The XP potion drama is a byproduct of Blizzard's inability to communicate properly

[TheVaryag]

It's easy to point fingers at players for abusing a system that they think may or may not be working as intended. It's absolutely insane that Blizzard didn't respond and hasn't responded. Days before the bans came in, people were bombarding Blizzard with tweets telling them of the bug, and if they were allowed to do it or not. They were met with complete silence as they watched streamers for hours, and hours use this exact same bug and Blizzard still chose to be silent on the matter. It seems as though the team is preferring inaction rather than action. I believe most of the bans could've been avoided if the team was more communicative.

It's the fact that Blizzard knew about this for days, and didn't do anything about It making people like Preach and others assuming It's Intended at that point. Adding ontop of that the fact that leveling has been BORING AS NAILS for 10+ years now. I'm doing the Final Fantasy 14 Trial period, free leveling until 35 and I've never had more fun leveling In an MMO so far In the 2-3 hours I've spent there becoming level 11 now.

It's Blizzard's own fault, you're right. They should've communicated this to us right away, told us "Hey this Is a bug, completely unintended please do not abuse this It might be a banablle offense" that's all they had to do.

But, since their playerbase Is very likely small, they didn't mind the free sub bumps that that would've Inspired, seeing other group members spamming dungeons, seeing that potion used and be like "How can I do that? Is leveling so easy? I should sub!" don't put that beyond Blizzard, they're a scummy company at this point having lost what they used to be, and even then they used to be scummy we just didn't see It as we were blinded fanboys that let them do anything to us, well not anymore.

I agree with you here, they should've done something about It right away and It just shows how nobody from their side communicates, while we are CLEARLY communicating since day one about this Issue. But CMs like Lore didn't even bother tweeting out at least the fact that they're aware and we shouldn't do It. Or the multitude of other CMs, at least the ones that didn't get sacked I mean...

[Nite92]

Or you know, you can just not use an obvious 100% exploit at all, and not get banned then.

Who are you even defending? Do you think 400%+ exp bonus is a 'may or may not be intended' even when the method with which you apply it clearly reeks of exploit? Don't be upset cuz you blindly followed some stupid ass streamers like Preach, who also just tries to shift the blame, and learn to not exploit the game.

This exploit didnt effect other Players/the Economy. You got your chars faster to max, that's it. And since Blizzard didnt responded for days it looked Like they didnt Care too much.
The couldron Bug e.g. had a huge Impact on the Economy and resulted in no bans.

[Tydan]

Blizzard are a complete mess. So glad I'm off this hamster wheel and genuinely feel sorry for those stuck on the cash loop.

Who knows one day it might get better but I very much doubt it. Quitting the game has actually made me feel happier as a human being as I don't get pissed off and fed up over crap like this ban wave.

[tristannarutofan]

" if you didnt want me to steal your stuff you shoulda put more than one lock on the door"

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Blizzard are a complete mess. So glad I'm off this hamster wheel and genuinely feel sorry for those stuck on the cash loop.

Who knows one day it might get better but I very much doubt it. Quitting the game has actually made me feel happier as a human being as I don't get pissed off and fed up over crap like this ban wave.

you know having a toxic relationship because you make the concious choice to play a game you dont enjoy has literally nothing to do with that game, or blizzard entertainment right?

as i keep saying "make sure to play with your friends outside of azeroth too!" "take everything in moderation" the devs dont want you playing their game if you arent having fun.

if you've continued to play after you stopped having fun, its your fault.

grow up!

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This exploit didnt effect other Players/the Economy. You got your chars faster to max, that's it. And since Blizzard didnt responded for days it looked Like they didnt Care too much.
The couldron Bug e.g. had a huge Impact on the Economy and resulted in no bans.

so you took something, didnt get in trouble so decided that it was ok.

and you blame blizzard for it?

[KaPe]

Disagree. Preach and the others, MULTIPLE times, reached out to blizz to say "hey this is broken, is this intended?" etc. It's blizzard's responsibility to fix broken items, or disable them.

I've seen them hotfix items out of the game for FAR LESS than this.

That said, it was clearly a blatant abuse but it's LEVELING who cares in 2019?! leveling has never meant less in WoW so who gives a hoot?!

PS - preach actually asked blizz to make an example of him and got 31 days banned. He owned up to it, so why the hate on the youtubers?

