Thread: Warrior Healing

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Beatman View Post
    No, it's not. I tried to make it work in the past. It's just bad and not reliable.

    Also, most guides recommend certain talents for a reason. Second Wind is just too bad in most situations to be picked.
    Well, that's your opinion. For me it works great in a wide variety of content. Also worth noting that the Azerite Trait Resounding Protection has great synergy with Second Wind.

    It's weakest in PVP content, I agree, and there is room for improvement. To say it is garbage across the board though isn't accurate

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Beatman View Post
    Try some duels as arms against other specs and you might understand.
    I see you edited my comment to fit, but that's not the point. Mages have the same thing, a small bubble that's popped in 1 maybe 2 attacks, and an Ice block. Arms has the 2-3 abilities previously listed, and also has something, i think, almost no other class has, the ability to prevent healing.

  3. #23
    Not every class needs to be able to heal. Pruning is pretty unpopular, but pruning the insane amount of self healing that they gave every class over the years was a good thing.

  4. #24
    Only classes with a healspec should be able to heal themselves. Mages, warriors and rogues having selfhealing is rediculous

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Toisha View Post
    Also, what do we do about Druids, Shamans, and Paladins who have been healing classes since day 1?
    exactly i played elemental for 9 years, take away my self healing and how do i survive anything, i sure as hell don't have immunities or insane mobilty so im fucked.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    This is fine if you give all dps specs the mobility and evasiveness of mages & rogues, otherwise you just make some specs completely unplayable in pvp, if you like that, classic is coming with all it's useless specs, HEAL OR GTFO!
    All dps specs should have some way to play smart in the hands of a good player, when being attacked, be that mobility, evasiveness or whatever. No dps spec should be able to run behind a pillar and reset their health bar to full. Being able to outsmart your opponent by using your strengths at the right time is what should decide who wins, not picking the right spec/class.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by szandos View Post
    All dps specs should have some way to play smart in the hands of a good player, when being attacked, be that mobility, evasiveness or whatever. No dps spec should be able to run behind a pillar and reset their health bar to full. Being able to outsmart your opponent by using your strengths at the right time is what should decide who wins, not picking the right spec/class.
    yeah i don't think just running around in ghost wolf cuts it as elemental, with no blink, no immunity, and any stun just instantly being trinketed, no heals = dead.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Only classes with a healspec should be able to heal themselves. Mages, warriors and rogues having selfhealing is rediculous
    I don't mind that. I don't mind if they have a little self healing, because otherwise it'd have made the world quests / leveling very tedious.

    I definitely don't want to go back eating between each pack again. Ever.

  9. #29
    warrior arms needs a serious redesign like combat rogue got in legion(but well done xD), maybe adding some blood magic (weapon enchant/healing from enemy bleeds,etc) or become titanforged for a time healing for x amount or a valarjar blessing that allow the warrior to call fallen warriors to help him, buff him in some way idk. having to chose two charges or a stun is kinda retarded too when all melees have a baseline stun/stuns

  10. #30
    The OP explicitly mentions Warmode....so ganking PvP. This is important. In general out-door PvE Arms is "fine", healing wise. Sure, you cannot really solo 5man bosses as easily as some specs with better self-healing, but if you have the slightest clue how the spec works you should never run into a situation were you feel like the spec has too much downtime or you just don't have the tools to get some mobs down.

    Now, with Warmode it is obviously a different scenario entirely. I think PvP should never be balanced 1:1. Because if you try that you will just eliminate spec identity. According to https://www.arenamate.net/representation-charts arms represantation is absolutely average in 3vs3....which is OK. If Arms received a buff through a PvP talent it would also effect the ranked matches and require other nerfs to the spec.

    Personally, i think PvP talents are detrimental for the gameplay and balancing of specs. Everything should always be available, including a baseline CC breaker that only works against CCs applied by players. If you never play flagged you can chose to not have it in your bars - your choice. But having extra-buttons fly into my UI or be grayed out depending on where i go that modify my core gameplay is the opposite of good design, imho.

    I also think frost mages should have a talent that allows the water elemental to tank. But that is just me.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by szandos View Post
    Remove self healing for all dps classes.
    Fixed it for ya. If DPS classes are going to regularly too meters patch after patch they need to give that shit up.
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  12. #32
    The problem with Second wind is that it does nothing if you are in combat with another player and you just slowly get killed. Fury on the other hand may not have the healing ability that a pally or a druid might have but they still can survive longer than Arms. I've never tried myself but I imagine if an Arms warrior dueled a Fury warrior of equal skill and gear the Fury warrior would win because the Arms warrior wouldn't be able to keep up with Healing and that saddens me because Arms truly is a fun spec to play.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Blizardwolf7 View Post
    Most content I prefer to play Arms and for the longest time I refused to play Fury just out of loyalty to my favorite spec but now I feel like in order for me to quest with Warmode on I need to be in fury just because of the healing the spec can offer.

