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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    I see you have trouble reading. I think we need medicaid for all, so no I don't think people should go bankcrupt on things that's not their fault. What I am pointing out you can't turn "insurance" into socialized medicine. Hope that clears things up for you.
    I mean, considering what you posted here has little to do with the post I responded to you're damn right I'm a bit confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Medicare is socialized medicine which is why Democrats are shouting Medicaid for all.
    No, it's not. Medicare is not a health care provider, which is what would be required for it to be socialized medicine. It's a health care payer, it handles payments and that's it. It doesn't provide doctors, it doesn't do checkups, it doesn't provide prescriptions. The only agency in the government that I can think of off the top of my head that does that is the VA.

    Medicare for all is socialized health insurance, with everyone paying into the same pot and getting the same benefits.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    I see you have trouble reading. I think we need medicaid for all, so no I don't think people should go bankcrupt on things that's not their fault. What I am pointing out you can't turn "insurance" into socialized medicine. Hope that clears things up for you.

    Medicare is socialized medicine which is why Democrats are shouting Medicaid for all.
    Medicare is not socialized medicine. We still pay premium just like any insurance. We pay $149 per month for Part A and Part B which is taken directly out of my wife's Social Security. We pay $66 per month for Sharp Medicare Platinum Advantage which covers Part C and Part D. We could go with gold which has zero premium, but for $66 per month we received dental, eye and hearing coverage also, zero copay for her medicine, and lower hospital and long-term care rate.

    Low-income seniors are considered dual eligible. They are covered by both Medicare and Medicaid which are two different systems. How that work I don't know. From what I understand, this is very complicated. Because Medicaid is administered by State (with Federal funding) and Medicare is Federal. From Center of Medicare Advocacy:

    Advocates report that dual eligibles are frequently charged improper cost-sharing. To the extent that providers are merely confused about their responsibilities, it will be helpful to provide them with the recent CMS guidance. To the extent they are unwilling to serve dually eligible beneficiaries if there is small or no cost-sharing payment from their state, dually eligible beneficiaries will have greater difficulty getting access to needed health care. Advocates can work with their states to increase the state’s cost-sharing payment to the full Medicare rate. Perhaps it is time for Congress to revisit the question of whether limited cost-sharing payments adversely impact beneficiaries.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2019-03-27 at 06:02 PM.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    Because the only thing they could offer that would be better than the current ACA would be a single-payer or universal healthcare plan that covered everyone. Unfortunately we have a large portion of our population who screams incessantly about having their taxes used to pay for things they themselves would benefit from. Even worse they don't seem to grasp the fact that we already have a tax-payer funded healthcare plan, but those are the same people who hold signs that say Don't steal Medicare to support socialized medicine

    Im about tired of seeing this bullshit. Medicare is NOT socialized medicine. People who receive it are FORCED to pay into Medicare their entire working lives. You dont get Medicare of you didnt pay for it through forced contributions. MEDICAID is the socialized healthcare given to the lazy who dont work

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Putting insurance on per-existing conditions is like forcing auto insurance to cover damage on your car that was there before you bought insurance. We would be better off with medicare for all and use health insurance for extra protection, kind of like AFLAC


    When you force insurance to pay for something that already happened, it ceases to be insurance.

    Not exactly.

    You most likely know the damage is on the car, you most of the time do not know you have an illness or disease.

    They were denying things related to your DNA and family history as pre-existing. They were relating 1 disease to 100s of others and denying even though there was no logical links. amongst other things.


    Does not even matter if they add pre-existing since that will just be priced into the cost of the underwriting and since most people want it they are willing to pay for it what is the problem?

    Medicare never denied for pre-existing and some of those people had the conditions since birth

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Not exactly.

    You most likely know the damage is on the car, you most of the time do not know you have an illness or disease.

    They were denying things related to your DNA and family history as pre-existing. They were relating 1 disease to 100s of others and denying even though there was no logical links. amongst other things.


    Does not even matter if they add pre-existing since that will just be priced into the cost of the underwriting and since most people want it they are willing to pay for it what is the problem?

    Medicare never denied for pre-existing and some of those people had the conditions since birth
    Because cheap assed people wont pay for insurance until they have a condition knowing that they can get it with preexisting condition

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Im about tired of seeing this bullshit. Medicare is NOT socialized medicine. People who receive it are FORCED to pay into Medicare their entire working lives. You dont get Medicare of you didnt pay for it through forced contributions. MEDICAID is the socialized healthcare given to the lazy who dont work
    Medicaid is for anyone who is of lower income. So if a person happens to be poor or their place of work doesn't provide coverage, they're being lazy in your book.

