Thread: Warrior Healing

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    Because you know Blizzards love of *Cough* "Balance" *Cough* what baseline defensive are you willing to lose to gain something like that, as you know that's what they would take from you. Seeing as it's a good talent there, I'm betting you'd Lose Die by the Sword for it since Rallying Cry effects the entire group, and not just the singular.
    Why do we need to lose anything in order to get a PvP talent? Fury has warpaint which is basically D stance without reduction to the damage they do and they still have healing abilities.

    Fury PvE healing talents:

    Fresh Meat:Bloodthirst has a 15% increased chance to trigger Enrage and heals for 20% more.

    Impending Victory:
    Instantly attack the target, causing (39.312% of Attack power) damage and healing you for 20% of your maximum health.
    Killing an enemy that yields experience or honor resets the cooldown of Impending Victory.

    War Paint: You take 10% reduced damage while Enrage is active.

    Furious Chrage:
    Charge also increases the healing from your next Bloodthirst by 250%.

    Arms PvE healing talents:

    Impending Victory: Impending Victory:
    Instantly attack the target, causing (39.312% of Attack power) damage and healing you for 20% of your maximum health.
    Killing an enemy that yields experience or honor resets the cooldown of Impending Victory.

    Second Wind:
    Restores 6% health every 1 sec when you have not taken damage for 5 sec.

    D Stance:
    A defensive combat state that reduces all damage you take by 20%, and all damage you deal by 10%. Lasts until cancelled.

    Fury PvP healing talents:

    Master and Commander: Cooldown of Rallying Cry reduced by 2 min, and grants 15% additional health.

    Slaughterhouse: When you use Bloodthirst, the damage is increased by 10% and the cooldown is reduced by 1 sec for every 20% health the target is missing.

    Battle Trance:
    You go into a trance causing you to regenerate 3% of your health and generate 5 Rage every 3 sec for 18 sec after using Raging Blow twice in a row on a target.
    Using Raging Blow on a new target will cancel this effect.

    Arms PvP healing talents:

    Master and Commander: Cooldown of Rallying Cry reduced by 2 min, and grants 15% additional health.

    Arms can use DBTS once every 3 minutes for 8 seconds of damage reduction, Fury may not have DBTS but they have Enraged Regeneration which also last 8 seconds but on a 2 minute CD.

    You're telling me that this is fair?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Blizardwolf7 View Post
    Why do we need to lose anything in order to get a PvP talent? Fury has warpaint which is basically D stance without reduction to the damage they do and they still have healing abilities.
    Warpaint is there to offset the , I think it's, +30% damage taken when enraged. which is why they also have healing instead of mitigation. Also in PvE at least, no one would take Fresh Meat over Endless rage. No one would take Impending Victory over Double Time. But these are the differences between PvE and PvP. Lastly Furious charge is on the same row as War Paint, and for Fury Warpaint is the go to. As to is this Fair, As Blizzard Devs, to them it is. Do you think it's Fair that both Arcane and Frost do better AoE than Fire, while maintaining Viable ST (well frost can) DPS?
    Last edited by Shadowsgrace; 2019-04-06 at 10:28 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    Warpaint is there to offset the , I think it's, +30% damage taken when enraged. which is why they also have healing instead of mitigation. Also in PvE at least, no one would take Fresh Meat over Endless rage. No one would take Impending Victory over Double Time. But these are the differences between PvE and PvP. Lastly Furious charge is on the same row as War Paint, and for Fury Warpaint is the go to. As to is this Fair, As Blizzard Devs, to them it is. Do you think it's Fair that both Arcane and Frost do better AoE than Fire, while maintaining Viable ST (well frost can) DPS?
    I dont think its fair that the damage is not balanced 100% of the time but at least they do tune numbers to try to make it, I see little if any effort to balance survivabilities.

    Also its like I said earlier, the damage that a spec can do can also change as we progress through the expansion. The odds that Arcane and Frost will always out perform fire in both AoE and single target the entire expansion is pretty unlikely and if it does go that way the Devs would likely see that as a problem and aim to fix it so why shouldnt the same be done here?

    Even if fresh meat and furious charge do not offer maximum potential they are at least still options that they offer the player should the player feel the need to take them.

    "Warpaint is there to offset the , I think it's, +30% damage taken when enraged. which is why they also have healing instead of mitigation."

    Why wouldn't the solution be as simple as taking some of Arms mitigation and giving it to Fury and then taking some of Fury's healing and giving it to Arms? That hardly alters the play style of either class to the degree that the specs wouldnt still be unique but offers a solution for both. Even if Fury takes more damage when they are enraged the healing they have does more than just balance out the extra damage they take, it can exceed it. It's not direct damage reduction but its still mitigation in the form that they are have to take on more damage to be killed, even more than the extra damage it would take to kill an Arms warrior though D stance or DBTS.

