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  1. #1

    Question Zelling made me rethink the Undead's mortality

    So your average Forsaken can be killed with a single arrow?

    What?

    All this time, I thought the Undead's key battlefield advantage was their durability. Stab them, damage them, hack off their arm or leg, and they'll just pick it up and start hitting you with it. They already have bits hanging off, and the more self-conscious ones graft other people's bits on to make them look more "whole".

    "Yes, they're real. They're not mine, but they're real!"

    And yet Zelling was KILLED with a single arrow to the chest.

    WHAT?!

    Unless this was some sort of "magic anti-Undead" arrow, this completely negates everything I believed about the Undead's mortality. Compound this with that one time Lord Godfrey shot and "killed" Sylvanas. But I always explained that away by insisting that he shot her in the head and damaged her brain, which is the core part of any Undead and what keeps them going. Injure or maim then in other ways, and they just shrug it off. But a head shot? That's terminal. And in Sylvanas' case, took THREE Valkyr's combined efforts to bring her back instead of just one.

    But apparantly not! I guess Godfrey just shot her in the back, and Forsaken being as frail and mortal as any human, a single bullet simply killed her. Apparently, Undead still have functioning hearts and organs and nervous systems, and being raised simply gave the system a kickstart. They're still reliant on their physical bodies to "live", and if any vital organ is damaged (like, say, being shot by an arrow), they're dead again.

    I guess this means the only advantage Undead have against mortal races is the lack of any need to sleep or breathe, and potentially a general that can continually raise reinforcements. Which is certainly a great advantage, but not the one I always attributed to them: near indestructability. A single arrow is enough to kill an Undead, as it is with every mortal race.

    I don't know if that's a massive retcon or I simply misinterpreted what it means to be Undead all this time. But the sad thing is it cancels out my favorite fan theories for two key Forsaken plot points: Sylvanas' bare midriff, and Lilian Voss' "death" in Scholomance.






    Why does Sylvanas show off her midriff? Why not wear armor?


    She wants people to shoot her in the exposed area. It's the same reasoning why Batman wears a bright yellow logo on the center of his chest; it's so gun-wielding criminals instinctively aim there, where he can protect himself with layers of bullet-proof armor, which he can't do with his face.

    Sylvanas' only vulnerable spot is her head, which she shields with layers of protective padding in her cloak. Her entire outfit is visually designed to be dark and blend in with her surroundings... except her midsection, which is exposed, bright, and draws the attention of shooters who see it as an easier target to aim for. By drawing enemy fire to her belly and away from her head, she increases her chance of survival in a fight.





    Didn't Lilian Voss die in Mists of Pandaria?


    Lilian just wasn't used to being undead yet. If your brain isn't crushed, then you're still going.

    Lilian suffered what would have been a fatal wound to a human, and that was how she was still thinking. It's the little things that humans have trouble letting go when they become Forsaken; eating, breathing, living a life without 8hrs sleep... you'd be suprised how many Undead still hold their breath when they go underwater, just out of reflex. Some use the "I don't want to spend hours squeezing water out of me" excuse, but we know better.

    Trivia: The no.1 cause of going mad for undead is being unable to be awake and active 24hrs a day, forever. The brain is accustomed to the idea of having a limited window of opportunity to get stuff done before the day runs out and you have to rest. For undead, there's no such thing as a "day". You keep busy, or you just sit in silence. If you want to dig a tunnel through a mountain, you just start digging. And don't stop. You just don't stop. Ever. There's no reason to.

    Lilian's back, but only because she realised that even though she was bleeding buckets in Scholomance, she could simply stitch the hole shut, get up and walk home. It's a little embarrassing. For a while she just lay there; leaking on the floor, waiting for... something. After a while, she just said "Hey, wait a minute...", picked herself up and walked out. But not before spending too much time scooping up her blood to pour back into herself. Having parts of your body full of liquid and other parts empty just messes with your balance, and it's quite annoying.
    Nope! Both theories completely nyxed.

    Sylvie showed off her tummy all these years because she's trashy, and Lillian should be dead. THE END.

    Stupid Zelling.
    Last edited by thottstation; 2019-03-29 at 09:43 PM.

  2. #2
    Brewmaster Sfidt's Avatar
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    He didn’t put his plot armor on.
    S.H.

  3. #3
    Forsaken survived being shot through the head in Edge of Night, with Garrosh specifically counting on their durability as undead. In this very expansion. Paxton is chopped in two but quite calm.

    But cinematics are written by Christie "Undead fall apart from hugs" Golden, so Zelling dies to an arrow to the chest.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  4. #4
    Don't think too hard about it.

    The writers surely didn't.

  5. #5
    Sigh, so you are saying that Sylvanis wouldn't know how to kill Forsaken?

  6. #6
    I would indeed guess that there exists some method to kill undead easily. Why godfrey knew it, is to be questioned, but Sylvanas is leader of the undead faction. Sylvanas should know a lot of stuff about undead that most of them dont know. Cosidering her personality, why wouldnt she know a way to kill, let say, a traitor easily and quickly.

    She has been betrayed once already(? I'm not sure if some newer story actually pinned that to sylvanas too and it was just a trick to get suspicions off). Why would someone like sylvanas not prepare something for such possibility?

    edit: and yes. I'd rather ignore it and count it as really bad writing.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    Don't think too hard about it.

    The writers surely didn't.
    This is the right answer to the thread.

    Unless there is a plot twist and Zelling is still "alive"

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Forsaken survived being shot through the head in Edge of Night, with Garrosh specifically counting on their durability as undead. In this very expansion. Paxton is chopped in two but quite calm.

    But cinematics are written by Christie "Undead fall apart from hugs" Golden, so Zelling dies to an arrow to the chest.
    More things that Golden managed to retroactively fuck up thanks to this "EMOTHUNAL" moment:

    Dreadlords and Legion by proxy, their necromancy is useless.
    Orc necrolytes.
    Scourge.
    Bwomsamdi.

    Sorry guys, your cannon fodder is completely useless as cannon fodder, because some dumb bitch wanted some "EMOTHUNS" in her cheap book.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmatrix View Post
    Sigh, so you are saying that Sylvanis wouldn't know how to kill Forsaken?
    Pretty much.

  10. #10
    A saronite arrow or bullet can kill them as We have seen in the case when Sylvanas killed by a noname undead, and he wanted to kill Arthas with an arrow of that kind.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Sorry guys, your cannon fodder is completely useless as cannon fodder, because some dumb bitch wanted some "EMOTHUNS" in her cheap book.
    My reading of it is that before writing the book Golden read a pop-science article on how real dead people's bodies work. Forgetting for a second she was writing fantasy and were she to take this position to its logical conclusion skeletons would all be immobile because they don't have muscles to move them.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  12. #12
    undead durability is one of the thigns subject to the writer's fancy.

    Some stories have undead being so resilient that being dismembered and reduced to a small smattering of bone parts and their own feelings... but still able to hang on... others have them making a 90-130 year old mundane mortal look like fucking ARNOLD in his prime by comparison.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    Don't think too hard about it.

    The writers surely didn't.
    This is honestly the best way to consume Blizzard storytelling. There are no carefully considered rules and there's no real consistency. They try and make it seem like there is in some of their lore tomes (though I've no idea why, since it does nothing but shoot them in the foot), but anything that happens is entirely at the whims of what the story demands at that very moment.

  14. #14
    lol, something irked me about Zelling's death and I couldn't place it, but I think this is it.

    I'm going to go with one of these answers:
    -"oops, we forgot"
    -Since it was clearly a staged event, the arrow was laced with blight that would kill undead beforehand
    -Sylvanas was mind controlling him all along or some bullshit and he faked it under her command (or some bullshit)
    -the arrow just knocked him over and everyone presumed him dead in wake of Baine's imprisonment, sucks to be a frail bag of bones

  15. #15
    I think OP is confusing classic zombies with WoW undeads.

    WoW undeads are raised by MAGIC, not by viruses or diseases. They dont need their brain, they dont need their heart. We got full skeletons without any single organ or muscle or skin talking and thinking by themselfs.

    Zelling got killed because a much more powerfull being shot him. Sylvanas got killed with a single bullet because a powerfull being shot her while she was unnaware.

  16. #16
    Gameplay-wise, there isn't any noticeable difference in durability between undead and living.
    Lore-wise... it's full of contradictions. Is there any information that is actually "more canon" than another on the subject ?

  17. #17
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondercrab View Post
    This is honestly the best way to consume Blizzard storytelling. There are no carefully considered rules and there's no real consistency. They try and make it seem like there is in some of their lore tomes (though I've no idea why, since it does nothing but shoot them in the foot), but anything that happens is entirely at the whims of what the story demands at that very moment.
    Is it just Blizzard though? Look at all the plotholes / stupid things that even George Lucas put in his Star wars prequels. And yet, people find explanations for it. Just one example.

    Why else are channels that point out "Everything wrong with...." or list plotholes so popular?

  18. #18
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    There's a game theory for the obvious fanservice design that is Sylvanas's midriff showing?

    Christ almighty, I need a break from the internet...
    If World of Warcraft has taught me anything, it's that teaching a crowd something is far harder than teaching individuals.

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord A Chozo's Avatar
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    I think it varies from undead to undead.

    Zelling and Sylvanas were both killed by projectiles (arrow and bullet), but Sylvanas had the Val'kyr with her in Silverpine. Meanwhile, there's a guy in Nazmir who's notorious for having his upper body in a place, and his legs in another. Maybe piercing the heart kills the undead?

  20. #20
    In before the storm dark rangers have killed a lot of undead in arathi. Its also safe to assume that the times sylvanas and her rangers shoot normal arrows are long gone.
    Blame it on the ingame cinematic, that uses basic animations and not some shadow/blight arrow.
    Also it was a staged event to demonstrate power. Im pretty sure sylvanas prepared whatever is needed to kill zelling beforehand.

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