    That's just messed up, no wonder Trump's supporters are called deplorable.
    Last edited by Hobb; 2019-03-27 at 06:25 PM.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Medicare is not socialized medicine. We still pay premium just like any insurance. We pay $149 per month for Part A and Part B which is taken directly out of my wife's Social Security. We pay $66 per month for Sharp Medicare Platinum Advantage which covers Part C and Part D. We could go with gold which has zero premium, but for $66 per month we received dental, eye and hearing coverage also, zero copay for her medicine, and lower hospital and long-term care rate.

    Low-income seniors are considered dual eligible. They are covered by both Medicare and Medicaid which are two different systems. How that work I don't know. From what I understand, this is very complicated. Because Medicaid is administered by State (with Federal funding) and Medicare is Federal. From Center of Medicare Advocacy:
    Under the same definitions people give ACA, it is very socialized medicine.

    Not sure what your premiums have to do with it but many people under ACA pay as well.


    Many people under Medicare have already spent way more than they contributed and their yearly premiums do not cover the cost. So other people pick up the tab. Significant others might not have worked at all, thus no social security.
    So low income seniors get help in paying their premiums especially under part D. Again "other peoples money"
    Medicare Savings Programs help pay for other Medicare parts.


    So again how is it not in the same so called "socialized" bucket?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Im about tired of seeing this bullshit. Medicare is NOT socialized medicine. People who receive it are FORCED to pay into Medicare their entire working lives. You dont get Medicare of you didnt pay for it through forced contributions. MEDICAID is the socialized healthcare given to the lazy who dont work
    Wrong.

    You can get Medicare if you never worked a day in your life. Spouses, widows...…

    You can also buy into the program for a lot less then you would be able to get in the private market, thanks to all those people who paid all those years.

    You can get Medicare if you have kidney failure, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis or a disability, as determined by the Social Security disability program. You also can qualify if you are a child or widowed spouse of someone who has paid Medicare taxes through a government job.


    etc etc etc.


    Now I don't believe its socialized, but if you follow the same logic they apply to ACA then it is.....and has been for 50 years.
    So if they want ACA gone they should have to give up their Medicare too.


    p.s Social Security is totally Socialism too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Because cheap assed people wont pay for insurance until they have a condition knowing that they can get it with preexisting condition
    Not true.
    You still have waiting periods and enrollment periods.



    Oh and your Medicaid thing.
    Mostly false. MOST PEOPLE on Medicaid are working people with low income. 2nd biggest bucket Kids. 3rd Disabled.
    You should go look at their enrollment data. Even easy for you to read

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Im about tired of seeing this bullshit. Medicare is NOT socialized medicine. People who receive it are FORCED to pay into Medicare their entire working lives. You dont get Medicare of you didnt pay for it through forced contributions. MEDICAID is the socialized healthcare given to the lazy who dont work
    You actually do. My grandmother has never worked a day in her life and she's on medicare, her husband was the sole breadwinner.

    You seem to not understand how this works.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    1. So...folks with pre-existing conditions should just die or go bankrupt? And should "conditions" like pregnancy, acne or other mundane "conditions" still disqualify folks as they have in the past?
    Being a woman was considered a pre-existing condition before the ACA. My insurance premiums before ACA came into existence were almost double my then boyfriend, now husband's. And that was with an employer plan.

    But hey, I guess I'll pull myself up by my bootstraps and go back to paying extra for no reason.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelleria View Post
    But hey, I guess I'll pull myself up by my bootstraps and go back to paying extra for no reason.
    Maybe you should have made better choices and chosen not to be a woman. Take some personal responsibility! (/s)

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Under the same definitions people give ACA, it is very socialized medicine.

    Not sure what your premiums have to do with it but many people under ACA pay as well.


    Many people under Medicare have already spent way more than they contributed and their yearly premiums do not cover the cost. So other people pick up the tab. Significant others might not have worked at all, thus no social security.
    So low income seniors get help in paying their premiums especially under part D. Again "other peoples money"
    Medicare Savings Programs help pay for other Medicare parts.


    So again how is it not in the same so called "socialized" bucket?
    Isn’t that the same as any insurance system? Some people put more into the system and never had to use it. Some use more than they put in.

    I’ll use myself as an example. I have been paying health insurance and into Medicare since I was 18. I was hospitalized once in 1990 after a dune buggy accident. At 56 my blood pressure is 110/70 and blood sugar of 90, so I don’t have to take any blood pressure, cholesterol or diabetic medicine. I am definitely putting in more into the system than I use.

    My wife was perfectly healthy until 2007 when a hitherto undiscovered genetic neurological condition became acute. Prior to that she had been paying insurance for at least 30 years. Still by the time she had her final operation in 2012, I am sure the insurance company had paid way more than what she had contribute into the system.

    That’s just how insurance works.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    So instead of coming up with a plan people like they continue to try to kill ACA through 'creative uses of power'.

    The individual mandate is gone, getting rid of the 'preexisting conditions' part is just turning up the profit margin in healthcare without helping anyone.