    I may have less experience with Fury than i do with Arms but as I've played it (at least from the PvE perspective) I have been able to fight elites that take a while to kill but can still walk out of the fight with full health thanks to my healing whereas with Arms I would either die if I didnt pull smaller adds to trigger a VR or get extremely close to death by the time i did manage to kill it. Even if I popped DBTS or stayed in D Stance that would only slow my death, not prevent it.

    In PvE we also typically have healers so neither Arms nor Fury (or any dps spec really) would have a drastic need for healing but in content where we dont have healers, whether that be world content or PvP, both specs would be quite vulnerable being unable to heal however, Fury is able to and Arms cannot.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Blizardwolf7 View Post
    Why wouldn't the solution be as simple as taking some of Arms mitigation and giving it to Fury and then taking some of Fury's healing and giving it to Arms? That hardly alters the play style of either class to the degree that the specs wouldnt still be unique but offers a solution for both. Even if Fury takes more damage when they are enraged the healing they have does more than just balance out the extra damage they take, it can exceed it. It's not direct damage reduction but its still mitigation in the form that they are have to take on more damage to be killed, even more than the extra damage it would take to kill an Arms warrior though D stance or DBTS.
    Ok, this is my last comment on the subject. It's because of class fantasy. The fury warrior is supposed to be this frothing, raging Berserker. (Blizzards own words as best I can recall them) Hence why they can only wield 2h weapons (RIP Single Minded Fury) as such, they would not be weighted down with "Armor" to prevent damage like a Man-at-arms would,(Arms Warrior) which is typically well-versed in the use of arms and served fully armored. The Berserker, from Vikings lore, would often run strait into battle wearing nothing but boots, pants, and a weapon or two, so they could move fast and free and without care, (what blizzard doesn't mention is the prevalent drug use by said berserkers, but you get why they could ignore the pain.) These are what Fury and Arms were based off when they redesigned the class fantasy, a Berserkers and a Man-at-arms. Fury takes additional damage when berserked to offset the addition damage of wielding two 2h Weapons. Why give them this penalty only to mitigate it with baseline mitigation. To further answer your questions I would recommend using blizzards new Wow forums, and hit up the Warrior forums. Hey you never know you may get a group large enough that think like you do about the matter and maybe start dialog with Blizzard for another class fantasy redesign. Good Luck and Happy Hunting.

  5. #45
    Immortal Syegfryed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Warsong Gulch
    Posts
    7,499
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Only classes with a healspec should be able to heal themselves. Mages, warriors and rogues having selfhealing is rediculous
    then only classes with no self heal should be able to deal tons of damage

    its totally retarded how wow works in this aspect, self heal classes deal the same or even more damage than classes who can't heal

    fucking miss mop second wind.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    Ok, this is my last comment on the subject. It's because of class fantasy. The fury warrior is supposed to be this frothing, raging Berserker. (Blizzards own words as best I can recall them) Hence why they can only wield 2h weapons (RIP Single Minded Fury) as such, they would not be weighted down with "Armor" to prevent damage like a Man-at-arms would,(Arms Warrior) which is typically well-versed in the use of arms and served fully armored. The Berserker, from Vikings lore, would often run strait into battle wearing nothing but boots, pants, and a weapon or two, so they could move fast and free and without care, (what blizzard doesn't mention is the prevalent drug use by said berserkers, but you get why they could ignore the pain.) These are what Fury and Arms were based off when they redesigned the class fantasy, a Berserkers and a Man-at-arms. Fury takes additional damage when berserked to offset the addition damage of wielding two 2h Weapons. Why give them this penalty only to mitigate it with baseline mitigation. To further answer your questions I would recommend using blizzards new Wow forums, and hit up the Warrior forums. Hey you never know you may get a group large enough that think like you do about the matter and maybe start dialog with Blizzard for another class fantasy redesign. Good Luck and Happy Hunting.
    If this is your last post then so be it but I'm still not convinced that Arms only taking less damage is the solution. Fury or Viking warriors may have been intended to be the brute spec but Vikings still did use shields. Obviously neither Arms or Fury use shields but when Arms pops D stance there is an animation where you pull out a shield, Fury should be able to do that too. If its really about class fantasy all Warrior specs pool "Rage" to do anything so Enraged Regeneration would still fit the Arms without disruption fantasy.

    Even if Blizzard decided that Fury D Stance was a no go because they have healing that would still make sense because they have healing that surpasses the mitigation effectiveness that D stance can provide.