One of those "Multiple Others" (Josh?) also clearly stated this was an exploit on their very stream. I'm am 100% certain people were doing the exact same thing while chatting with their friends... Hell, I *know* they were doing this - while warning my own guildies about it, some of them were clearly "hmm, is this worth the risk?"

The reasoning never was "this is completely legal, don't worry about it", but "it is an exploit, but they don't really ban people for that". Turns out it was wrong this time. It is a problem with Blizzard being far too lenient far too often, but one should realize that there is always a risk involved with that kind of shady stuff.

And the "hate on youtubers" comes from them making this far more widely known that it would have been otherwise. People are honestly surprised that Preach damaged his relations with Blizzard by openly streaming an obvious exploit. Others are probably blaming them for their own ban. Others still are pointing fingers at entirely different bugs and claiming those people should also be banned. The last group *might* have a point, but it's a clear case of whataboutism, which doesn't make them innocent in any way.

[Jazzhands]

It was clearly a bug, but Blizz 100% should've been on top of it. They were made aware of it several times with people tweeting at their dev team for days asking "Is this intended or legal?" and being ignored.

Sure, some players obviously knew it was wrong but others just see a character in a dungeon gain 4-5 levels and asks "How'd you do that?"

I think the right thing to do would've been to disable the potions right away, but i don't think they've even been disabled by now?

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A simple "We disabled xp potion until we can solve the problem" would've been 100% better than just ignoring it as some innocent players get caught in the ban wave.

You can't just put your head in the sand as a game dev and pretend no one will notice. that's not how this works

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Disagree. Preach and the others, MULTIPLE times, reached out to blizz to say "hey this is broken, is this intended?" etc. It's blizzard's responsibility to fix broken items, or disable them.

I've seen them hotfix items out of the game for FAR LESS than this.

That said, it was clearly a blatant abuse but it's LEVELING who cares in 2019?! leveling has never meant less in WoW so who gives a hoot?!

PS - preach actually asked blizz to make an example of him and got 31 days banned. He owned up to it, so why the hate on the youtubers?

"Hey this is broken" implies they knew it wasn't intended, yet they still used it and worse, spread it around. Like I've been saying, if you clearly know it's an exploit, it's on you to not use it, simple as that. Blizzard isn't here to hold your hand to follow their ToS, it's up to you to do that, and if you're unsure something is an exploit, then just don't do it.

The one's with a bit of a grey area are a little different, but there's no grey here, there's no way streamers, people who play this game as a literal job, didn't know this was an exploit that would result in a ban, yet they still spread it around to all their followers and likely got a lot of people banned who otherwise wouldn't because they were doing it and making it seem like it was OK. This is pretty scummy to me, they know the position they're in and the consequences of their actions. They're community leaders, some with 10s of thousands of followers, they shouldn't advocate cheating, regardless of how much leveling "means" in the current game. Preach is likely just trying to save face, if he really cared he wouldn't have used it himself, and would have actively tried to discourage others from doing it. And quite frankly, even if he did keep saying "Hey don't do this", well, actions speak louder than words, so when he says don't do it but turns around and does it himself, not only is he a hypocrite but he sets a terrible example, and people like that shouldn't be in influential positions.

[justandulas]

Eh. It doesn't work like that. At all.

Yes it does? both with blizz, and every other MMO on the planet. MOST good devs wil actually hotfix the item out or intentionally break it rather than sit in silence for days and let more people become 'infected'

this is blizzard failure through and through.

[RobertMugabe]

For the potions to stack, you had to separate them from a regular stack and click each separately. This is a really specific thing to do, especially considering you've never had to do it to get potion buffs to stack in the past. If they're intended to stack, you should have been able to click a stack of 20 like you can with every other stackable potion.

It's such an obvious exploit that I simply can't help but laugh at people, especially those complaining. Plenty of people know they fucked up and are just taking their ban in silence, but all these people trying to justify themselves or put blame on Blizzard is just down right funny to me. Bugs happen especially in a game this old, if you aren't sure it's an exploit then simply don't do it, it's not Blizzard's job to make sure you follow the ToS, but it is their job to follow up when you break it.

Oh ok didn't know that.

