1. #1

    Is it time to change up the formula?

    Since the the release of TBC, WOW has essentially followed the same formula. That formula being, increase the level cap, a hard gear reset, run dungeons until a certain point, and then raid. Rinse and repeat. My question is, maybe it is time to change up the formula. Many would say "don't change what is not broken."
    However, it is clear that for a lot of people the same old formula over and over again is leading to some level of burn out.

    I'm no professional game developer but there has got to be other options out there that don't involve hitting level cap and running instance content over and over. I think putting a little bit of variety and choice in what people can do at max level can go a long way in keeping people's interest. If you think about it, our characters are all forced down a single path, and it is that of the hero that goes out and destroys the big bad guy, typically via a raid of some sort. What if there were other path's you could take your character? What if instead of increasing the level cap all of the time, Blizzard introduced other means of character progression? There are many examples out there of other MMOs that don't increase their level cap every expansion and introduce various ways of character progression into each expansion. I think at this time in WoW's life, change might be good...because the same expansion formula that we have gotten since TBC is starting to run its course.

  2. #2
    The formula got changed a lot (and not necessarily for the best) by mythic+,so it's not really possible to say it's still the same

  3. #3
    Dont ask for changes if you cant figure out single thing to replace current formula. It is easy to say change this or give us something new but when you ask what new thinhs would like to see specificly people suddenly loss their voice.

  4. #4
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Dont ask for changes if you cant figure out single thing to replace current formula. It is easy to say change this or give us something new but when you ask what new thinhs would like to see specificly people suddenly loss their voice.
    ^ This.

    They changed the formula quite significantly with MoP, then had a stumble with WoD and picked the MoP formula back up in Legion too boot.
    There are other games if you're simply tired of the MMORPG base formula, which is bound to always be around in some shape or other.
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  5. #5
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    I'm trying to come up with a good way to word this, but the short answer is "you can't." I'm running through assorted level-based MMOs in my head and they all follow some minor permutation of the EQ-style "hit cap, run repeatable group content, get gear."

    Closest thing to a change would be diving fully into the MOBA pool by removing levels entirely, and taking out the gear. Where the repeatable content is in and of itself the goal. And I don't think anyone thinks that would be a succesful business model.
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  6. #6
    That formula is pretty much what brings home the bacon in MMO genre, so I don't think so.
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  7. #7
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    I think they tried but couldn't hit the spot. At this point, I don't think the game is healthy enough to 'play' with it, so they will keep delivering more for the same.

    Garrisons for example, I believe was a nice proposal but the way it ended up coming out and the backlash it received was traumatic for the team, so much so they just gave up all together.

    At this point WoW is filled with all those experimentations of systems that could be but never will.


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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I'm trying to come up with a good way to word this, but the short answer is "you can't." I'm running through assorted level-based MMOs in my head and they all follow some minor permutation of the EQ-style "hit cap, run repeatable group content, get gear."

    Closest thing to a change would be diving fully into the MOBA pool by removing levels entirely, and taking out the gear. Where the repeatable content is in and of itself the goal. And I don't think anyone thinks that would be a succesful business model.
    I'm not suggesting to get rid of the system we have in place, but putting some choice into the game and making it just a but more dynamic can go a long way. In reality we have a single path towards character progression in WoW.
    I know it is Theme Park MMO and all, but maybe it is time to introduce some more sandbox elements here and there that could help with player engagement.

    The only two MMOs I can think of that have successfully pulled off releasing expansions without any sort of increased level cap is GW2 and ESO, but those come with it's own pros and cons.

  9. #9
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    They have changed it up over the years, just very mildly. I believe issues started arising when they made obtaining rewards/gear too easy/frequent. Think back in Vanilla when you'd kill a boss. Chances are you didn't receive a piece of loot for months of raiding. Over the following years, obtaining epics became easier and more common. Now we're at the point where it's expected to be fully epic'd out regardless of how you play the game. IMO, rewards don't feel very rewarding when you don't work hard/long for them. People feel relieved when they graduate college or when they finish w/ a masters/PhD because they worked hard and they finally got their reward for all that hard work. It's no different when it comes to WoW.