    I'm sure a team of Devs can get more creative than I can and there are many solutions I can think to employ.

    Examples:
    Rework second wind so that you can get less HP back but more frequently since its hard to not take damage for 5 seconds or maybe replace it all together.

    PvP talent like Weapons masters resolve- (on use) become determined to show true weapon mastery over your enemies recovering X amount of the damage taken in the last X seconds. (Kind of like a warrior temporal I guess but more about warrior resolve than magic)

    Rallying Cry/ Master and Commander rework adding an amount of leech while Rally is active. (Pretty sure it did at one time)

    Overpowered Glory- (like Battle Trance) using overpower on the same target twice in a row grants the warrior supreme confidence granting X% health to be restored over x seconds.

    Soldiers Glory- Make a taunting gesture at your enemy granting an absorption shield of X amount.

    Lone Soldier- Your confidence in your superior weapon skill makes it easy to react to your opponent allowing you to catch your breath. X amount of healing over X seconds.

    Fight for Life/ Life or Death/ Victory or Death- When you drop below 20-30% health gain a free use of Victory Rush. This affect can only be used once every 30+ seconds.

    Standard of Glory- Drop a battle standard for faction granting Pride for its duration. While pride is active recover 2% health every 1-2 seconds.

    Warsong- During Warsong the warrior takes less damage and recovers x amount of their health. Taking x amount of damage will stop the Warsong.

    I'm not a Dev so I get some of these may sound silly but as a team of experienced Devs you can't tell me they can't think of anything that would support Arms healing that could maintain class fantasy.

    As for the WoW warrior forum, I appreciate the feedback and perhaps I will look there too.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by lenek View Post
    I'm saying I disagree. Try it out, it's much better than you think. I have used it in all kinds of content and it has saved me countless times. I'd much rather be an alive warrior than a dead one with a shorter heroic leap cd (Bounding Strike).

    That's just my opinion. The guides online are just that... guides. Often they are just opinions...they aren't the only way to play the game. For me, having more self healing makes the game more enjoyable so that's what I pick.
    Yeah I agree, way to many people stuck on the meta builds. Do what you enjoy

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    Warpaint is there to offset the , I think it's, +30% damage taken when enraged.
    Enrage doesn't increase damage taken anymore.

  9. #49
    I'm in the camp that there should be less self healing in the game. Racials are cool for it and very minor abilities should heal unless that's part of the class fantasy. Warriors should always have to rely on a healer for heals but I am not against them being tanky even as a dps spec. Plate should negate more damage including magic damage and we should get more parry abilities. Commanding shout could be put on a shorter cool down. Thunder clap could help defensively by slowing enemies and slowing cast time.

  10. #50
    Arguing with a mage avatar for mages in a warrior forum. Instead of playing Mage vs. Warrior, try Warrior vs. Mage for a change. Then come back, oh wait you won't.

  11. #51
    To be honest, arms warrior did not have any significant heal for the majority of their presence. I think treating their currently basically non existent defensives in a preventing manner rather than due to heals fits the class fantasy best.

  12. #52
    I think the big thing is that rallying cry just isn't a good defensive. Using it while at high health means it effectively does nothing, because any damage taken isn't buffered by that extra health. The moment rallying cry falls off, you lose the extra health. Lets say you have 200k hp and pop rallying cry off the start for some reason and take 100k damage in that 10 seconds. The moment rallying cry falls you're still going to be at 100k, so it did jack all. Now if you use it at 1hp and get pumped up an additional 30k, then you basically have a 10 second 30k absorb shield. The moment it falls off, you're still back at 1hp ready to die to any dot on you, as you would with any absorb.

    I still need to test out how it works at the middle levels, but at max health its useless, and at low health it is effectively an absorb shield. I think at mid range health levels, the extra health will buffer a bit so you may lose like 27k hp when rally ends instead of all 30k, but its so minor that its ineffective.

    The only other defensive arms has outside of DBTS is defensive stance, and its a 25% gain to EHP at the cost of 20% damage in pvp.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    So long as every other dps has some form of decent self healing the only right answer is "Yes".

    i seen arms over the years get treated like the bastard step child compared to other class's specs.
    can go right down the list starting in wrath with dk's pallys sp feral druids shammys and on and on
    yet for some reason arms was told to stfu and l2p they also said arms cant have nice things like healing because arms has MS, yet they nerfed that to and gave it to other classes.