    Is there no love for the Arms spec?
    As a guy who played warrior from vanilla to mop then rerolled - i can tell you that warrior is the most reliant upon healer class in the game. Think about 2v2 for a second. Which class would you least want to find in your double dps comp? Most people would say warrior nearly instantly. They bring pretty much nothing - a 4 second stun, an 8 second fear and damage. Thats it. They don't even have good peeling.

    Warrior will always be a damage bot. I recommend going ret paladin. Its ridiculously fun right now and has 10x the sustain of warriors. I regularly 2 or 3v1 in warmode vs similarly geared opponents. If a warrior attacks me i can easily kill him without even using bubble.

    If you REALLY wanna stick to warrior then yeah, play fury. Warmode is all about burst and self sustain and fury has a decent amount of both.
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  14. #34
    Even if you take D stance though it only makes you die a bit slower and not even that much slower. I know I probably sound like a broken record but look at Fury specifically with their Azerite traits, PvP talents and baseline abilities. Battle Trance alone would heal a Fury warrior enough to keep them up while the Arms warrior would still just get drained even is they stay in D stance. I think in M+ D stance has great value and it might be worth taking there but against a player it wouldn't help you any unless you still had a healer with you.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Blizardwolf7 View Post
    The problem with Second wind is that it does nothing if you are in combat with another player and you just slowly get killed. Fury on the other hand may not have the healing ability that a pally or a druid might have but they still can survive longer than Arms. I've never tried myself but I imagine if an Arms warrior dueled a Fury warrior of equal skill and gear the Fury warrior would win because the Arms warrior wouldn't be able to keep up with Healing and that saddens me because Arms truly is a fun spec to play.
    The arms warrior would actually win because mortal strike limits Fury's healing, and die by the sword + disarm both prevent a fury warriors ability to heal. If bloodthirst doesn't land, it doesn't heal you.

  16. #36
    As a mage you can still absorb damage though which is still more beneficial than D stance, and its a talent. That would be like saying all mages now have to talent into barriers. Mages can also take the PvP talent Temporal Shield which is still more healing than Arms has.

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    Fury would still keep up with us in damage and all they would need to do is Storm Bolt, Rally->Enrage Regen and use Bloodthirst as Mortal Strike falls off. They could even begin kiting away for the debuff to fall off before storm bolting and they would still be able to pool enough health back to give them a decent advantage again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    As a guy who played warrior from vanilla to mop then rerolled - i can tell you that warrior is the most reliant upon healer class in the game. Think about 2v2 for a second. Which class would you least want to find in your double dps comp? Most people would say warrior nearly instantly. They bring pretty much nothing - a 4 second stun, an 8 second fear and damage. Thats it. They don't even have good peeling.

    Warrior will always be a damage bot. I recommend going ret paladin. Its ridiculously fun right now and has 10x the sustain of warriors. I regularly 2 or 3v1 in warmode vs similarly geared opponents. If a warrior attacks me i can easily kill him without even using bubble.

    If you REALLY wanna stick to warrior then yeah, play fury. Warmode is all about burst and self sustain and fury has a decent amount of both.
    I do enjoy Warrior and I have played many of the other classes but I'm mostly trying to point out the difference in healing between Arms and Fury. Yes I would like Arms to have a heal of their own to keep up with the other classes but look at a Druid for example, they have 2 DPS specs you can play and they are both able to heal to some degree but in a Warriors case you can only heal if you go Fury. If Warrior healing exists for one DPS spec, why shouldnt it exist for the other?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    And Arms has Die by the Sword, Rallying Cry, and can talent Defensive stance. While we're at it, Fury has Bloodthirst 5% Hp on a 4.5 Sec CD, Rallying cry, and Enraged Regeneration, can talent Warpaint. So I fail to see why you need more?
    DBTS is a 3 minute damage reduction cd, no healing only slowing down your death. Rally grants us extra max health but fades so you cant really say its a heal. D stance like you said is a talent you would be forced into and even then it still doesnt heal you only reduce damage and not by much. If we are up against a class that can heal there is nearly nothing we could do to win without a healer. My worst experience on my warrior was fighting a feral druid who just put his bleeds on me rooted me and ran away to stealth and do it over again. I understand if that happened to a mage you would likely be in a similar boat but you could at least temporal the first one, try to use your bubble to mitigate some of it and even from there you have ice block, all which give you more of a chance than Arms specifically can say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snackfeat View Post
    Not every class needs to be able to heal. Pruning is pretty unpopular, but pruning the insane amount of self healing that they gave every class over the years was a good thing.
    If they started to prun healing off of DPS classes in general that would be one thing but Warriors have already been given some means of healing, they're just called Fury Warriors. I'm just saying they should share the love and give healing to the class not just one spec of that class.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Blizardwolf7 View Post
    If Warrior healing exists for one DPS spec, why shouldnt it exist for the other?
    Really it shouldn't exist for any, for a few reasons.