    One again shiting on the people who voted for them.
    If it weren't for people voting against their own interests, the GOP wouldn't have anyone. This latest move by the Deplorable Resident is just another example.
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  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Socialised Healthcare is pointless and massively wasteful without draconian authority over lifestyle. As such I'm not a fan.
    As a Canadian, I can hardly mention any "authority over my lifestyle" that the government ever had beyond being aggressively anti-cigarettes which is hardly a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.

    Not to mention the fact that the American healthcare system is, per capita, by far the most expensive in the Western world, so you're going to have to explain your arguments in greater details.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    As a Canadian, I can hardly mention any "authority over my lifestyle" that the government ever had beyond being aggressively anti-cigarettes which is hardly a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.

    Not to mention the fact that the American healthcare system is, per capita, by far the most expensive in the Western world, so you're going to have to explain your arguments in greater details.
    Was mostly a low grade bait comment; but essentially I don't personally see it as the states responaibility to keep you healthy, and as such I'd rather that was a private endeavour (and yeah American system is fubared but it's not the only one) and that the money was funnelled into education (primarily) and security. THe pointless/wasteful comment was related to things like smoking, but also diet, exercise etc. That taxpayers money is used to give motor scooters to obese 30- or 40- somethings is pointless and wasteful.

    But hey, I'd also rather the role of teacher was treated with the same respect and had the potential earning power as that of doctor so it's safe to say I live in a fantasy world
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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valeron View Post
    The idea that the Republicans think they can become the "party of healthcare" is absolutely laughable.
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  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    US has it after 65...
    I don't believe Medicare tells you what you can and cannot eat, though.
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    As a Canadian, I can hardly mention any "authority over my lifestyle" that the government ever had beyond being aggressively anti-cigarettes which is hardly a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.

    Not to mention the fact that the American healthcare system is, per capita, by far the most expensive in the Western world, so you're going to have to explain your arguments in greater details.
    The US system is messed up. For example, when my wife needed her operation, the surgeon is on a different network. The two options were for him to come to San Diego, or my wife go to Barnes in St. Louis. It took almost 2 years to get all the t crossed and i dotted. We ended up going to St. Louis.

    The same with her neurologist. Only one neurologist in San Diego specialized in her disease. Only problem is that he is with Scripps and we are with Sharp. So our primary care doctor had to jump through hoops to get approval from Sharp for my wife to see him. Now that she is on Sharp Advantage Medicare, he will have to do that all over again.

    The amount of red tape we have to get through to get anything done is beyond ridiculous.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilhen7 View Post
    Only 20,000? That's on the low end lol
    The point wasn't the price, but how much you can expect to get from church, friends, and family.

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  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    The US system is messed up. For example, when my wife needed her operation, the surgeon is on a different network. The two options were for him to come to San Diego, or my wife go to Barnes in St. Louis. It took almost 2 years to get all the t crossed and i dotted. We ended up going to St. Louis.

    The same with her neurologist. Only one neurologist in San Diego specialized in her disease. Only problem is that he is with Scripps and we are with Sharp. So our primary care doctor had to jump through hoops to get approval from Sharp for my wife to see him. Now that she is on Sharp Advantage Medicare, he will have to do that all over again.

    The amount of red tape we have to get through to get anything done is beyond ridiculous.
    Well Canada also has waiting problems, we're hardly a paradise and it doesn't help that healthcare is (mostly) within the purview of the provinces, who are chronically underfunded compared to the federal government leading to large variations in waiting time and (sometimes) treatment quality across the nation. But yeah, two years for a surgeon is very rare for us as I understand it, and the one time someone in my immediate family required specialized treatment they got it within fairly short order. Suffice it to say that, if I were in the US, my mother would probably still be paying my father's hospital bills to this day.

    But @AeneasBK the entire point of the system is that no one is left out, because if you start making exceptions this shit never ends. Who doesn't deserve care? The obese, OK (leaving aside exactly how you define an obese and why should the law discriminate against them), now who else? Those that are too old? Prematures? The crippled? The mentally deficient? Those with rare diseases? Those in a come for too long? The point is to help those that wouldn't get help otherwise. And in the US these people can end up getting government healthcare money anyway, we just cut the knot and give everyone what they need.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Valeron View Post
    I love how he admits that he didn't understand healthcare before when he said he could make a better plan than the ACA. See, Zenkai, that's the man you voted for.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    I see you have trouble reading. I think we need medicaid for all, so no I don't think people should go bankcrupt on things that's not their fault. What I am pointing out you can't turn "insurance" into socialized medicine. Hope that clears things up for you.

    Medicare is socialized medicine which is why Democrats are shouting Medicaid for all.
    Did you just say we need healthcare, but it can't be socialized medicine. I'm so glad I'm going to work so I can forget how "intelligent" what you just said was.

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