View Poll Results: United Horde Vs Alliance

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  • United Horde

    56 43.75%
  • Alliance

    72 56.25%
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Current horde vs current Alliance would still have the horde lose even if they were united, Jaina has become OP, the Vindicar and now with a buffed Tyrande, Malfurion and Alleria which even in the hypotetical case they aren't near of the level of Jaina, those 3 are still more powerful than Baine, Saurfang or even Thalyssra. However the alliance lacks strategy which always comes back to bite back their ass so probably the outcome will be a long and bloody war with heavy casualties but the alliance win because they have many instant win buttons
    Yeah all of the horde leaders are muggles. Baine, Saurfang, Lorthemar, Geyarah are all warrior or rangers. Only real power is Sylvanas.

    I don't think the Vindicar is anywhere near combat ready. I'm not exactly sure how compatible azerite and argunite are, but if it can be retrofitted to work with azerite then we can talk

  2. #42
    The Alliance has stronger leaders, better technology, and better armies. That's why it won in MoP and why it's winning now. The Alliance has been objectively stronger than the Horde for all of WoW's lore

  3. #43
    I'm generally not into comparing power levels because there is more to fights/wars than dick size.... A simple peon can kill a war hero if the pitchfork hits the right spot.

    That said, the alliance simply has an overwhelming advantage this time around, arguably even if the Zandalari hadn't lost its fleet. I assume the wild gods of the nelves and the troll loa cancel each other out, the horde's superior physical strength (in terms of individuals) gets cancelled out by the alliance's technological superiority...

    In the end it kind of comes up to the god-like leaders of each faction, with just about every alliance leader but Gelbin being super powerful, and the horde only having Sylvanas (And Thrall?). For the sake of fairness, I'll assume that the Vindicaar is indeed rendered useless for whatever reason.

    Now, if the horde was able to turn the alliance against itself, then they could win regardless of how much of a military disadvantage they are at. Wars are not won with military might alone.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    That's the second wave of blight at that point both sides left the battlefield, the first wave was countered easily by Jaina. Shamans too can counter the blight with the wind like what Thrall did during the first siege.
    so she can counter spray can blight, just not actual blight in liquid form or heal anyone who has been afflicted and she can't be everywhere at once.

    So? If the Horde was united in Mop how would that prevented Jaina from destroying Ogrimmar?
    If it was, Thrall would have just zapped her to DEATH! But we're not talking about that moment, we're talking about now... right?

    Besides its in Dalaran, and they are not going to stay neutral forever if entire races are being exterminated, especially since most of the population is human who are Sylvanas number 1 target.
    Well no, the leadership of Dalaran has learned from their mistakes and is staying neutral until attacked. Sylvanas isn't going to attack Dalaran, while the Alliance still exists, if she were to at all. Her problem with the Alliance is that they will never stay at peace with the Horde and it's better to just wipe them or separate them. Dalaran isn't going to be coming to the Alliance's defense unless Sylvanas does something like Allying with Old Gods(she might, but not right now)

    If the blight is used in far more quantities against everyone, they are not going to do nothing, for example, the Silver hand order joined the war despite being neutral before.
    As long as the blight is contained to just Alliance and Horde settlements, they have no reason to get involved. It sometimes can be more confusing, especially with races of Order(Warhammer!) like humans, gnomes and dwarves, but not all Humans are actually under the Alliance banner. Take Western Plaguelands. Tirion and his dudes never came to the Alliance's aid when Sylvanas was wrecking them and they could have easily flanked her forces. I think I even recall the Horde killing farmers in the area too, but they swore allegiance to the Alliance and Tirion didn't give 2 shits.(talking about a dead dude, but he sets the neutral standard)

    Good luck against countless other world ending threats with a small force
    Basically how we've been doing it this whole time, but ok xD

    after defeating an enemy who would fight to the last person because of the acts of a certain genius.
    it's kinda weird how surprised these people were that Sylvanas wasn't taking prisoners, like they expected it. People who would fight to the last man, woman and child wouldn't have been surprised that she had all the villages slaughtered and the tree full of surrendering elves burned. But in the end, she'll just raise more of them.

    And hoping the resurrected people don't backstab you like when Godfrey did with Sylvanas.
    There's a lot of contradictions that happened in that zone. Mages fighting to the very end, change their tune immediately upon resurrection to fight for the people who just killed them. Godfrey who wasn't killed by them, backstabbing them(that's more inline with the free will, but the mages.. wtf with the mages!) and then Godfrey can use necromancy, which we just learned is something they retconned the Forsaken not being able to do without Valkyr...

