Idea: Require soloqueue pug heroic 5mans ELSE they lose all M+ & raid drops / raids

[Kokolums]

M+ is cancerous and disgusting. It encourages people to not help new players and instead form exclusive raider.io / community / friends lists. The game needs a fix. Get people OUT of their exclusive communities and helping others. Helping others is KEY to a thriving MMO. So we can START with this.

Run M+ and raids all you want. HOWEVER, in order for your toon to qualify for m+ / raid drops for the week:

1. they MUST soloqueue and complete something like 5x pug heroic dungeons in dungeon finder during the previous week.
2. if the ilvl of the group exceeds a maximum, that pug heroic does not count towards the 5.
3. Cheaters are told in advance that if caught, their cap goes to 10 for the rest of the expansion. Don't even THINK about creative use of game mechanics to get around this. If you think you're gonna do it at the end of the xpac, it'll extend to the next one too.

I think this would be a START to see if we can get people to help others more. If it fails, more extreme measures will be taken.

Pretty simple. Help people. Contribute to the community. Or no gear.

Why do this? because people insist upon using that cancer raider.io, which just excludes helping low ilvl players. We need a fix to raider.io, so this is it.

[Sae]

Why should players be forced to queue for and complete content that they don't want to do?

Are queue times for random heroic dungeons that bad? Even on my DPS characters (when I run them) they're rarely more than 15-20 minutes.

[.Nensec]

Nah​​​​​​​

[Kokolums]

Why should players be forced to queue for and complete content that they don't want to do?.

Because people insist on using raider.io to exclude people constantly. So you start fixing it by removing raider.io as a qualifier. And this is how you do that. Stop trying to be efficient. Stop excluding people. HELP PEOPLE or GET OUT.

[Trend]

If you're actually curious to understand why this is a failure of a suggestion, go look through the history of this forum. In the last 12 months I bet you can find at least 500 threads created by people crying about how better players won't help them. And then the thread gets filled up with responses of why it is an absurd complaint. I promise you, nothing new will be said in this thread.

[Mikase]

Because people insist on using raider.io to exclude people constantly.

I think one important thing is to understand why Raider.io is used. To try to argue it's used to exclude people proves that you have no real understanding of it, beacuse the reason, even if it's very close, is to decide who to party up with. It's rather who to INCLUDe instead of who to EXCLUDE.

I am not sure if you set up groups before, but you will instantly get 10x or more dps queuing to you. There is a few factors like setup to think about. (Melee/ranged, pure dmg/utility) when deciding to pick level, but there is also the ilvl aspect to ensure that, mainly that the player have the possibility to have the damage output needed for that level, and the HP to survive mechanics easier, for a smoother run.
All these steps is easy to take into account by just looking at the UI.

But the most important aspect is experience.
The Mythic+ is built up in a way that makes dungeons harder and harder to make, and a step between a +4 and +10 is quite steep. First of, there is mechanics that you don't need to care about in lower level, but means that you can't kill a certain boss in higher, there is attacks that needs to be interepted in higher levels to not get killed, but can be ignore on lower level. And mostly important, there is Affixes that only show up when you are above a different level.

There is no reason to learn the +4 affixes in a +10, aswell as the +7 affixes in a +10. It's better to play and have an understanding in +4/+5 or +7/+8 on how the handle them. If you do that, it will automaticlly translate to your score.

Not only that, but it's rarely you will pick a player that hasn't done a +8/9 yet on time in the dungeons you are going to do, for a +10 or above. It shows that you have not taken your time yourself to learn yourself on how the dungeon works, and it's not time to to introduce a new affix if you don't know the basic of the dungeon yet at "higher" levels.

So, here is the deal. If you do the dungeons by going up. First doing +4/5 of all dungeons, then advanace to +8/9, then you will be extremly more likley to be picked up by a group. It's only a natural queue, you don't skip it.
Also remember: WE ALL HAVE STARTED OUT FROM A SCORE OF ZERO! It takes time to built it up, it didn't go from 0 to 1000 in one go. (Unless you have a dedicated group to do it with maybe). I've pugged my M+ runs, with mostly 1 or 2 friends. You need to have the understanding of "Hmm, I haven't done a Kings Rest yet, I better to a +8, as that will bring my score up alot compared to not done it yet". Running the +10 directly isn't needed.

I am using the term higher levels, but I am mostly talking about a scale from +1 to +10 in this case

[Xath]

M+ is cancerous and disgusting. It encourages people to not help new players and instead form exclusive raider.io / community / friends lists. The game needs a fix. Get people OUT of their exclusive communities and helping others. Helping others is KEY to a thriving MMO. So we can START with this.

