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  1. #1

    Would regression be a bad thing for WoW?

    What I mean by regression is reverting some game play feature changes they have made in the past, in light of newer systems.

    Example:

    Topic: In Vanilla and BC we had beautiful long attunement quest lines, that spanned patches. This would generally be a reputation requirement and quest structure that spanned the world, instances and raids.

    Cons: During that phase of the games life cycle, it was harder to accommodate these things because it was very convoluted, leading many to having no clue of where to even begin them.

    Pros: With the level of communication we have now, the dungeon journal, and the matchmaking system... this would fill the time between patches and have none of the side effects (unless you re-rolled a character, but who can play wow anymore on just one character? Certainly, it is nothing to meet the requirements on multiple characters between patches). When the raid is launched, you spend that patch raiding and working on your next attunement for the upcoming raid. When that raid releases, then you can do away with the older attunement if you wish. But attunements were driven content.

    This would deliver a more RPG feel to the game, and provide reasons to log on other than raiding. If utilized properly, it would be much more content that some patches we get now, but would fit back nicely into the system.


    Topic: Why do we not have World Quests in every zone in Azeroth since this is the "faction war" expansion (even though it is most certainly fluff leading up to a VOID expansion?

    Cons: Blizzard doesn't like sending people to old zones because they are sort of outdated with the end game at the moment. Then again, they have no issue with incentivizing leveling of allied races through that very same outdated content.

    Pros: Would actually get people out in the world and populate it again. It also provides a great deal more story content that what is happening on Zuldazar and Kul'Tiras. This is after all a fight to save the world... are we to expect that all the other zones are just filled with NPC's milking the cows and producing next season's offspring? Certainly they would have interesting perspectives on the faction conflict. It also opens up potentially more balanced Warmode (world pvp) because it spreads the population out a bit. When everyone is tossed into a closet and told to fight it out, of course we will end up with warbands like we did.

    Topic: Instances. I would like to see the return of Burning Crusade instances being tied to their respected reputations. Back in BC, if you wanted to enter Hellfire Ramparts on heroic, you need to get to revered with that faction first. It wasn't just a race to WQs back then.

    Cons: It would slow down early expansion progression a bit, but that's not really an issue when they already hold the raids back a bit.

    Pros: You wouldn't have players sitting on the cusp of raid gear before they even enter the raid. BFA was extremely weird in that you did not have to even enter a heroic after hitting 120 if you had a group ready to go. We went straight into mythic instances, getting gear only slightly lower than the raid; a month before it even came out. It wouldn't slow down the player base dramatically. But it felt good running instances to gain more rep, as you only got to revered with normal. You had to clear heroic a few times to get exalted. Then you could go purchase that item, that would give you something to go raiding with.


    Topic: Why not bring back the old pvp ranking system? Yes, the titles were given to RBG players (you can buy High Warlord now with ease). But I found the grind back then to be more fun than the grind nowadays with the "prestige ranking" system. Random BGs were incentivized back then, and not just with gear.

    Cons: You would have to find new titles for the RBG system.

    Pros: Gives new life to the random PvP scene, because people will farm for those titles. Less constrictive then RBGs.

    Just a few thoughts. Can you think of any you would like to see? Note: It should be things that could benefit the game, but not utterly call to destroy everything new if it were brought back.

  2. #2
    wouldn't necessarily be bad for the game, but what developer wants to put "didn't use my own idea, instead used my predecessors stuff" on their CV.

  3. #3
    Attunement chains are dumb. They can make a quest chain leading up to the raid, that's cool, that's fine, just don't make it required.

  4. #4
    No it wouldn't. I'd like to see a heavier emphasis on the RPG aspects that made the game great to begin with. They're too fixated with stacking new fancy systems ontop of the very solid mechanics of the game that they don't even notice that it's turned into a game of Jenga.

    I think the GDC panel with Travis Day gave some really good insight into the mindset of these developers. They perceive certain things as problems that players don't care about whatsoever (for example badge systems) as long as they work because they don't think it's elegant enough in terms of their vision of how these systems should work.

  5. #5
    It would be a very good thing but the developers absolutely despise anything that was created by a previous team so it'll never happen.

  6. #6
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Checked out once I saw attunements. Blanket no response to your idea.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jikate-Stormrage View Post
    Topic: Why do we not have World Quests in every zone in Azeroth since this is the "faction war" expansion (even though it is most certainly fluff leading up to a VOID expansion?
    Because there's far to much world for that to actually work out in a practical way, and they always have to mind the crazy people trying to do everything.

    The rest were all removed because they caused more problems than they solved. Especially attunements and PvP ranking.

    This is the kind of stuff that only sounds good until you actually have to do it.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Modern WoW players don't want any RPG whatsoever in the game. They just want to raidlog and have every class be carbon copies of each other in their respective roles. Everything else be damned.

    Not that I blame them though, it's the mentality that Blizzard has been enforcing since WotLK. Oh well, at least they are bringing Classic back.
    "This world is a prison!"

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Modern WoW players don't want any RPG whatsoever in the game. They just want to raidlog and have every class be carbon copies of each other in their respective roles. Everything else be damned.

    Not that I blame them though, it's the mentality that Blizzard has been enforcing since WotLK. Oh well, at least they are bringing Classic back.
    Raidlogging has been a thing since vanilla....

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Checked out once I saw attunements. Blanket no response to your idea.
    Most likely better for the sake of this discussion anyways if that's your approach lol.

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Raidlogging has been a thing since vanilla....
    Only if there was someone else farming herbs/stones/oils/gold/etc. for you. Unless you wanted to never go beyond MC, that is.
    "This world is a prison!"

  12. #12
    Topic: In Vanilla and BC we had beautiful long attunement quest lines, that spanned patches. This would generally be a reputation requirement and quest structure that spanned the world, instances and raids.
    People bitched and whined when attunements were added for allied race. Something completely optional and mostly cosmetic.

    Topic: Why do we not have World Quests in every zone in Azeroth since this is the "faction war" expansion (even though it is most certainly fluff leading up to a VOID expansion?
    It would spread the playerbase too thin. You'd definitely never see anyone at that point. You'd be out in the world. Alone.


    Topic: Instances. I would like to see the return of Burning Crusade instances being tied to their respected reputations. Back in BC, if you wanted to enter Hellfire Ramparts on heroic, you need to get to revered with that faction first. It wasn't just a race to WQs back then.
    We kind of had this with Suramar in Legion. And kind of with 2 of the dungeons in BFA.

    Topic: Why not bring back the old pvp ranking system? Yes, the titles were given to RBG players (you can buy High Warlord now with ease). But I found the grind back then to be more fun than the grind nowadays with the "prestige ranking" system. Random BGs were incentivized back then, and not just with gear.
    Please, God. No. There were a lot of things wrong with this system. It didn't reward you for being good. It rewarded you for playing 24/7.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    People bitched and whined when attunements were added for allied race. Something completely optional and mostly cosmetic.



    It would spread the playerbase too thin. You'd definitely never see anyone at that point. You'd be out in the world. Alone.




    We kind of had this with Suramar in Legion. And kind of with 2 of the dungeons in BFA.



    Please, God. No. There were a lot of things wrong with this system. It didn't reward you for being good. It rewarded you for playing 24/7.
    I HAVE TO DO THIS ON MYTHIC?

    I HAVE TO DO THESE QUESTS TO UNLOCK THIS???

    People have short memories

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    People bitched and whined when attunements were added for allied race. Something completely optional and mostly cosmetic.
    There's a big difference here though. One progresses your character in terms of story and power, the other is locked behind a reputation wall, and is, as you said, cosmetic. Attunements can be an insanely good way to set up a raid, the atmosphere, the stakes etcetera. Blizzard has the power to create attunements that unlock stuff account wide too, so making raid and dungeon attunements for your first character to do, what's so bad about that?

  15. #15
    Attunements are just "soft" timegates, one of the more common complaints about modern WoW. Everything else you're asking for is just increasing the requirement to grind.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by spalernTJ View Post
    There's a big difference here though. One progresses your character in terms of story and power, the other is locked behind a reputation wall, and is, as you said, cosmetic. Attunements can be an insanely good way to set up a raid, the atmosphere, the stakes etcetera. Blizzard has the power to create attunements that unlock stuff account wide too, so making raid and dungeon attunements for your first character to do, what's so bad about that?
    attunements were locked behind repwalls too, pal.
    Heroic keys needed rep

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkthugal View Post
    Attunement chains are dumb. They can make a quest chain leading up to the raid, that's cool, that's fine, just don't make it required.
    attunement chains and high entry requirements for raid are why split raiding was never a problem until relatively recently. they should make it take weeks of grinding per toon, so people dont have 5 alts attuned.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    attunement chains and high entry requirements for raid are why split raiding was never a problem until relatively recently. they should make it take weeks of grinding per toon, so people dont have 5 alts attuned.
    remember balance of power?
    Yeah a lot of people had that on 12 toons. I got it on 6 during nighthold

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Modern WoW players don't want any RPG whatsoever in the game. They just want to raidlog and have every class be carbon copies of each other in their respective roles. Everything else be damned.

    Not that I blame them though, it's the mentality that Blizzard has been enforcing since WotLK. Oh well, at least they are bringing Classic back.
    And how long will it be before the whinging to high heaven on forums pushes blizzard to bring in all the “quality of life” changes since classic.
    I give classic a month at most, for people’s rose tinted memories of how amazing classic was to be replaced with the realisation that classic was good for its time, but now not so much. The calls for a change here and change there will turn it into a carbon copy of today’s game because the average player is lazy.

    Just look at the forums to see the crying over time gating flying mounts... and you think these people will be continually happy in classic where epic mounts took months to save up for, and flying was done only via flight master?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by spalernTJ View Post
    There's a big difference here though. One progresses your character in terms of story and power, the other is locked behind a reputation wall, and is, as you said, cosmetic. Attunements can be an insanely good way to set up a raid, the atmosphere, the stakes etcetera. Blizzard has the power to create attunements that unlock stuff account wide too, so making raid and dungeon attunements for your first character to do, what's so bad about that?
    First, we already have quests that set up a raid. They're just not required. Second, putting actual content behind a time gate would piss even MORE people off. New raid came out but the main tank didn't finish the attunement that needs 2 more weeks? Find a new tank or whole group doesn't raid. Sounds awful.

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