    100% complete and total bullshit what they have done to arms and the warrior class over the years. like you said other dps classes have heals so arms should to but thet will not let arms be the spec it should be. look at wrath dks and pallys were better tanks better healers better dps in both pve and pvp and yet arms had nothing where as rets and dks had massive self healing utility and top end damage, thats been the case ever since.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowsgrace View Post
    As a mage main with absolutely 0 natural self healing.... No you don't. Oh sure those Azurite traits are there... everyone has access to them. You're DPS your job is to deal damage and avoid incoming Damage at all costs, exactly what mages were told when we lost our self heals. At least you still have some form of it.

    did mages lose there op'ed cc that they have had since well forever?or are you one of them fire/arcane fan boys that qq'ed over the years cause frost was better in pvp and you wanted to play fire?thats the crap that ruined the game!every spec viable crap.


    what does arms offer over other specs?is arms the best #1 dps spec in pvp or pve?does arms have heals to keep themselves and other alive?does arms have cc thats in demand for pvp or pve? but MS right?good excuse.... lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    Fixed it for ya. If DPS classes are going to regularly too meters patch after patch they need to give that shit up.
    if dps specs cant heal then healing specs should do no dps

  14. #54
    Healing for the greater good!

  15. #55
    No, they don’t need to get more healing. Blizzard needs to stop giving all classes everything. It’s what ruined wow.

  16. #56
    Second wind would be cool if every single bastard, their their entire family and relatives didnt have lingering dots in their toolkit that disables it.

    Bring back old second wind that heals %max health when being critted. Either that or up the mitigationoptions significantly.

  17. #57
    Pandaren Monk Zigrifid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    1,999
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar Titan View Post
    Seems like not everyone I bring it up to agrees so thought I would make a forum post in hopes of getting a more stimulating response than trade chat can offer. Does anyone else feel like Arms warriors need some love in the healing department? Most content I prefer to play Arms and for the longest time I refused to play Fury just out of loyalty to my favorite spec but now I feel like in order for me to quest with Warmode on I need to be in fury just because of the healing the spec can offer. Fury still has Enraged Regen, Azerite Traits and multiple PVP talents that can bolster their healing and even Bloodthirst gives 5% of their health back on a less than 5 second cd but Arms only gets Victory Rush. It seems like Arms could benefit from some form of healing ability even if its something like Bloodthirst. Would it really be that bad if Arms had a small baseline heal or a PVP talent that could work similar to Fury's Battle Trance? Maybe Rally could make Victory Rush usable without killing a target but it would have a 3-4 Second CD? I'd obviously like to be able to heal more frequently like Fury but even being able to have a temporary healing cd every 2-3 minutes doesnt seem like it should be that OP and it might make Arms duels possible again.

    Is there no love for the Arms spec?
    Ill leave this here its from 1v1 which isnt meant to be balanced but shows the bad state :/

    https://i.imgur.com/Nu9IHkb.jpg

  18. #58
    The devs could also use health, armor and blockchance for Arms as means of defense. Arms doesn't need to heal like Fury, but if it can't heal it needs to be more tanky. Why does armor not matter in defense, why has a warrior such low hp, why can't he block attacks and such, especially as the suppsed Master of Arms. All this stuff could be used for Arms and it wouldn't even be hard to implement. Some number tuning for the specc, could be done in a fucking hot fix. But not even something like that these developers are able to do.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    then only classes with no self heal should be able to deal tons of damage

    its totally retarded how wow works in this aspect, self heal classes deal the same or even more damage than classes who can't heal

    fucking miss mop second wind.
    Coming from a long term DK player, It depends on how much self healing. If a DK wants to self heal now using death strike or whatever, you are limited obviously by runic power, its expensive as hell, and a single death strike dosent heal very much at all, so you are essentially trading a little bit of heal for the damage you might already be doing. They nerfed death strike healing like crazy over the years because it was so strong and now its really not that great. Id probably say that the problem is more how much healing a class can do, like the Warr vs DH image down below. Maybe the Warr should be healing more yeah, but thematically its probably accurate, I think maybe they should just be a bit harder to kill, some sort of extra damage reduction CD to fit into the theme of them being tough fighters. The DH just heals too much imo thats the problem in that image.

    Just a thought though xP

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhart11 View Post
    The devs could also use health, armor and blockchance for Arms as means of defense. Arms doesn't need to heal like Fury, but if it can't heal it needs to be more tanky. Why does armor not matter in defense, why has a warrior such low hp, why can't he block attacks and such, especially as the suppsed Master of Arms. All this stuff could be used for Arms and it wouldn't even be hard to implement. Some number tuning for the specc, could be done in a fucking hot fix. But not even something like that these developers are able to do.
    Agree with what you said, it should be more warrior and be tough, armored and hard to kill not heal a lot. The DH in the image above just heals too much and thats what should be nerfed in that case, combined with as you said above.

  20. #60
    Give arms enrage regen from back in the day

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •