View Poll Results: United Horde Vs Alliance

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  • United Horde

    56 43.75%
  • Alliance

    72 56.25%
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  1. #61
    Mechagnome
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    Well a United Horde would have the advantage as that is the entire point of the Alliance. A lot of disparate tribes and broken civilizations becomes one zerg it can take down the separate kingdoms, hence the assault on one of us is an assault on all style of the Alliance. The problem being none of this actually comes into play but as its -supposed- to be portrayed a United Horde hitting each Alliance state separately with its full force would likely win.

  2. #62
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Size and strength yes but speed and sight? Anyway its common, in most fantasy stories orcs are the stronger more savage warriors, as there are in the Warcraft movie, but in Wow that cinematic doesn't portray a human in a disadvantage.
    It’s only a myth that jacked people are slow, they explosive movement. Thrall notes he could see much better than humans could at night in lord of the clans.

    The human in the cinematic used physics, somewhat shoddy physics as his knees should have shattered trying to redirect the momentum of the orc.

    The warcraft movie does a jood job showing the natural strengths of orcs vs humans. Humans have to be better trained, think to beat an orc, but a thinking orc is a pretty dangerous opponent.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    It’s only a myth that jacked people are slow, they explosive movement.
    Yes the orcs should be faster compared to RL humans, but again it depends how strong in comparison are Azeroth humans.

    Thrall notes he could see much better than humans could at night in lord of the clans.
    Interesting,didnt know that.

    The human in the cinematic used physics, somewhat shoddy physics as his knees should have shattered trying to redirect the momentum of the orc.
    The orc with his leg hit that human chest but it didn't do much in terms of breaking any bones and he just got back up, and he wasn't smaller than him either.

    The warcraft movie does a jood job showing the natural strengths of orcs vs humans. Humans have to be better trained, think to beat an orc, but a thinking orc is a pretty dangerous opponent.
    Yes in the movies the humans are like RL humans, but in Wow they seem diffrient in terms of strength if we go by that cinematic.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-04-02 at 08:26 PM.

  4. #64
    Dreadlord Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Horde didn't lose for lack of manpower. We lost for the same reason we always do - some jackass goes traitor. In this case, it was Orgrim separating his forces and Gul'dan bailing. Were even just the clans Gul'dan had with him been back with Orgrim, it's mentioned he would've won at Lordaeron.
    To be fair the same can be said for the Alliance in Warcraft 2, The horde would have been stuck, and most likely slaughtered in Alteriac mountains had Perenold not made a deal with the Horde... But people like to ignore that lore point :P

    Don't say I wouldn't have happened, Trollbain later took a small force and did just that effectively cutting of the remaining horde reinforcements en rout to the capitol

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    To be fair the same can be said for the Alliance in Warcraft 2, The horde would have been stuck, and most likely slaughtered in Alteriac mountains had Perenold not made a deal with the Horde... But people like to ignore that lore point :P

    Don't say I wouldn't have happened, Trollbain later took a small force and did just that effectively cutting of the remaining horde reinforcements en rout to the capitol
    I actually agree. The Second War is one of the few wars in this game where we can actually argue from an in-story perspective, since it cared about things like numbers and logistics.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  6. #66
    The Alliance should be able to drown the Horde through sheer weight of numbers, nevermind it's technological advantages, if the story made any consistent sense.

    But it doesn't. So here we are.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    The Horde, sadly, will never be united. Every time we fight the Alliance we end up fighting each other instead. It’s boring and I’m sick of it.

    Even if we were united we probably wouldn’t win. The Alliance has too many OP characters that they can use against us. Something Blizzard hasn’t bothered sorting out, creating a massive lore power gap. It’s pretty frustrating for both sides since the Alliance is shackled and the Horde feels like it’s getting handicap benefits instead of being able to fight fairly.
    It also creates plot holes that are irritating Alliance-side. For example, after Teldrassil was put to the torch and Darkshore desecrated, why aren't the Ancients out there ripping the Horde a new one, for all the lip service they pay to favoring the kaldorei and about protecting nature? Why didn't the Lightforged bombard the Horde from orbit while they were stonewalled by the wisps? If the Vindicaar was out of commission, why wasn't it mentioned as being so? Why didn't Jaina bring Dalaran to Orgrimmar and air-to-surface mass bombard the True Horde's exterior defenses? I don't think Galakras would have survived long with every mage in Dalaran who wasn't focused on keeping it afloat slinging Pyroblasts at it. What's up with Jaina having the Thunder King's essence in her staff and never unleashing something that was powerful enough to subdue a Titan Watcher singlehandedly?