    1. Class and spec diversity. This speaks for itself really. The reason casters are so boring to me is that all of them play exactly the same. They all have a filler spell that they mash (incinerate, shadowbolt, frostbolt, fireball, arcane blast, wrath, lightning bolt, mindflay) they all have a big spell that they use on cd (chaos bolt, unstable affliction, glacial spike, lavaburst, mind blast, etc) and then they all have an instant cast (conflagerate, shadowbolt procs, ice lance, fireblast, arcane barrage, starsurge procs, lavaburst procs, etc) and then they all have a proc for their big cast making it instant or more powerful.

    Compare this with DPS classes, where some have energy and dots, some just have energy, some have combo points and energy, some have just combo points, some have a rage bar, some have a rage bar that is filled by using spells not auto attacks, they have cleave built into a lot of their spells, they have the ability to do instant burst aoe and cleave and ST and steady dps for all of those too.

    Melee are just way more diverse than ranged.

    If you start making all the melee the same, they'll end up as boring as ranged characters.

    2. This game is meant to be played with other people. You should have to rely on a healer if being 2v1'd. If being 1v1'd, you should lose to classes that counter you. You easily stomp through a shadowpriest or warlock for instance because they also rely on a healer but have less upfront damage.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Blizardwolf7 View Post
    As a mage you can still absorb damage though which is still more beneficial than D stance, and its a talent. That would be like saying all mages now have to talent into barriers. Mages can also take the PvP talent Temporal Shield which is still more healing than Arms has.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Fury would still keep up with us in damage and all they would need to do is Storm Bolt, Rally->Enrage Regen and use Bloodthirst as Mortal Strike falls off. They could even begin kiting away for the debuff to fall off before storm bolting and they would still be able to pool enough health back to give them a decent advantage again.

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    I do enjoy Warrior and I have played many of the other classes but I'm mostly trying to point out the difference in healing between Arms and Fury. Yes I would like Arms to have a heal of their own to keep up with the other classes but look at a Druid for example, they have 2 DPS specs you can play and they are both able to heal to some degree but in a Warriors case you can only heal if you go Fury. If Warrior healing exists for one DPS spec, why shouldnt it exist for the other?

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    DBTS is a 3 minute damage reduction cd, no healing only slowing down your death. Rally grants us extra max health but fades so you cant really say its a heal. D stance like you said is a talent you would be forced into and even then it still doesnt heal you only reduce damage and not by much. If we are up against a class that can heal there is nearly nothing we could do to win without a healer. My worst experience on my warrior was fighting a feral druid who just put his bleeds on me rooted me and ran away to stealth and do it over again. I understand if that happened to a mage you would likely be in a similar boat but you could at least temporal the first one, try to use your bubble to mitigate some of it and even from there you have ice block, all which give you more of a chance than Arms specifically can say.

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    If they started to prun healing off of DPS classes in general that would be one thing but Warriors have already been given some means of healing, they're just called Fury Warriors. I'm just saying they should share the love and give healing to the class not just one spec of that class.
    Ok, well here is the thing it comes down to every class /spec has their strengths and weaknesses, which for some reason Blizzard likes to change every other Patch. I've got 2 examples for ya, both of them being mages. I myself am a Fire mage, Love the play style, the spell animation, and the rotation. My friend is also a mage, though he's an Arcane mage for the same reasons. So what do we play this expac... Frost. As it's damage is the only thing that is currently Viable for the content that we play. Would we both like to get up in Arms at Blizzard HQ and demand that fix the problems with our preferred specs, of course we would, will it do anything? No.Yes we make our opinions known in forum posts on the Blizzard forums, as that's the only thing we can do. Then we both go with the Spec that is viable. Yes it sucks, but you do what you have to do to succeed in the game with the current tools available to us. I mean hell Mages once had Self heals, then we became the only class that had none, which made for attempted solo'ing of (recent) old content all but impossible, while classes that could heal, doable.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    Really it shouldn't exist for any, for a few reasons.

    1. Class and spec diversity. This speaks for itself really. The reason casters are so boring to me is that all of them play exactly the same. They all have a filler spell that they mash (incinerate, shadowbolt, frostbolt, fireball, arcane blast, wrath, lightning bolt, mindflay) they all have a big spell that they use on cd (chaos bolt, unstable affliction, glacial spike, lavaburst, mind blast, etc) and then they all have an instant cast (conflagerate, shadowbolt procs, ice lance, fireblast, arcane barrage, starsurge procs, lavaburst procs, etc) and then they all have a proc for their big cast making it instant or more powerful.

