest country in terms of land area and the 3rd largest country in terms of population. Even Japan, as someone mentioned, is basically the size of California.

[Jambalam]

Answer the question. Has slavery ever been a right?

Slavery in itself, as in the act of being a Slaver, isn't a 'right' if that's what you are getting at? However, owning a human being has been a right in many countries across the world in the past.

My point is that just because you have the right to bear arms now doesn't make it the correct or right thing to do, and my hope is that in the future this is looked back on with the same regret as slavery.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Slavery in itself, as in the act of being a Slaver, isn't a 'right' if that's what you are getting at? However, owning a human being has been a right in many countries across the world in the past.

My point is that just because you have the right to bear arms now doesn't make it the correct or right thing to do, and my hope is that in the future this is looked back on with the same regret as slavery.

Okay, so being a slaver isn't a right. So thats a poor argument. Right now, in the U.S. at least, owning a gun is a right. Trying to take those is infringing.

With your argument in mind, you could literally argue for any right to be abolished with the attitude that "just because its the right thing to do .... this is the future, you will regret trying to have those rights!"

"Same sex marriage? Bah. Abortion? Bah.

[Monster Hunter]

i'd rather die knowing i hurt or killed at least one of my would-be oppressors than live under their thumb like a feckless dog.

Mate let's not be silly here, a modern military would make you into red mist via a drone befor you ever saw them coming.

In the Iraq war 179 UK soldiers died.
Only 29 were shot and 8 of them were from friendly fire.
15 died in ambushes from enemy action.
Compared to 20 that died in road traffic accidents.

10 to mortar attacks
6 committed suicide
3 from suicide bombs

Road side IED's were the only effective weapon the insurgents and Iraq military had against us, killing the most at a pitiful 47.

The idea that your piddly little AR in a way keeps the goverment in line is stupid in 2019. It may have been a fair argument in the 1800s but it's just laughable now.

[dubious_doomhammer]

New Zealand has the luxury of being able to ban guns, they are isolated. They do not have a land border with any country. It is a lot harder to sneak things into a country the more isolated you are. The United States isn't isolated, we have two of the largest borders between two Countries in the world.

The US is the 4th largest country in terms of land area and the 3rd largest country in terms of population. Even Japan, as someone mentioned, is basically the size of California.

On one border, you have the majority of people coming to your country trying to find a better life ... and on the other border you have Canada, I get it though, we're totally scary.

[Cosmic Janitor]

i would have figured they'd have already banned guns, like australia.

only mindless sheep would allow their government to take guns though. it is a naive and foolish action, and it'll come back to bite them one day.

Unless they also own multiple armored vehicles, preferably capable of flight, only mindless sheep would believe they actually stand a chance against their government in a hypothetical arms race. Also it's kind of ironic if we consider that the ones backing the downward spiral towards a fascist government are widely the ones owning weapons in the first place.

[Darththeo]

On one border, you have the majority of people coming to your country trying to find a better life ... and on the other border you have Canada, I get it though, we're totally scary.

I am not saying we have dangerous borders, I am saying that our borders make it impractical to really "ban" anything successfully.

[Coolthulhu]

It will help just like it helped in Australia, perfectly. Some Americans are just too stupid to understand that.

Yeah, I'll be waiting to see how well it ends up working, whilst eating pop corns out of the magazines of my assault rifles. Congratulations on wrongly assuming me to be an American, by the way, and if I may say so, you should insult people directly, if you decide to go that way. It's less embarrassing for everyone involved.

[Draco-Onis]

I am not saying we have dangerous borders, I am saying that our borders make it impractical to really "ban" anything successfully.

But it's the opposite thing happening we are the source of their illegal weapons not the other way around the vast majority of gun seized in Mexico for example are from the US.

[dubious_doomhammer]

I am not saying we have dangerous borders, I am saying that our borders make it impractical to really "ban" anything successfully.

I think most people agree (myself included), that banning all guns is not the solution. If you want a gun for protection or hunting, great ... get training, get licensed. You don't need extended magazines, bump stocks, or military style weapons to do that ... right?

[Sezh]

Great job NZ. Fewer guns in a country will always results in fewer deaths in a country. Until anyone can accurately prove to me otherwise, I side with the NZ government,

[Wilian]

Did they even try thoughts and prayers tho'? A bit drastic to just ban guns without trying out the alternative.

[Spectral]

Great job NZ. Fewer guns in a country will always results in fewer deaths in a country. Until anyone can accurately prove to me otherwise, I side with the NZ government,

Always?

Doesn't look like an impressive correlation.

If you don't trust it because it includes a bunch of high crime places, here's a more curated data set.

There is quite literally no correlation between the number of firearms and the homicide rate.

[Fahrenheit]

i would have figured they'd have already banned guns, like australia.

only mindless sheep would allow their government to take guns though. it is a naive and foolish action, and it'll come back to bite them one day.

/eyeroll

Back when the 2nd was written a militia could muster rifles, bayonets, horses, and a few pieces of artillery, maybe. Which consequently was the same the the government could muster, just in greater numbers. If the intent of the 2nd, to overthrow a tyrant government, were still a thing, the ability to bring to bear comparable firepower has long, long since passed. You and your 'freedom fighters' in the backwoods would talk a big game with your semi-auto AR platforms until you forget to turn off push notification on Candy Crush one day and are summarily turned into pink paste by the Predator drone you didn't even know was streaking towards your position.

[TwistedSkull]

Good on them!

[Ghostpanther]

They're not banning all guns ...

They're banning military-style semiautomatic weapons, all high-capacity ammunition magazines and all parts that allow weapons to be modified.

Honestly, how many bullets are really necessary to protect yourself? If you cant hit something in a few shots, you probably shouldn't own a gun anyways ;p

As many as I can legally have. Depends on how many are invading my home.

But before I get involved in a gun control debate ( which I will not in this thread ) , it is New Zealand, their country, their laws. They have no constitution which guarantees the citizens the right to keep and carry arms, so it is easy to pass such a law.

[Spectral]

/eyeroll

Back when the 2nd was written a militia could muster rifles, bayonets, horses, and a few pieces of artillery, maybe. Which consequently was the same the the government could muster, just in greater numbers. If the intent of the 2nd, to overthrow a tyrant government, were still a thing, the ability to bring to bear comparable firepower has long, long since passed. You and your 'freedom fighters' in the backwoods would talk a big game with your semi-auto AR platforms until you forget to turn off push notification on Candy Crush one day and are summarily turned into pink paste by the Predator drone you didn't even know was streaking towards your position.

Without commentary on what circumstances would potentially lead to an insurgency, I'll say that this is a woefully naive understanding of what domestic insurgency looks like in practice. I also find it pretty twisted how many people have fantasies of a totalitarian military that massacres domestic insurgents with missiles, but that's a whole other conversation.