    The faction war was hamstrung far more than helped by WoW's existence as an MMORPG. By necessity, no gains will ever be made in a meaningful way. Losing Teldrassil/UC was the most ambitious step forward the faction war's taken since Warcraft II and it was followed up with more of the same tit for tat with the Horde sabotaging itself and the Alliance keeping their big guns mothballed. It's a good thing they're finally getting the expansion's real story underway in 8.2 because man, did they fuck up the PvP side of the story once again.
    Battle for Azeroth: Now with more Morally Grey™!*

    ​*Morally Grey is about as morally complex as an episode of Whacky Racers.



  8. #68
    Scarab Lord Maxrokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    It also creates plot holes that are irritating Alliance-side. For example, after Teldrassil was put to the torch and Darkshore desecrated, why aren't the Ancients out there ripping the Horde a new one, for all the lip service they pay to favoring the kaldorei and about protecting nature? Why didn't the Lightforged bombard the Horde from orbit while they were stonewalled by the wisps? If the Vindicaar was out of commission, why wasn't it mentioned as being so? Why didn't Jaina bring Dalaran to Orgrimmar and air-to-surface mass bombard the True Horde's exterior defenses? I don't think Galakras would have survived long with every mage in Dalaran who wasn't focused on keeping it afloat slinging Pyroblasts at it. What's up with Jaina having the Thunder King's essence in her staff and never unleashing something that was powerful enough to subdue a Titan Watcher singlehandedly?

    The faction war was hamstrung far more than helped by WoW's existence as an MMORPG. By necessity, no gains will ever be made in a meaningful way. Losing Teldrassil/UC was the most ambitious step forward the faction war's taken since Warcraft II and it was followed up with more of the same tit for tat with the Horde sabotaging itself and the Alliance keeping their big guns mothballed. It's a good thing they're finally getting the expansion's real story underway in 8.2 because man, did they fuck up the PvP side of the story once again.
    1)Jaina staff only has the power of the thunder island, Wrathion got most of the power of Lei Shen.

    2)Dalaran doesn't give a damm about the well being of others nation, they never did even in the 2nd and 3rd war which is why they got most of their city and population destroyed by the scourge

    3) Only Cenarius cares about the nelves, although I won't discard the stupidity of the forsakens to piss off the loa and the wild gods at some point.

    4) I agree with the vindicar being out of commision off screen is truly idiotic and they even admit it in some interview
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    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  9. #69
    United how? In "honor" cause if it's that kind of union the Horde are screwed, in fact it wouldn't even be a battle, it would just be submission to the Alliance.

    On the other hand, a Horde focused less on "honor" and more on results would be, I think, unstoppable. Of course that is only if you assume the Alliance is the same bad joke we have on our screens today.

  10. #70
    The Horde, with Sylvanas's horrendous, yet effective tactics managing to overwhelm the Alliance when they're not willing to do the same.

    The issue of course is that the Horde isn't united on that front, as Sylvanas continually undermines the things that keep the Horde together, which has already cost her 3 faction leaders. (the desolate council, Saurfang, and Baine)

    United under the concept of "honor" under someone like Saurfang or Baine? Probably the same stalemate we've gotten accustomed to.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitedragon View Post
    To be fair the same can be said for the Alliance in Warcraft 2, The horde would have been stuck, and most likely slaughtered in Alteriac mountains had Perenold not made a deal with the Horde... But people like to ignore that lore point :P
    Perenolde changed side because he was too weak. Like Italy, her prefers joining enemy to dying. If he didn't betray, his nation would be slaughtered and Horde would still get to Lordaeron.
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
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  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by NPI View Post
    The horde has no chance at all, theoretically the Alliance has manpower, technological and magical advantage. Also, we have Velen (watch the movie: Edge of Tomorrow, to understand while he is an ultimate superweapon)

    The only thing why horde still exists is that its needed for subscriptions.
    No Alliance doesn't have the manpower that was the reason why they had to retreat from Dazar'Alor. Also people are overetimating the power of Vindicar as it only was able to make a hole to enter Antorus. It's not designed to oblibertate cities.
    Sd for Velen he was only seen using protection shields which is something that Talanji also can.