    So a lot of confusing stuff on that end, but I think Sylvanas new policy is to resurrect anyone who will be loyal(Apparently Valkyr can tell who will and wont now), but still an undead version of someone is more likely to be ok with the Forsaken than a living version of them was originally, which is what she wants.

    Yep, mana bombing everything and summoning elementals of fire to burn everyting, like what the dark irons did.
    That would be awesome, to see some more radical alliance who stick it to Anduin's "We're no better than them, if we use the same tactics" Really this should have been a thing from the start of BFA, people who think the boy king isn't experienced enough to get the job done.

    But alast, blowing up everything then brings those neutral factions against you. Dalaran, the Shamans, all of them would stop that from happening, even members of the Alliance would too. Would make a great plot though.

    If they are losing and extinction is the result of defeat, then no.
    You're talking about the neutral factions, right? The factions that Sylvanas isn't attacking and hasn't made any plans to attack? no, there's no extinction for the humans of Dalaran, there isn't even one for the Night Elves of Cenarion Circle who she hasn't attacked on Kalimdor(unless I missed a mission table that did it).

    Right now the Horde is lorewise weeks from defeat
    Care to explain where and how this is happening? Anduin himself has stated he can't beat her, his army used up the last of their reserves and is calling farmers to fight. But don't worry, the Forsaken will make sure the grain gets to the city xD

    despite the fact their forces are united
    They're not, not even close. We have most of the leaders who are against Sylvanas, with some even sabotaging the Horde, killing it's members for their honor. A unified Horde would be that all their members act in accordance and prioritize the defeat of their enemies above all else, including their honor.
    Baine didnt turn against Sylvanas until after the siege of Zandalar
    Baine isn't the only leader/character... and he's also not done anything else for the Horde either(when Baine finally moves and gets voice acting, it's only ever to hinder the Horde). And one Orc* Saurfang who spared Malfurion and Anduin, Malfurion who is still killing Horde soldiers in Darkshore(thanks Saurfang) and could have continued leading Horde forces into battle across the world.

    Also before or after a siege doesn't matter. Sylvanas has been planning to use Derek against the Proudmoore's for a while, Baine has taken that chance to turn the war around(or maybe not, Garrosh was smart enough to use Baine, maybe Sylvanas is too)

    There arent yet any actuall rebellions inside the Horde, and yet they are losing the war, hm....
    There doesn't have to be active rebellions. Take a look at you for instance, you heavily use a single character to counter the entire Horde's use of Blight and that character being Jaina. You put so much emphasis on one character's importance, but then don't acknowledge others... weird.

    Almost all of the leadership of the Horde is in doubt or against Sylvanas' methods. Sylvanas' methods are cold and calculating and if the rest of the Horde's leadership acted similar, we'd see much more from their forces. Jaina is one character, she's a marysue for sure that has been powered up like crazy with little to no logic why, but she can't be everywhere at once and the blight can be. But the blight isn't, because only Forsaken are willing to use, but this is a unified discussion.

    The Alliance are barely winning and that's with Jaina already. If the Horde were to actually be unified under Sylvanas' leadership, that barely winning alliance wouldn't be winning at all. And I want to you to think of something next time you use Jaina to solve an entire factions problems, we have Oculeth and he could kill Jaina and entire armies if he wanted to. I'm just sayin

  5. #45
    Bloodsail Admiral rogoth's Avatar
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    if we are talking pure lore numbers here based on best guesses for racial populations, the alliance would destroy the horde due to having the vast numbers advantage, that being said 'cos gameplay' they would never actually allow that in game so here we are with the n'th try at horde v alliance and it never works because honestly nobody really cares anymore, it was cool at the time in classic as it was what the game was built on coming from the RTS games as a basis, but now the number of players left from that era compared to the casual masses who started relatively recently is so small that this forced conflict for no reason is just old hat and tiresome.

    retired march 2013 RIP - returned january 2016, purely because paladins finally get Ashbringer!

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    so she can counter spray can blight, just not actual blight in liquid form or heal anyone who has been afflicted and she can't be everywhere at once.
    Liquid form? Just watch the cinematic, the Blight is not unbeatable, and you need to produce it to do it at a large scale, which is a lot harder now since the main blight productions centers are deserted in Tirifal.