    The key to to WoW's longevity and future relies on how they can give players that sense of accomplishment without making it too easy. That's the hard part because there's a huge skill gap between top end raiders/PvPers and the casual pet battler, xmog farmer. WoW shot itself in the foot when they decided to focus on non PvE/PvP content at end game. There's no reason pet battles should be a focal point at max level. It's a neat feature, but that shit needs to remain in the shadows and not have its own dedicated week event. I just fear that the game has catered to too many different styles of players that it'd be hard to focus end game content on just PvE/PvP. I know people who play this game and they don't raid, M+ or PvP. They specifically farm xmog, do pet battles and various other solo content.

    So the idea is, how can you make rewards feel rewarding without alienating players who started in MoP? These players grew up with easy rewards and various aspects of the game outside of PvE/PvP. There's a fine line somewhere in there and it's up to blizzard to figure it out. Personally for me, if they go further from PvE/PvP end game focus, then I'll feel neglected pushed away since I've been playing since vanilla.
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  10. #10
    You dont really seem to be able to identify the issue / problem, let alone any solutions. What i will say is what others have, M+ has changed the game completely. There have been other incremental changes, but that is the change that really flips the script completely.

    Personally, i enjoyed the earlier systems more with a more linear character advancement path - but again, M+ would totally throw that out the window, as it would EASILY become the preferred gearing method, rather than farting around trying to form a full raid team for a 6 month old raid.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ckooken View Post
    Since the the release of TBC, WOW has essentially followed the same formula. That formula being, increase the level cap, a hard gear reset, run dungeons until a certain point, and then raid. Rinse and repeat. My question is, maybe it is time to change up the formula. Many would say "don't change what is not broken."
    However, it is clear that for a lot of people the same old formula over and over again is leading to some level of burn out.

    I'm no professional game developer but there has got to be other options out there that don't involve hitting level cap and running instance content over and over. I think putting a little bit of variety and choice in what people can do at max level can go a long way in keeping people's interest. If you think about it, our characters are all forced down a single path, and it is that of the hero that goes out and destroys the big bad guy, typically via a raid of some sort. What if there were other path's you could take your character? What if instead of increasing the level cap all of the time, Blizzard introduced other means of character progression? There are many examples out there of other MMOs that don't increase their level cap every expansion and introduce various ways of character progression into each expansion. I think at this time in WoW's life, change might be good...because the same expansion formula that we have gotten since TBC is starting to run its course.
    You hate leveling, yet you like progression.

    So .. whats the difference?

    Either way you become more powerful through repetition.

    Arguably, being max level only offers progression for further advancement.

    Would you like a game without levels, is that what your asking? (ie I want to be powerful, but I really don't have the time to work at it; I pay a sub therefore I deserve max everything, etc.)
    Last edited by Vineri; 2019-03-21 at 09:29 PM.

  12. #12
    We could probably change alot about the level system (it's terribly outdated and it gets worse the more levels we gain), but I think it's not the the important part of the game to focus on. Endgame starts on day two of two years. Stuff like m+ or world quests have far more impact on how we play the game and they should probably focus on changing up the formulas in those areas (world content, dungeons, raids, pvp). Except for if they find a way to make it matter for more than 2 days.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vineri View Post
    You hate leveling, yet you like progression.

    So .. whats the difference?

    Either way you become more powerful through repetition.

    Arguably, being max level only offers progression for further advancement.

    Would you like a game without levels, is that what your asking? (ie I want to be powerful, but I really don't have the time to work at it; I pay a sub therefore I deserve max everything, etc.)
    I dont hate leveling, though I hate what leveling has become in recent expansions. If we get nothing out of a raised level cap, then what is the point of it? No new talents or abilities since MoP.

    My main issue with the game is everything has become so linear, you are lead by the hand almost the entire way. You do A, and go on to B, and then to C. Ect.

    I enjoyed stuff like 5.4 due to it's more dynamic nature. It was also nice to see hidden quest type content with the Artifacts in Legion. Build up a framework that allows players to explore and experiment with and reward them for being creative. Not everything needs to be so narrowly focused.

    Maybe I am being a bit to vague with the point I am trying to get across, I appologize.

  14. #14
    I wish I had it saved and framed with a golden border when Blizzard said that more players quit wow due to too many changes than due to not enough changes.

  15. #15
    TBH, I'm not even sure what you are asking for and why? This one seems hardly a pressing matter really anyway and change would be pretty huge, so why?

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