[justandulas]

"Hey this is broken" implies they knew it wasn't intended, yet they still used it and worse, spread it around. Like I've been saying, if you clearly know it's an exploit, it's on you to not use it, simple as that. Blizzard isn't here to hold your hand to follow their ToS, it's up to you to do that, and if you're unsure something is an exploit, then just don't do it.

The one's with a bit of a grey area are a little different, but there's no grey here, there's no way streamers, people who play this game as a literal job, didn't know this was an exploit that would result in a ban, yet they still spread it around to all their followers and likely got a lot of people banned who otherwise wouldn't because they were doing it and making it seem like it was OK. This is pretty scummy to me, they know the position they're in and the consequences of their actions. They're community leaders, some with 10s of thousands of followers, they shouldn't advocate cheating, regardless of how much leveling "means" in the current game. Preach is likely just trying to save face, if he really cared he wouldn't have used it himself, and would have actively tried to discourage others from doing it. And quite frankly, even if he did keep saying "Hey don't do this", well, actions speak louder than words, so when he says don't do it but turns around and does it himself, not only is he a hypocrite but he sets a terrible example, and people like that shouldn't be in influential positions.

The big streamers though aren't really the innocent victims i was talking about, they knew better and stated as such.

It's the people who meet them in dungeons asking "Hey, wsup how are you getting 4-5 levels for my one?" and get the answer, and get banned. Sure, a lot of people knew they were doing was very wrong but there are others kinda just caught up in the incompetence of Blizzard, and their deafoning silence.

REAL devs try to hotfix the item OUT rather than ban people.

[Jazzhands]

Yes it does? both with blizz, and every other MMO on the planet. MOST good devs wil actually hotfix the item out or intentionally break it rather than sit in silence for days and let more people become 'infected'

this is blizzard failure through and through.

No. It isn't. You agree to follow Blizzard's ToS, in which it says you won't abuse exploits. Blizzard isn't here to make you follow the rules, just punish you when you don't. That's how things work. This was an obvious exploit, no grey area involved. There is no excuse.

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The big streamers though aren't really the innocent victims i was talking about, they knew better and stated as such.

It's the people who meet them in dungeons asking "Hey, wsup how are you getting 4-5 levels for my one?" and get the answer, and get banned. Sure, a lot of people knew they were doing was very wrong but there are others kinda just caught up in the incompetence of Blizzard, and their deafoning silence.

REAL devs try to hotfix the item OUT rather than ban people.

So you hear "Oh, I got a bunch of these potions. But, you have to do something weird to get them to stack. Separate them into stacks of one and use them individually" and you don't think "Oh... that's odd. Why can't I just do it normally?" and then maybe consider that it's unintentional, and therefore an exploit if you use it? This just seems like basic logic to me. Potions have never worked that way, stackable buffs have always been usable as a stack.

[Talby]

Does nobody remember the mop - wod exploit? I'm only halfway through the thread and nobody has brought up how you could go from 1-70 in like 5-10 min due to blizzard fucking up and not squishing exp from some of the mobs.

Everyone that did that shit got to keep their characters and didn't get any bans, is this one getting bans because the potions give stats or something? Like what gives?

[klogaroth]

Why are you being obtuse on purpose?

The potion buff required specific action from the player to take advantage of it (splitting the stack). The buff wouldn't stack otherwise. That's clearly unintended functionality.
Does your tools of the trade bug require a specific action, other than using the item normally? If it does, then it's uninded functionality and you should report the bug to Blizzard. If it doesn't, then it's not.

Use a tiny ounce of common sense maybe?
Whataboutisms like this are really not helping anyone.

This is what I'm talking about when I mean we need communication. Standing in front of an item that respawns every 10s when it shouldn't, and clicking it every 10s, is exploiting a bug. Yet there has been no word, and no action, and we don't know whether there will be or not. Nor do we know to what extent you had to use it if there will be bans.

The reason other incidents are important in this is that there are not consistent bans. There are bans for the worst offenders of certain exploits. Other minor exploits go unpunished. Minor offenders in situations where there are major exploits possible sometimes go unpunished.

At no point have I said that people shouldn't be banned. I have nothing personal in this, having not bought a single XP potion, ever.

What I do want to know from Blizzard, is when there are advantages on the table, which ones are safe.