    If it was, Thrall would have just zapped her to DEATH! But we're not talking about that moment, we're talking about now... right?
    Jaina could have killed Thrall since he was busy holding back the wawes. So the point is if the Horde was united in Mop it would have made no difference, Ogrimmar would have still been destroyed.

    Well no, the leadership of Dalaran has learned from their mistakes and is staying neutral until attacked. Sylvanas isn't going to attack Dalaran, while the Alliance still exists, if she were to at all. Her problem with the Alliance is that they will never stay at peace with the Horde and it's better to just wipe them or separate them. Dalaran isn't going to be coming to the Alliance's defense unless Sylvanas does something like Allying with Old Gods(she might, but not right now)
    Dalaran will not just watch as 99% percent of humanity is being wiped out, one of the leaders of Dalaran is Khadgar, Turalyons best friend, who is currently fighting in the war,

    As long as the blight is contained to just Alliance and Horde settlements, they have no reason to get involved. It sometimes can be more confusing, especially with races of Order(Warhammer!) like humans, gnomes and dwarves, but not all Humans are actually under the Alliance banner. Take Western Plaguelands. Tirion and his dudes never came to the Alliance's aid when Sylvanas was wrecking them and they could have easily flanked her forces. I think I even recall the Horde killing farmers in the area too, but they swore allegiance to the Alliance and Tirion didn't give 2 shits.(talking about a dead dude, but he sets the neutral standard)
    That's why the Order of the Silver hand didn't involved themselves in the war? Oh wait they did.


    Basically how we've been doing it this whole time, but ok xD
    Half of the raids were won by the Alliance, what would have happened to the Blood elves if Velen and the Alliance didnt save them from Kiljaden?


    it's kinda weird how surprised these people were that Sylvanas wasn't taking prisoners, like they expected it. People who would fight to the last man, woman and child wouldn't have been surprised that she had all the villages slaughtered and the tree full of surrendering elves burned. But in the end, she'll just raise more of them.
    They weren't expecting the Horde at large to follow that kind of orders.


    There's a lot of contradictions that happened in that zone. Mages fighting to the very end, change their tune immediately upon resurrection to fight for the people who just killed them. Godfrey who wasn't killed by them, backstabbing them(that's more inline with the free will, but the mages.. wtf with the mages!) and then Godfrey can use necromancy, which we just learned is something they retconned the Forsaken not being able to do without Valkyr...

    So a lot of confusing stuff on that end, but I think Sylvanas new policy is to resurrect anyone who will be loyal(Apparently Valkyr can tell who will and wont now), but still an undead version of someone is more likely to be ok with the Forsaken than a living version of them was originally, which is what she wants
    .

    Valkyr can sense who is willing to be resurrected, that doesn't mean they will be loyal. Godfrey prob wanted to be resurrected and look how that turned out for Sylvanas.

    That would be awesome, to see some more radical alliance who stick it to Anduin's "We're no better than them, if we use the same tactics" Really this should have been a thing from the start of BFA, people who think the boy king isn't experienced enough to get the job done.

    But alast, blowing up everything then brings those neutral factions against you. Dalaran, the Shamans, all of them would stop that from happening, even members of the Alliance would too. Would make a great plot though.
    You're talking about the neutral factions, right? The factions that Sylvanas isn't attacking and hasn't made any plans to attack? no, there's no extinction for the humans of Dalaran, there isn't even one for the Night Elves of Cenarion Circle who she hasn't attacked on Kalimdor(unless I missed a mission table that did it).
    Those factions wouldn't stand aside if their races are exterminated. Period. Not talking about taking lands, but exterminated

    Care to explain where and how this is happening? Anduin himself has stated he can't beat her, his army used up the last of their reserves and is calling farmers to fight. But don't worry, the Forsaken will make sure the grain gets to the city xD
    After the raid, both the Alliance and Horde leaders say the Alliance is weeks from victory.

    They're not, not even close. We have most of the leaders who are against Sylvanas, with some even sabotaging the Horde, killing it's members for their honor. A unified Horde would be that all their members act in accordance and prioritize the defeat of their enemies above all else, including their honor.
    How are they against Sylvanas? Saying some comments in secret doesn't mean anything as long as their forces are behind Sylvanas, which they are, currently.

