Is the rise of raider.io the fall of ilvl?

[Twdft]

It's my main alt on the opposite faction. I want to be able to raid with it if I decide to And really, apart from the BoEs, the rest is pretty damn easy to get.

Easy to get... but time consuming. 3 darkshore 400s = more than 2 months. 395 ring from service medals = probably 2 months too.

[Zantera]

Raider.io isn't perfect by no means but it's a good tool for when you're pugging keys and in a world where ilvl doesn't have to say much (people have been buying raid boosts since even the first few xpacs) the raider.io gives you some indication of what the people are capable of. Even though you can buy key carries for score now as well, you can easily browse through someone's raider.io and with just some basic knowledge you can easily see if someone has 5 or 6 boosted keys on their profile.

I get the frustration when you are the person signing for a key and maybe cause you are on an alt they dismiss your lack-of-history (on that char) but on the flipside I've been the person making the group looking for 1 player to fill it and if someone with similar gear and similar class (what we need) but a higher score signs up, then that's probably the one I'm going with. But it's not that different from the old "inspect outside the bank" approach with gearscore and looking who had the best gear.

[ToxicFlame]

I get the frustration when you are the person signing for a key and maybe cause you are on an alt they dismiss your lack-of-history (on that char) but on the flipside I've been the person making the group looking for 1 player to fill it and if someone with similar gear and similar class (what we need) but a higher score signs up, then that's probably the one I'm going with. But it's not that different from the old "inspect outside the bank" approach with gearscore and looking who had the best gear.

I might have missed it, but I still don't understand why you can't link your alts to your main on raider.io so all your alts have the same score, I think it would solve a lot for people with a lot of alts whose mains have high raider.io score

[callipygoustp]

I might have missed it, but I still don't understand why you can't link your alts to your main on raider.io so all your alts have the same score, I think it would solve a lot for people with a lot of alts whose mains have high raider.io score

Yeah, it makes a world of difference once you link them. It did for me. My baby rogue and warlock started getting invites much more regularly once they were linked to my main.

[Kaver]

Players always find excuses for why they cant access high-end content. In the past it was ilvl. Now everybody has 410+ ilvl and players therefore think that they are entitled to join everything. The truth is that bad players will always be bad and ilvl cant change that. So if we cant filter based on ilvl (thanks blizz...) then we need other systems (thank you raider.io!) to filter people. You cant force us to play with people who cant perform even on a mediocre level.

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My only issue with raider score is that if you take a break you are fucked. Heck even if you try to join at a season or expansion reset people still asked for your score from Legion or Season 1. So you either need a good group of friends to help you grind score or to waste gold and/or money on boosts.

It's not a problem at all. If you take a break and come back with a low score, you can just use your own key for a couple of week to build up a decent score. It is very easy. It requires a little bit of effort, but of course it does. Life requires effort. You can go from 0 to 1500 in 2 weeks easily by using your own key.

[Zantera]

I might have missed it, but I still don't understand why you can't link your alts to your main on raider.io so all your alts have the same score, I think it would solve a lot for people with a lot of alts whose mains have high raider.io score

I'm a bit torn on this as it's both good and bad depending on the player. Just speaking for myself, I could get into most keys in the 11-15 range on my monk main (415 ilvl) and absolutely smash the damage as well as knowing where to use my CC and utility spells just out of experience and having played the char so much. I switch to my mage (407 ilvl) which isn't far behind my monk on a gear level, but it's just an alt so I don't know the ins and outs and while I have read up on the spec, I feel like I'm getting maybe 85% out of it.

So while it would help me to get in, I would still feel a bit bad that it's just my alt and I don't master it as well as my main and maybe I don't live up to the score. :P But then again plenty of people are better than me and they play like 3-4 different characters at a higher level.

[ToxicFlame]

I'm a bit torn on this as it's both good and bad depending on the player. Just speaking for myself, I could get into most keys in the 11-15 range on my monk main (415 ilvl) and absolutely smash the damage as well as knowing where to use my CC and utility spells just out of experience and having played the char so much. I switch to my mage (407 ilvl) which isn't far behind my monk on a gear level, but it's just an alt so I don't know the ins and outs and while I have read up on the spec, I feel like I'm getting maybe 85% out of it.

So while it would help me to get in, I would still feel a bit bad that it's just my alt and I don't master it as well as my main and maybe I don't live up to the score. :P But then again plenty of people are better than me and they play like 3-4 different characters at a higher level.

on the other hand i'd much rather have someone who knows the dungeon in and out, has cleared it in time multiple times on 10+ playing an alt than some asshat that refuses to put any effort into learning and researching his class and/or dungeon mechanics because "it's just a game".

[Dracullus]

Hopefully raider.io will lead to some kind of player reputation system in 9.0, same way as gearscore lead to item level.

[gushDH]

Removing ilvl won't make a difference to the importance of secondary stats. Sims will still be pretty much mandatory if you want to min-max your character's performance.

Now, about raiderio: People do care about your raiderio rating, but also need you to have descent ilvl, too. If two players have similar raiderio, but one has 5 more ilvl, that one will probably be picked.

[ToxicFlame]

Now, about raiderio: People do care about your raiderio rating, but also need you to have descent ilvl, too. If two players have similar raiderio, but one has 5 more ilvl, that one will probably be picked.

notice how the first condition is r.io score?

[Daffan]

Yes because Ilvl was so inflated by welfare that people can't trust it anymore.

[Soon-TM]

"Community" at large has always been looking for ways to exclude others from content. Rio is just the latest version.

[thebdc]

"Welfare epics" aren't the problem. The problem is that you can get equal gear for different types of activities. Getting your non-welfare epics from raiding doesn't mean you're good at M+ and vice versa.

[temple1906]

I hope not.

If the only way to get into a raid is having a high raider io score or being in a guild then I just won’t raid. Just like I don’t do Mythic+ right now (Although in part that’s because I don’t enjoy Mythic+).

Ilvl requirements at least give me a goal I can reach and strive for in-game rather than some arbitrary third party score that requires you to do a thing before you can actually do that same thing.

If anything I want to see raider.io shut down by Blizzard.

RIO score has nothing to do with raiding. You are not getting into raids because your item level is likely low and/or you don't have AotC. You can circumvent this somewhat by finding a lower tier guild willing to take a risk on you (there are many of these). If you don't want to join a guild then I guess you don't get to do organized group content.

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For M+ yeah. People shouldn't be using IO for raiding though since the skillset used in both are pretty different.

That said, I'd say a higher IO score is more impressive than high mythic prog. Any player can get carried to Cutting Edge while I'd say getting 2k io (especially higher) takes some work.

The problem is that WF/TF means any Joe Schmoe can be 420 iLvl so that's useless to look at. I mean hell I'm only 411 iLvl and yet I'm 6/9M and over 2k IO. There are plenty of people with easy worse mythic prog and IO that shit on my iLvl cuz they get tons of TF gear.

Any player can get carried to CE? LOL

[kamuimac]

the irony when top 1-2 % uses raider.io to exclude some of top 10% while calling each other shit players while its completly ignored by 90% of playerbase who never pug anything higher then mythic - or normal raids and has 0 interest in pugging mythic 10 or hc raids -_-

and have no idea what raider.io even is

and then people wonder why there are no communities or social ties in this game anymore

[temple1906]

"Community" at large has always been looking for ways to exclude others from content. Rio is just the latest version.

Yes, because it is so awful for decent players to only want to play with other decent players.

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the irony when top 1-2 % uses raider.io to exclude some of top 10% while calling each other shit players while its completly ignored by 90% of playerbase who never pug anything higher then mythic - or normal raids and has 0 interest in pugging mythic 10 or hc raids -_-

and have no idea what raider.io even is

and then people wonder why there are no communities or social ties in this game anymore

Probably because you have skewed perception of what a top player is.

[Soon-TM]

Yes, because it is so awful for decent players to only want to play with other decent players.

Thanks for confirming what I said

[Doomchicken]

If/When Raider Io dies, something else will just take its place. Whether by wrong or right, the mindset of todays playerbase will always find a way to exclude other players in an effort to make runs easier and quicker and there is no change one can make in game that will change that.

[Thetruth1400]

I strongly believe raider.io is a consequence of the amount of welfare gear people are getting showered in.
people have always found ways of filtering players for groups, be it inspecting them in front of dala bank, or gear score, or whatever but it's always been based on gear in the past

Couldn't have said it better myself.

When you hand out gear to everyone for doing next to nothing (and yes, Emissaries, Invasions, and Warfronts are next to nothing), the players still need a way to filter out the bad players from the good so they don't waste their time. Without gear being the metric of determining player's commitment to the game / skill, it's going to fall to something else, in this case raider.io.

[Garymorilix]

Plenty of gold so three Mythic BoEs. 405 helm from world boss, 405 chest from Azerite Residue (just from island missions), 3 400 items from Darkshore warfront, 395 ring from Service Medals. Rest is 385+ from emissary (a few are warforged) and one good titanforge roll (a 390 trinket from LFR). When the World Boss trinket drops I should be at 400.

I'd actually be in favor of an actual progression score by Blizzard. My only issue with raider score is that if you take a break you are fucked. Heck even if you try to join at a season or expansion reset people still asked for your score from Legion or Season 1. So you either need a good group of friends to help you grind score or to waste gold and/or money on boosts.

3 mythic BoE's - Not even one is a reality for the average non-raider.
405 helm + chest - 405 means it's fully upgraded, a fully upgraded ilvl 400 helm requires a level 42 Heart of Azeroth, which again is not a possibility right now for non-raider non-m+ non-nothing players.
3 400 ilvl items from a Warfront - takes like what, 2+ months? Very good indication of commitment.
395 ring from service medals - That's a lot of farming for one character. Farming content that's time gated randomly, someone who is casual can't be there at every incursion every day.
Emissary gear is a reasonable enough indicator.

All what you listed clearly does NOT represent someone who doesn't raid/m+/pvp/grind all day. You clearly have much more time than any casual player if you can manage these (especially the 3 BoE's + HoA level + service medals) PLUS maintain a main that raids regularly and makes so much gold that you can just buy 415+ mythic boe's off the auction house.

Don't try to claim that this is some kind of metric for any casual player or non-raider just because YOU can manage it and have the time for it. If you were like "yea I'm 399" one week into the dazar raid opening we'd be impressed. You just collected catch-up gear and bought your way to high ilvl's. Your alt character proves nothing.