[KaPe]

The big streamers though aren't really the innocent victims i was talking about, they knew better and stated as such.

It's the people who meet them in dungeons asking "Hey, wsup how are you getting 4-5 levels for my one?" and get the answer, and get banned. Sure, a lot of people knew they were doing was very wrong but there are others kinda just caught up in the incompetence of Blizzard, and their deafoning silence.

REAL devs try to hotfix the item OUT rather than ban people.

They are not going to announce every single exploit on Twitter/through Blue Post and so on. First of all, it's completely unfeasible to do so in a timely manner - they need to confirm it, replicate it, ask a higher up for opinion and so on. All while the exploit is going on. Second of all, it makes people assume that "everything is legal unless posted", which is obvious bullshit. Third, it makes the exploits even more well known, possible causing people to try them out just to see what the fuss is all about.

Also, you example makes no sense. In this case, the fault doesn't lie with Blizzard but your "random dungeon guy" - who most likely knew this was exploit but lied to some other guy. I refuse to believe that no one here realized that some awkward method of buff stacking was totally fine. They knew this was unintended, they simply counter on Blizzard being lenient.

Finally, "real devs" do both of those things. You think Blizzard is somehow unique in banning people and "real companies" don't do it? Really?

Does nobody remember the mop - wod exploit? I'm only halfway through the thread and nobody has brought up how you could go from 1-70 in like 5-10 min due to blizzard fucking up and not squishing exp from some of the mobs.

Everyone that did that shit got to keep their characters and didn't get any bans, is this one getting bans because the potions give stats or something? Like what gives?

You didn't need to jump through any kind of awkward hoops to get that bonus exp. Do you not see the difference between killing a mob and delibateraly splitting items in awkward way to make them behave differently?

[justandulas]

No. It isn't. You agree to follow Blizzard's ToS, in which it says you won't abuse exploits. Blizzard isn't here to make you follow the rules, just punish you when you don't. That's how things work. This was an obvious exploit, no grey area involved. There is no excuse.

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So you hear "Oh, I got a bunch of these potions. But, you have to do something weird to get them to stack. Separate them into stacks of one and use them individually" and you don't think "Oh... that's odd. Why can't I just do it normally?" and then maybe consider that it's unintentional, and therefore an exploit if you use it?

I don't, but some players do see a short cut and hear "Blizz doesn't care, go ahead" and before you know it... banhammer.

Look, believe it or not it's possible for BOTH sides to be wrong here. The abusers are wrong for knowingly abusing something, and spreading the word about it on streams... and blizz is wrong for being WOEFULLY incompetent in how they handled/mishandled the issue.

We have seen Blizz hotfix FAR LESS out of the game within hours of noticing it. We've seen them hotfix world first kills RIGHT BEFORE the pull.

There is no reason AT ALL blizz had to ignore it, put their head in sand, and let the problem spiral out of control like this.

They were aware of it for DAYS, it should've been hotfixed out within minutes. Period.

So while the abusers are wrong, Blizz is just at fault for ignoring them for days and then taking a grand stand about LEVELING. The least important thing left in WoW.

[Jotunhammer]

Its fairly straight.... If you _think_ it might be a bug, don't do it again until you gotten a nod or a shake from Blizzard, if you continue to do it even if it feels wrong, then blame yourself, not Blizzard. Use your brains, not your cheater alter ego's... Those who abused it deserve what they got.

[justandulas]

I have hard time understanding why simple concepts manage to elude so many here.
The Code of Conduct very clearly states: "Using third-party programs to automate any facet of the game, exploiting bugs, or engaging in any activity that grants an unfair advantage is considered cheating."

Nowhere does it say that there needs to be a special announcement, that Blizzard is bound by some timeframe for fixes or that a player is freed from this just because a known Youtuber is exploiting the bug.

The correct action would have been: 1) Report the bug to Blizzard 2) Not exploiting the bug

True but when you have hundreds of players legit ASKING them if its a bug or not and not hearing an answer for DAYS, it sends out the message that it's irrelevant and Blizz doesn't care.

Blizz is equally at fault here for this. Period.

Grossly incompetent management of the issue, turning an anthill into a mountain.

I don't feel bad for exploiters and never will, but it's just Blizzard should've done something long before they did. Something as easy as disabling the potions for a few days.