    Baine isn't the only leader/character... and he's also not done anything else for the Horde either(when Baine finally moves and gets voice acting, it's only ever to hinder the Horde). And one Orc* Saurfang who spared Malfurion and Anduin, Malfurion who is still killing Horde soldiers in Darkshore(thanks Saurfang) and could have continued leading Horde forces into battle across the world.
    Right now its just Baine and Saurfang, Anduin is whats keeping the Alliance from destroying the Horde, and Malfurion death would only result in him becoming a maytr, the plan should be to capture him and parade him in chains, not killing him while his forces are outnumbered 8 to 1, thats how you create a maytr.

    Also before or after a siege doesn't matter. Sylvanas has been planning to use Derek against the Proudmoore's for a while, Baine has taken that chance to turn the war around(or maybe not, Garrosh was smart enough to use Baine, maybe Sylvanas is too)
    The Derek plan would fail regardless of Baine because Darek is being taken to Calia and not to KT like Sylvanas expected.

    There doesn't have to be active rebellions. Take a look at you for instance, you heavily use a single character to counter the entire Horde's use of Blight and that character being Jaina. You put so much emphasis on one character's importance, but then don't acknowledge others... weird.
    Baine and Saurfang are not at a power lever like Jaina. Jaina singlehandedly turned the tide of the entire battle, when did Baine and Saurfang do that on their own?

    Almost all of the leadership of the Horde is in doubt or against Sylvanas' methods. Sylvanas' methods are cold and calculating and if the rest of the Horde's leadership acted similar, we'd see much more from their forces. Jaina is one character, she's a marysue for sure that has been powered up like crazy with little to no logic why, but she can't be everywhere at once and the blight can be. But the blight isn't, because only Forsaken are willing to use, but this is a unified discussion.
    Lol, again the entire Horde military is currently under Sylvanas, they are not fighting her forces but those of the Alliance, as such at this point their doubts in her means nothing to the war effort.

    And you dont know what a mary sue is.

    The Alliance are barely winning and that's with Jaina already. If the Horde were to actually be unified under Sylvanas' leadership, that barely winning alliance wouldn't be winning at all. And I want to you to think of something next time you use Jaina to solve an entire factions problems, we have Oculeth and he could kill Jaina and entire armies if he wanted to. I'm just sayin
    They are not barely winning, again look up the aftermath of the raid.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-03-30 at 06:16 PM.

  7. #47
    Scarab Lord Maxrokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zlygork View Post

    Now, if the horde was able to turn the alliance against itself, then they could win regardless of how much of a military disadvantage they are at. Wars are not won with military might alone.
    Nope but it helps to hold the unity within the military group as we saw recently, most of the alliance races needs the numbers and the op leaders of the humans or else the horde will crush then, also they tend to do the biggest sacrifice like sending most of their population into war or being the backbone of the alliance army. The only way to break the alliance is in the same way as the horde with some hot-head evil and selfish warlord or a very authoriatian person. This is why I always saw the plan of dividing the alliance being foolish, they only break apart when the danger was "over" and not even the betray of Pereneholde broke then, just made their bound stronger.


    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Yeah all of the horde leaders are muggles. Baine, Saurfang, Lorthemar, Geyarah are all warrior or rangers. Only real power is Sylvanas.

    I don't think the Vindicar is anywhere near combat ready. I'm not exactly sure how compatible azerite and argunite are, but if it can be retrofitted to work with azerite then we can talk
    I am sure Azerite could use be used in the same way since both resources are just titan blood in liquid state, now the interesting thing about Azerite could be used as some short boost of power as we saw in the book with Anduin and Sylvanas touching, Saurfang could go full Hulk with that thing, Baine the Juggernaut from X-Men and Theron or Thalyssra could use it to empower their spells and weapons to anime levels but such things will not happend.

    The Azerite is just a wasted opportunity to make this conflict more interesting and realistic because a shiny stone capable of transforming average guys into super saiyans is a huge deal-
    Last edited by Maxrokur; 2019-03-30 at 08:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by UnluckyAmateur View Post
    We know how the story goes since it happened like 5 times before. The Horde with its evil leader steamrolls over another faction's city and burns it down (Teldrasil = Stormwind) then the other leaders come together and demolish the horde and the cycle repeats.
    Which alliance cities have been "steamrolled" other than when saurfang convinced the horde leaders to go to teldrassil?

    Since you claim the horde has steamrolled alliance cities "like 5 times before".
    Last edited by Mardux; 2019-03-30 at 09:05 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    Which alliance cities have been "steamrolled" other than when saurfang convinced the horde leaders to go to teldrassil?

