Chances the meta will be different between Classic and unnamed servers.

[Knolan]

The fug kind of shaman/priest are you leveling that requires you to sit-crit? The only benefit they gain from being crit is 6 seconds of pushback immunity.....and you shouldn't be using lots of (cast time) damage spells while leveling on either of those classes.

The ACTUAL classes that gain benefit from sit-critting are warrior and paladin. You'd know that if you actually played vanilla.


No? Feral is still high-tier leveling even without frontstabbing. The difference in kill speed between Shred and Claw is not all that much.

Yet another person that hasn't actually played vanilla and just watched videos about it, yet goes around talking like he's an expert.


Again, wrong. Proc rates are taken from old youtube videos / forum posts from people who did testing during that time. It is not "highly overpowered".

Just tested on my relatively fresh 60 (803 power, 120.4 DPS), against chillwind ravager (level 59).
Using mother of all builds, pvp variation.
Avg claw damage is 193 (4.8 per energy), shred is 319 (7.6 per energy).

So, again, yes, it is a huge damage difference, specially considering that the leveling build would have OoC procs as well.

[stigz]

dude wtf is "sit-critting"

[jackofwind]

dude wtf is "sit-critting"

When you sit you get auto-crit.

It's how paladins stack Reckoning, among other things.

[collax]

Sure and if every single warrior does that, we won't have a tank shortage on Classic - however quite a lot of undergeared Rogues and Hunters.

You're not wrong, but i doubt every single person that wants to play Warrior will follow that advice, primarily because it involves "tanking".

Well if dps warriors want to get geared, they better start to tank or pray to be lucky to find a feral druid willing to tank for them that don't care about warrior gear. Because almost no other warrior will invite you and they will have plenty of other dps to choose.

- - - Updated - - -

Dont start a Feral druid and complain "NO ONE IS INVITING ME", because again, no one gives a fuck about you personally.

Maybe the feral druid that came from the private server community with another 30 people can do that, cause he has backup and friends, random feral druid? Good luck!

Funny cause feral druid is actually viable and most guild will want one.

- - - Updated - - -

When you sit you get auto-crit.

It's how paladins stack Reckoning, among other things.

This only work on private server. According to some reckoning guide from back in vanilla, sit didn't proc reckoning or other such talent and it won't work in classic.

[Razzako]

All classes are shit if you don't gear properly.

Some classes are undeniably less gear dependent. Frost Mages for example, with shatter builds.

[jackofwind]

Well if dps warriors want to get geared, they better start to tank or pray to be lucky to find a feral druid willing to tank for them that don't care about warrior gear. Because almost no other warrior will invite you and they will have plenty of other dps to choose.

Pretty much this. DPS Warriors will be chasing the same gear as Rogues in dungeons, then they'll be rolling on some of the same gear as Rogues in raids, and that's just the way it is. Every decent melee is going to be doing the Ironfoe/HoJ farm spam and they're going to be doing it either with those items on reserve or with groups of casters.

- - - Updated - - -

This only work on private server. According to some reckoning guide from back in vanilla, sit didn't proc reckoning or other such talent and it won't work in classic.

This is hilariously incorrect. Getting auto-crit while sitting was absolutely part of the original Vanilla game. It's even how the Kazzak one-shot Reck Bomb was set up.

[collax]

This is hilariously incorrect. Getting auto-crit while sitting was absolutely part of the original Vanilla game.

Yes you get crit while sitting, no it doesn't proc thing like reckoning unless it is a yellow attack.

[jackofwind]

Some classes are undeniably less gear dependent. Frost Mages for example, with shatter builds.

Everything is relative. Specs like Deep Frost can also be super poorly itemized with the gear they do have. Mages can overload on spell hit and just waste it, for example, while Warlocks who don't gear for spell hit will do shit DPS.

Also, if you're talking about Shatter you must be talking about PvP which is a totally different story with totally different gearing requirements.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes you get crit while sitting, no it doesn't proc thing like reckoning unless it is a yellow attack.

And? I never said anything about white hits vs abilities. If you're going for auto-crits then you're spamming your /sit macro bind and you're eating crit abilities to stack Reckoning.

You use it when you're fighting a Rogue, for example, and you spam it to make his abilities auto-crit. Just like how the Paladin who Reck bombed Kazzak did it by dueling his Rogue friend and eating three daggers worth of durability of SS spam.

[collax]

And? I never said anything about white hits vs abilities. If you're going for auto-crits then you're spamming your /sit macro bind and you're eating crit abilities to stack Reckoning.

You use it when you're fighting a Rogue, for example, and you spam it to make his abilities auto-crit. Just like how the Paladin who Reck bombed Kazzak did it by dueling his Rogue friend and eating three daggers worth of durability of SS spam.

Well it can still be fine for pvp against rogue, but you won't be able to use this to level faster like they do on private server.

[Razzako]

Everything is relative. Specs like Deep Frost can also be super poorly itemized with the gear they do have. Mages can overload on spell hit and just waste it, for example, while Warlocks who don't gear for spell hit will do shit DPS.

Also, if you're talking about Shatter you must be talking about PvP which is a totally different story with totally different gearing requirements.

Relative to each other? In any case, the point still stands.

Some specs are less gear dependent than others.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

The attitude of some people here is exactly what I'm afraid of will ruin this. People trying to push meta instead of letting people experiment and discover things like it originally was.

2019 is not 2004. The gaming world and people have vastly changed in 15 years and there's no putting the demon back in the bottle.

[jackofwind]

Well it can still be fine for pvp against rogue, but you won't be able to use this to level faster like they do on private server.

Okay? That's completely besides the point and not at all what I was talking about.

- - - Updated - - -

Relative to each other? In any case, the point still stands.

Some specs are less gear dependent than others.

Sure, no one is contesting that fact. Those specs are also the ones that fall off early and don't compete with gear-dependent specs later. And you won't be performing very well in raids relative to properly raid-specced people with a Shatter spec, gear requirements or not.

[Lollis]

Also front stabbing was never a thing in vanilla it's a bug on private servers i'm pretty sure.

I never played druid in vanilla but you could certainly run in and out of the middle of mob hitboxes as a rogue and use backstab if you spammed it but it was a hell of a shitty way to play.

It was just abusing the client/server communication delay.

[anon5123]

I had a convo today with someone who said paladins have the upperhand in a 1v1 vs a rogue with all his CD's up and i literally lol'd, paladins were among the easiest targets i can recall from my days in patch 1.12.

Dwarf paladin is a counter for rogue if you're holy/reck or ret/reck or just anything prot, really. Sit-crit some reck stacks then turn around and smack him for half his health, if not more. If you've got Holy Shield it's even more 1-sided since you can just pop that and watch the rogue melt himself on your shield. Getting low on health? Stun and heal. Getting low on health again? Bubble and heal. Rogue tries to blind you and bandage or re-stealth? Stoneform out of it and keep smacking him.

I've never had issues with rogues, ever.

- - - Updated - - -

The attitude of some people here is exactly what I'm afraid of will ruin this. People trying to push meta instead of letting people experiment and discover things like it originally was.

The game is 15 years old. There is no more "experiment and discover". Pretty much every aspect of every class has been fully explored and we know what is good and what is bad. No amount of tryharding will make hybrid meme specs do good DPS.

[potis]

Funny cause feral druid is actually viable and most guild will want one.

Yeah , 1 for the crit buff, cause 1.12.

Which is why as its being repeated, WoW Classic has nothing to do with how Vanilla actually occurred.

And after a gear level, just bring another Fury Warrior/Rogue cause no one cares for the 3%.

- - - Updated - - -

Also front stabbing was never a thing in vanilla it's a bug on private servers i'm pretty sure.

Nah, it existed in the form of lag, same as Gouging from behind.

I have gouged multiple people from behind/side/inside of them but it was all always, lag on server side.

Many times because of everyone playing with averagely at best 200-250ms, and combination with servers having issues pretty much always, you would occasionally experience "Front Stabbing", because lag, same with moving inside the model of the player, it all came down to lag.

But as an actual thing, never existed, Private server bullshit indeed.

[PavelGolub]

TBH i wish the meta would change but it was perfected on Private Server now since 2007/8 so it will be so hard to change the opinion of the majority of people about shaman that is not resto or druid that comes as a tank etc.
Maybe some liberal guilds will pop up and break the ranks but most of the hardcore and semi hardcore raiders wouldn't like the change.