[Jazzhands]

I don't, but some players do see a short cut and hear "Blizz doesn't care, go ahead" and before you know it... banhammer.

Look, believe it or not it's possible for BOTH sides to be wrong here. The abusers are wrong for knowingly abusing something, and spreading the word about it on streams... and blizz is wrong for being WOEFULLY incompetent in how they handled/mishandled the issue.

We have seen Blizz hotfix FAR LESS out of the game within hours of noticing it. We've seen them hotfix world first kills RIGHT BEFORE the pull.

There is no reason AT ALL blizz had to ignore it, put their head in sand, and let the problem spiral out of control like this.

They were away of it for DAYS, it should've been hotfixed out within minutes. Period.

So while the abusers are wrong, Blizz is just at fault for ignoring them for days and then taking a grand stand about LEVELING. The least important thing left in WoW.

Blizzard has no obligation to fix things within a certain time frame. It's their game, their company, they do what they want. It's up to players not to use an exploit, as we've agree'd to do that in order to gain access to the game. There's no arguing that. You are in charge of your behavior and your actions 100%, you shouldn't need Blizzard to tell you right from wrong on things that are so obviously wrong. If you think Blizzard doesn't care, that's your own assumption, or an assumption someone else has made and stuck in your head. You know they will fix it, just because it takes a few days doesn't mean it's OK to use it.

Regardless of importance, an exploit is an exploit. You break the rules, you get punished. This is how things work.

[klogaroth]

1) Report it to Blizzard
2) Don't exploit the bug


I think you'll be OK. Nothing else needs to happen.

That's all very well, but what do you then do when you're trying to sell flasks that you did the herbing for in a market with flasks from the fast respawn? You do so at a disadvantage. People who do things that are possible and worry about whether they are allowed later have a potential advantage. It's a riskier strategy, but there's a chance it pays off. If there was faster communication about what was and was not allowed then people would be able to know whether they should be using an advantage or not.

[justandulas]

Blizzard has no obligation to fix things within a certain time frame. It's their game, their company, they do what they want. It's up to players not to use an exploit, as we've agree'd to do that in order to gain access to the game. There's no arguing that. You are in charge of your behavior and your actions 100%, you shouldn't need Blizzard to tell you right from wrong on things that are so obviously wrong. If you think Blizzard doesn't care, that's your own assumption, or an assumption someone else has made and stuck in your head. You know they will fix it, just because it takes a few days doesn't mean it's OK to use it.

Regardless of importance, an exploit is an exploit. You break the rules, you get punished. This is how things work.

I've never exploited in my life. I don't even use cheat codes in single player games. I get where you're coming from, and don't entirely disagree. I don't feel sorry for cheaters caught cheating. Oh well.

My only point is that i've been playing MMO's since they were just MUDs, and even on MUDs they would give out global messages when you log in that "X mechanic is broken, and until it can be fixed anyone caught using it will be punished".

Simple things like that. Blizz themselves have taken this stance and warned people not to abuse an exploit before, or patched it out immediately.

The worst thing they can do is silence, because it sends out no message at all when all they had to do was tweet back "We are aware of the exploit, and anyone using it will be banned". It isn't hard.

It isn't Blizzard's banhammer here that's the problem, it's their lack of communication that leaves oh so much to be desired. I legit have seen gaming companies with a dozen employee's handle these type of issues better, faster, and cleaner.

This was just a poor showing of management and communication by Blizzard any way you wanna cut it. At the very least, they should've disabled the item outright until fixed. At the worst, they should've said "We're aware of it and anyone abusing it will be punished and all xp rolled back". to stop more from jumping on. It's that simple.

It didn't have to ever get to this point, was my only point. Blizz themselves screwed the pooch on this one.

[klogaroth]

Ah so you think cheating gives unfair advantage, so you have to cheat as well?
Sure. I mean, you could always download a farmer bot and run that as well.

Or you could just play the game without cheating.

You're in control of this thing.

You still don't get it. We're not in control, because we don't get to decide what gets banned and what doesn't. This isn't direct democracy. It's Blizzard's game, and they can set bans as they like. So you can be principled at a potential disadvantage, or not care and risk the consequences. What I'm after is to know whats allowed as early as possible, so as to minimise the difference between the principled and those who take the risk in situations where the risk pays off.