Run M+ and raids all you want. HOWEVER, in order for your toon to qualify for m+ / raid drops for the week:

1. they MUST soloqueue and complete something like 5x pug heroic dungeons in dungeon finder during the previous week.
2. if the ilvl of the group exceeds a maximum, that pug heroic does not count towards the 5.
3. Cheaters are told in advance that if caught, their cap goes to 10 for the rest of the expansion. Don't even THINK about creative use of game mechanics to get around this. If you think you're gonna do it at the end of the xpac, it'll extend to the next one too.

I think this would be a START to see if we can get people to help others more. If it fails, more extreme measures will be taken.

Pretty simple. Help people. Contribute to the community. Or no gear.

Why do this? because people insist upon using that cancer raider.io, which just excludes helping low ilvl players. We need a fix to raider.io, so this is it.

Sounds like a great way to finally kill the game.

[Tradu]

Fuck off, there's already too much overrewarding easy content that we're forced into.

- - - Updated - - -

Because people insist on using raider.io to exclude people constantly. So you start fixing it by removing raider.io as a qualifier. And this is how you do that. Stop trying to be efficient. Stop excluding people. HELP PEOPLE or GET OUT.

No, I'm going to play how I want because it's my time. I don't owe random people who struggle with random heroics anything. The only people I have any sort of connection to are my guild and friends, so I'll play with them.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Expected a Posts: 3.

Quite the twist, indeed.

Horrible idea.

[Tradu]

Expected a Posts: 3.

Quite the twist, indeed.

Horrible idea.

No, unfortunately he doesn't only have 3 posts, he's been asking for dumb shit like this for years.

[taishar68]

Forcing people to do any content to open other content for any reason other than story or time gating is absurd.

Forcing people to soloqueue for heroics does nothing to help the community, aside from the absurdity. No one would be doing it due to altruism, and would likely go out if there way to be less helpful.

If someone outgears content, which in re heroics is provably a lot of people, why in anyone’s sane mind would they want to run said content solely to be a Good Samaritan?

Lastly, how can you be the arbiter of someone else’s time? If I can complete Mythic content, that might be all I have time to do; in your world, I’d have to spend 2.5 hours or more a week doing heroics which are at this point useless. How is that any better than our current situation?

[Ridcully]

This is a video game, not a job. Nobody owes you anything, everybody does content that they want to.

[Socialhealer]

Free boosts?

lol no, you want boosting, buy some wow tokens pay gold get boosts, people ain't boosting your ass for free.

[Pillerina]

Raider.io is a thing because gear became too abundant to be a decent judge of skill. If you get rid of it a new system will pop up.

[Uko]

The beatings will continue till morale improves guys!

[Clozer]

raider.io just saves me from alt tabbing and checking armory manually. Would change nothing if removed.

[Schattenlied]

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

No, OP, no, this idea is completely bad and horrible in every way.

people have been checking gear since vanilla, and achievements since they came out in Wrath, this is not a new thing, raider.io just makes the process faster and more efficient.


Not to mention no one needs help from mythic+ players in heroic 5 mans, they are easy as all hell.

[Marrilaife]

Nope. Low ilvl players should be grouped with similar players so maybe they actually learn something about this game instead of leaning on being boosted by high geared players who faceroll content for them.

Ever wondered why people fail in mythic+ and all these "elitist tools" were created to sort through them? Well because they never had to actually learn anything while doing normals, heroics or even mythic0.

In the last 12 months I bet you can find at least 500 threads created by people crying about how better players won't help them.

Because the old generation of gamers that wanted a challenge to overcome got replaced by a new generation wanting participation awards. Meritocracy got replaced by communism. Aspirations were replaced with entitlement.

Basically every thread like that is made by some wannabe Robin Hood that would take away from the rich, and give to the poor, preferably himself. Why put effort to catch a fish if I can demand from a guy that already put that effort to give me half of his.

Every thread of these 500 you mention is always the same story, "I don't have time, I don't want to invest anything, I'm an anti-social lone wolf with no friends or long lasting bonds, I quit years / months ago and came back from a break", yadda yadda bonus points for playing some low demand melee dps spec. Basically a guy who voluntarily is an anonymous nobody but wants others to treat him as some form of VIP guest with all the honours. Because he's just that good, he swears on his pinky.

[Nathasil]

I have an even better idea!!! And i know it will sound completely strange and unintuitive, but hear me out:
We could have a vendor that sells catch up-gear on par with the current raid-tier. The currency used would be some kind of points...i don't know...let's call them valor points. You would get these points for almost all endgame activities, but could get them quickest by running random HC dungeons with strangers and similar content.

On a slightly more serious note:
Giving incentives to run content with strangers/noobs is "ok"....but it will only ever work for "trash content" that does not require any coordination. Cata tried to push random groups into content that required coordination - and failed. Ultimately, while the game requires this kind of content, nobody will ever like it much. And if you want to bring solo players into more challenging content it is THEM who need to take it more seriously and socialise with a guild or community.

[Vordakai]

M+ isn't cancerous, it's just boring. The best thing we can do is shield new players from the type of people who actually get off on that type of content.