    Since you claim the horde has steamrolled alliance cities "like 5 times before".
    They sacked Stormwind in the first war. They had the dwarves barricaded in iron forge during the second war. The horde flattened Theramore. The horde burned down teldrassil

  10. #50
    Scarab Lord A Chozo's Avatar
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    The Alliance won the moment they got the Army of the Light on their side.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    The Alliance won the moment they got the Army of the Light on their side.
    What army. I see only few pale aliens and a weeb.

  12. #52
    One thing I don't understand is how people compare humans and orcs or tauren as equivalent units. There is no "honor" in a human fighting a tauren or orc in the same way that there'd be no honor in me fighting a professional boxer. Most of the races of the Horde are simply far stronger than those of the Alliance. The exception is the worgen and maybe the night elves or the lightforged. Meanwhile orcs, tauren, Forsaken and trolls are all individually far stronger than humans, dwarves or gnomes.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    One thing I don't understand is how people compare humans and orcs or tauren as equivalent units. There is no "honor" in a human fighting a tauren or orc in the same way that there'd be no honor in me fighting a professional boxer. Most of the races of the Horde are simply far stronger than those of the Alliance. The exception is the worgen and maybe the night elves or the lightforged. Meanwhile orcs, tauren, Forsaken and trolls are all individually far stronger than humans, dwarves or gnomes.
    The Tauren are the strongest race when it comes to individual strength, but that orc and human in the opening cinematic in Mop seem to be in equal strength and BFA with Anduin bitch slapping 2 grunts with a sword, though that could be because of light magic.

    As for the Forsaken how strong are they? One day they cant hug people out of fear they will break apart, and the other they are fighting normally.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-04-02 at 01:05 PM.

  14. #54
    The Insane Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    The Tauren are the strongest race when it comes to individual strength, but that orc and human in the opening cinematic in Mop seem to be in equal strength and BFA with Anduin bitch slapping 2 grunts with a sword, though that could be because of light magic.

    As for the Forsaken how strong are they? One day they cant hug people out of fear they will break apart, and the other they are fighting normally.
    One grunt was equal to what, two footmen in warcraft three, unless they are fighting specialized units orcs have always had the advantage through speed, size and strength over humans , not to mention having better eye sight etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    One grunt was equal to what, two footmen in warcraft three, unless they are fighting specialized units orcs have always had the advantage through speed, size and strength over humans , not to mention having better eye sight etc.
    Size and strength yes but speed and sight? Anyway its common, in most fantasy stories orcs are the stronger more savage warriors, as there are in the Warcraft movie, but in Wow that cinematic doesn't portray a human in a disadvantage.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-04-02 at 02:23 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Size and strength but speed and sight? Anyway its common, in most fantasy orcs are the stronger more savage warriors, as there are in the Warcraft movie, but in Wow that cinematic doesn't portray a human in a disadvantage.
    Because at one point, Blizzard decided that humans shouldnt be humans but some kind of overmuscled abomination.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Because at one point, Blizzard decided that humans shouldnt be humans but some kind of overmuscled abomination.
    Well Azeroth humans are of titanforge ancestry, not chimpanzees.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Well Azeroth humans are of titanforge ancestry, not chimpanzees.
    They didnt used to be though, it was some mutation introduced some time after Burning Crusade. It also increased their Potential tenfold.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Because at one point, Blizzard decided that humans shouldnt be humans but some kind of overmuscled abomination.
    Most races are in warcraft are overmuscled abomination, at least male characters

  20. #60
    The Horde is striclty superior to the Alliance, on a lot of point.

    - Orc, Troll and Tauren warrior totally crush the little footmen and other alliance soldier. Even elite dwarf warrior or the feral worgen, while strong, can compete.

    - Same with magic, Blood elve and Nightborne dominate the other race on this subject.

    - And finally, it's the same with tech. While less reliable, Goblin technology show more prowess than gnome tech when related to warfare. Draenei tech is good but not focused on war on the contrary to the maghar tech, which is totally focused on war and decimate Allaince rank (Iron star for example)


    The only exception to this rule is the Alliance heroes, Aka Varian, Furion, Tyrande, Jaina who often change the tide of battle and are made OP. They are a necessity to keep balance and help the weakest faction to win against the strongest, as it has always been since War2

    So Horde has might, magic and tech, but lose due to plot and very strong Alliance heroes

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