It was rare and its still rare for lets say shammy to be Ench or Druid to be Boomkin in a raid group so i really hope people will chill out and play what they like and be more open minded about it all.
The biggest issue over all is that you just cant get the right gear most of the times.
As ele or boomkin you probably be half clothed and use mage gear which alot of mages wouldn't like same goes lets say for Ench shammy needing Rogue gear. T1/2/3 are locked for specific specs so even if you get spot your gear upgrade curve is bad and rough.

[Thunderball]

The biggest issue over all is that you just cant get the right gear most of the times.

No. Biggest issue is that even with all the right gear it's shit. Moreover, some of these specs have a pretty good chance to actually wipe the raid.

[collax]

No. Biggest issue is that even with all the right gear it's shit. Moreover, some of these specs have a pretty good chance to actually wipe the raid.

How does a spec wipe a raid ?
Actually if these meme dps spec are doing less dps they shouldn't be able to wipe the raid by taking aggro.

[Thunderball]

How does a spec wipe a raid ?
Actually if these meme dps spec are doing less dps they shouldn't be able to wipe the raid by taking aggro.

They have shit dps not because their attacks/spells do less damage, but because they dont have threat reduction talent and/or mana issues. Imagine enh shaman going in with WF proc off AA and then off SS. No tank is going to be generate that much threat before this lands. Or a shadowpriest with VE up critting with Mind Blast (that doest 2x threat).

[sunwrathmother]

First off i fully understand that unnamed servers aren't to be discussed on this forum, but given the topic im hoping the mods can agree that it has value. These players are big reason why classic is happening, and they shouldnt be completely ignored.

The reason i bring this thread up is to prepare unnamed server players for a game, that might not be the one they remember or have experience with. Readily do i see threads or videos talking about a certain meta that wasnt how i remember it in 2006. Now this could be a fault of my memory or it could also be a consequence of poor coding/scripting on said servers.

Is there a chance classic will be so different from these servers it will feel like a different game? Will pvp meta's match up to what they know?

Most of my experience in vanilla was actually during the 1.12 patch in 2006, so if what blizzard says is true and they have the original source code i think personally i am in good hands in regards to being able to relive the game i remember, im just a bit worried unnamed server players wont have the same experience.

Some key points from an 40 year old raider:

1. THERE WAS NO CONSISTENT META IN VANILLA

I started playing in Feb 2005. I was fortunate enough to enter NAX before TBC and reach to marshal rank with my druid. Raiding for 14 years end game pve non stop. This is my view of vanilla.

- 10 major patches were released until Drums of War that changed classes and specs again and again. Loot table also changed but most of the players were too busy leveling or too distracted to pay any attention to details. Everything was new to everyone.

- Class talents were revamped EIGHT times (!!!) and countless other times spells and abilities were changed/fixed in smaller patches and updates.

- We had no real info of all the loot tables/items/specs and interractions between them.

- Allakhazam and thottbot were the only scources we had available.

- There was no youtube instructional videos, no twitch, no guides.

- Elitist Jerks forum was up, but again very few people experimented and got to a level so high in game mechanics to actually push the Meta to its limit.

- 90% of the player base were not playing their character optimally not because they were noobs, but because there wasnt enough time to settle down and learn everything there is to learn. As WoW evolved, so did the players.

- At June 20 2006 Nax was introduced into the game and at September 11, just 2 months after 1.11, TBC was announced to be released at 16 of Jan 2007! We are talking about so little time to deal with so many things with so little information sources.

- Most information was passed through guild chat and trade chat in game. Raid leaders were not gonna change their roaster easily, especially when the existing one already works. No one will trust a feral main tank or dps for example in a 40 man raid when there is no epic gear for feral tank specs or feral cat specs around. Epic is purple and it shines brighter than gold! Dire bear form originally had 125% armor bonus not 360%!

So the mentality of the player base had no time to change, no time to adjust to all the patches and changes that were introduced at such a high speed. Most of us were too focused to enjoy and prepare for the NEW shiny WoW waiting just around the corner with new areas to explore!

Now more than 10 years have passed with unnamed servers testing different things, new builds, different gear setups and new strategies.

While not all things are 100% accurate on those servers, they are considered very close to the original game.

So keep in mind that what you guys remember from 2006 is not always correct.

Those people that believe they know everything from the original game they played since they were teenagers, are in for some nasty
surprises!

I personally expect the unnamed server meta to be pretty close to classic for all these reasons I mentioned above.