    Compare this with DPS classes, where some have energy and dots, some just have energy, some have combo points and energy, some have just combo points, some have a rage bar, some have a rage bar that is filled by using spells not auto attacks, they have cleave built into a lot of their spells, they have the ability to do instant burst aoe and cleave and ST and steady dps for all of those too.

    Melee are just way more diverse than ranged.

    If you start making all the melee the same, they'll end up as boring as ranged characters.

    2. This game is meant to be played with other people. You should have to rely on a healer if being 2v1'd. If being 1v1'd, you should lose to classes that counter you. You easily stomp through a shadowpriest or warlock for instance because they also rely on a healer but have less upfront damage.
    We'll that would be fine if that was how Blizzard balanced everyone but they haven't. Someone else mentioned that all DPS specs should just have healing removed for the solution and i replied that it could be a solution but it would likely upset more people than just giving Arms something to help them. Even if its not a baseline ability or if its just a talent its something. In the current state you would have to out gear or out skill the majority of players as an Arms warrior in a 1v1. I get that the game probably never going to make all classes/ specs 100% balanced but what harm is there really from catching one spec up to another spec of that same class?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    Ok, well here is the thing it comes down to every class /spec has their strengths and weaknesses, which for some reason Blizzard likes to change every other Patch. I've got 2 examples for ya, both of them being mages. I myself am a Fire mage, Love the play style, the spell animation, and the rotation. My friend is also a mage, though he's an Arcane mage for the same reasons. So what do we play this expac... Frost. As it's damage is the only thing that is currently Viable for the content that we play. Would we both like to get up in Arms at Blizzard HQ and demand that fix the problems with our preferred specs, of course we would, will it do anything? No.Yes we make our opinions known in forum posts on the Blizzard forums, as that's the only thing we can do. Then we both go with the Spec that is viable. Yes it sucks, but you do what you have to do to succeed in the game with the current tools available to us. I mean hell Mages once had Self heals, then we became the only class that had none, which made for attempted solo'ing of (recent) old content all but impossible, while classes that could heal, doable.
    I think that's a great point about frost especially since my mage is also fire but thats number tuning and typically towards the middle and end of an expansion fire gets launched ahead of the other two specs because we have higher crit and mastery valuese that make us less of a luck spec than early on in an expansion when were still getting gear. Think about it like this what if frost was the only spec given temporal shield, ice block or barriers, that would be pretty unfair right? So when Fury has baseline survivability that Arms does not and they are also given talents and pvp talents that push that healing even more it becomes pretty unfair. When we lost enraged regeneration i was upset but it made a little sense to me since Fury is sort of the angry warrior spec but Arms warriors also pool rage so its not like it doesn't still fit warrior lore. I apologize that a lot of my points are repetitive and have probably been stated in other replies but Fury also have like 3-4 more pvp talents than Arms does and my eye goes right to Battle Trance "You go into a trance causing you to regenerate 3% of your health and generate 5 Rage every 3 sec for 18 sec after using Raging Blow twice in a row on a target.Using Raging Blow on a new target will cancel this effect". I am not asking for this pvp talent to be mirrored over to Arms but why can't we have something similar so we can be on par with the rest of our class?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Blizardwolf7 View Post
    I think that's a great point about frost especially since my mage is also fire but thats number tuning and typically towards the middle and end of an expansion fire gets launched ahead of the other two specs because we have higher crit and mastery valuese that make us less of a luck spec than early on in an expansion when were still getting gear. Think about it like this what if frost was the only spec given temporal shield, ice block or barriers, that would be pretty unfair right? So when Fury has baseline survivability that Arms does not and they are also given talents and pvp talents that push that healing even more it becomes pretty unfair. When we lost enraged regeneration i was upset but it made a little sense to me since Fury is sort of the angry warrior spec but Arms warriors also pool rage so its not like it doesn't still fit warrior lore. I apologize that a lot of my points are repetitive and have probably been stated in other replies but Fury also have like 3-4 more pvp talents than Arms does and my eye goes right to Battle Trance "You go into a trance causing you to regenerate 3% of your health and generate 5 Rage every 3 sec for 18 sec after using Raging Blow twice in a row on a target.Using Raging Blow on a new target will cancel this effect". I am not asking for this pvp talent to be mirrored over to Arms but why can't we have something similar so we can be on par with the rest of our class?
    Because you know Blizzards love of *Cough* "Balance" *Cough* what baseline defensive are you willing to lose to gain something like that, as you know that's what they would take from you. Seeing as it's a good talent there, I'm betting you'd Lose Die by the Sword for it since Rallying Cry effects the entire group, and not just the singular.

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