    As for the answer, - I don't know. It really depends on on lots of factors, mainly who devs wants to win. Many times factions which had all the advantages in the world couldn't press on for reasons. And let's not pretend that Warcraft lore is consistant or reasonably written.

  13. #73
    I do love the recurring strawman in this forum: "Not mass murdering Alliance is submitting to them! Honor bad!"

  14. #74
    Dreadlord Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Perenolde changed side because he was too weak. Like Italy, her prefers joining enemy to dying. If he didn't betray, his nation would be slaughtered and Horde would still get to Lordaeron.
    That is literally just an assumption by you. The characters in the book make mention on how easy it would be to hold the mountain passes from enemy forces. As a good example as to why this is true, Trollbane later in the book did managed to cut the horde army off from its reinforcements with a small brigade of men in a land his people couldn't have been more familiar with then the natives. Nothing indicates that the nation was so worthless that they didn't have the man power to hold the Horde back long enough for the Allaince to box them in, the biggest problem was that Perenold didn't value/care for the Alliance or the other nations, and thought he could gain power if the Horde did win, and knowing that Lordaeron was mostly defenseless he made a gamble that they would size the capitol city and win the war, as we see this bit him in the bum very badly.
    Last edited by Whitedragon; 2019-04-11 at 05:25 AM.

  15. #75
    Old God Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nysisyn View Post
    The Horde is striclty superior to the Alliance, on a lot of point.

    - Orc, Troll and Tauren warrior totally crush the little footmen and other alliance soldier. Even elite dwarf warrior or the feral worgen, while strong, can compete.

    - Same with magic, Blood elve and Nightborne dominate the other race on this subject.

    - And finally, it's the same with tech. While less reliable, Goblin technology show more prowess than gnome tech when related to warfare. Draenei tech is good but not focused on war on the contrary to the maghar tech, which is totally focused on war and decimate Allaince rank (Iron star for example)


    The only exception to this rule is the Alliance heroes, Aka Varian, Furion, Tyrande, Jaina who often change the tide of battle and are made OP. They are a necessity to keep balance and help the weakest faction to win against the strongest, as it has always been since War2

    So Horde has might, magic and tech, but lose due to plot and very strong Alliance heroes
    I may not word it that way, but is true.

    Though the Gnome tech have shown certain power over the Goblin Tech when we saw Mechatorque vs Galliwix, but still true that the Horde have better warfare tech than the Alliance

  16. #76
    Dreadlord Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramz View Post
    No Alliance doesn't have the manpower that was the reason why they had to retreat from Dazar'Alor. Also people are overetimating the power of Vindicar as it only was able to make a hole to enter Antorus. It's not designed to oblibertate cities.
    Sd for Velen he was only seen using protection shields which is something that Talanji also can.
    In lore most of the Main horde races are supposed to be relatively small in number compared to the Alliance races (some of them being in shambles numbers wise), that's why you occasionally see people wonder where the new new new army of orcs or bloodelves came from when we keep seeing them show up.

    This was somewhat fixed with the allied races given to the Horde boosting population numbers, but even then, without solid numbers I would still lean more Alliance side as it goes for population.

    Some people will say "well In the Cinematic gen says "we will be sending the farmers next" so the Alliance is running out", to which I reply okay, and most of the horde had to have been doing this for a lot longer. You cant tell me that the bloodelves, trolls, Orcs, goblins, or even tauren are sitting on anything other then young conscripted troops by now, with a civilian population entirely consisting of the wounded, crippled, and very old...

    Admittedly Blizzard never seems to care much for actual populations and sustainability, or things like the logistics, production, and supplies needed to fuel a races that is even just barely scraping by... That's why I'm betting that the Alliance is going to get toughs Jinyu/Fish guys we got to see at blizzcon as an Allied race, who where stated to be beyond regrowth, and we will see them... EVERYWHERE....

  17. #77
    The narrative team /Danuser and Alex hold things back. They can't really tell a good story that keeps players immersed. BFA is proof of that.

  18. #78
    Alliance wins, no contest. Anyone that thinks otherwise isn't paying attention or is blinded by a tremendous bias.

    The draenei alone could potentially conquer Azeroth if they really wanted to and weren't restrained by out of game things like "the Vindicaar wouldn't make the story interesting, so we're not going to use it". They've been around two and a half times longer than the oldest elves and have the magical prowess that comes with that. Their technology is as strong or stronger than goblin/gnomish technology with none of the drawbacks - lightforged warframes were unstoppable killing machines on Argus but they had to be nerfed once lightforged became a playable race and entered the faction conflict. If they could convince some naaru to aide them (and considering AU Draenor, there's a decent chance they could) it would be even easier.

    Worst case scenario, Sylvanas pulls ridiculous amounts of blight out of her ass and blights the whole world so no one wins, but in no reasonable scenario as things are right now does the Horde win.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by seleri View Post
    Alliance wins, no contest. Anyone that thinks otherwise isn't paying attention or is blinded by a tremendous bias.

    The draenei alone could potentially conquer Azeroth if they really wanted to and weren't restrained by out of game things like "the Vindicaar wouldn't make the story interesting, so we're not going to use it". They've been around two and a half times longer than the oldest elves and have the magical prowess that comes with that. Their technology is as strong or stronger than goblin/gnomish technology with none of the drawbacks - lightforged warframes were unstoppable killing machines on Argus but they had to be nerfed once lightforged became a playable race and entered the faction conflict. If they could convince some naaru to aide them (and considering AU Draenor, there's a decent chance they could) it would be even easier.

    Worst case scenario, Sylvanas pulls ridiculous amounts of blight out of her ass and blights the whole world so no one wins, but in no reasonable scenario as things are right now does the Horde win.
    But the draenei have suffered heavy losses in Legion. Their numbers have dwindled significantly. If both sides used all their resources, the Mag'har could build another massive siege weapon and blow the Vindicaar out of the sky. The warframes are definitely not unstoppable. if the Horde was unified they would win through factors like sheer numbers and magical prowess in the case of the Nightborne and Sin'dorei. Sure the draenei have been around longer bu the vast majority of their powerful spellcasters had become the Man'ari.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    But the draenei have suffered heavy losses in Legion. Their numbers have dwindled significantly. If both sides used all their resources, the Mag'har could build another massive siege weapon and blow the Vindicaar out of the sky. The warframes are definitely not unstoppable. if the Horde was unified they would win through factors like sheer numbers and magical prowess in the case of the Nightborne and Sin'dorei. Sure the draenei have been around longer bu the vast majority of their powerful spellcasters had become the Man'ari.
    No more losses than anyone else.

    There is absolutely no evidence the mag'har could build a weapon powerful enough to shoot the Vindicaar out of orbit or even out of the sky. The huge cannon we saw in WoD shot out iron stars that traveled close to the ground. The tech clearly didn't help them against Yrel's army in AU Draenor. Goblins have a better chance of doing something like that (since that's where the Iron Horde got their tech from to begin with) and the only thing we've ever seen from them that might be capable is the cannon in Azshara, which we don't even know works.

    Nothing suggests nightborne have any more magical prowess than draenei. In fact, we haven't seen any of the nightborne that allied with the Horde do anything very impressive and we have no idea what kind of power they have now that they don't have the Nightwell. Oculeth's teleportation is the best we've seen and it's on par with Jaina's mass teleporting.

    Similar case with blood elves, but they do have the Sunwell to help them out. So they might be able to put up the Ban'dinoriel to protect Silvermoon at least.

    And again, this is all just to counter the draenei. The Alliance also have the other races plus Malfurion, Tyrande, Jaina, and Alleria which are forces to be reckoned with on their own.

    This is why the faction war is the worst part of WoW's lore. It can never be truly won or lost for gameplay reasons so it has to stay a stalemate even though it should be incredibly lopsided.

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