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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Yeah they got the knowledge prior to the arrival of the legion, while those that were in the capital were tutored by demons, who were very much ahead in magic until they decided to rebel because they couldn't bear the shit they Queen was pulling.


    Tutoring? That is a stretch, they were helping them make portals big enough for Sargeras to enter the world, not the finer techniques of magical theory and combat.

    Those same demon affiliating elves were whooped by their resistance counterparts.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Tutoring? That is a stretch, they were helping them make portals big enough for Sargeras to enter the world, not the finer techniques of magical theory and combat.

    Those same demon affiliating elves were whooped by their resistance counterparts.
    The demons were still thousands of years ahead and they did teach the highborne some stuff, yes the demons were beaten but it doesn't change the fact that they were tens of thousands of years ahead of the highborne in the magical department.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post


    No because there is nothing that really gives them the edge to be honest, they had a lot of potential until they decided to butcher almost the entire population at this moment they strated their decline and it was sealed with the horde kicking their teeth in.
    That doesn't mean they arent extremely talented or powerful. We already have confirmation that they were incredible. Your race or city in decline doesn't mean you as an individual are any less knowledgeable, powerful or great as you have ever been.

    We are not talking about the civilization of Eldre'thalas but about powerful non human mages. Also do not forget I am expressing a desire to see more of him and his group in action.

    It's funny you don't see me going on about all the ways I think Rommath is a crap mage and how there is nothing that really gives him the edge, or any other blood elf mage for that matter. Why? Because I am not biased against them nor do I keep trying to show or point out how unremarkable and untalented or unimpressive they might be now after the scourge ruined most of what they did in the last 7,000 years, and the lack of Jaina type level of activity from any of them is somehow proof that they really arent anything remarkable.

    Why again? Cos I'm not biased against them in favour of my favourite, so it doesn't occur to me

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The demons were still thousands of years ahead and they did teach the highborne some stuff, yes the demons were beaten but it doesn't change the fact that they were tens of thousands of years ahead of the highborne in the magical department.
    They helped them build bigger portals, and they needed the expertise and knowledge of the elves just as much. The book even covers that, otherwise the demons would have just taken over building the portals themselves.

    Ut was a joint effort and they needed the elves. The elves are portrayed as quite exceptional with magic, and they were no noobs to the demons either. The legion would not have been able to get a first invasion if the Queen hadn't let them in. I so sometimes wonder how it would have been if all the night elves were United as one against the demons.

    Let us not forget, they beat them with their chief asset and greatest leader playing for the opposite side

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    That doesn't mean they arent extremely talented or powerful. We already have confirmation that they were incredible. Your race or city in decline doesn't mean you as an individual are any less knowledgeable, powerful or great as you have ever been.
    That is the thing we don't have confirmation that they were super awesome sauce over the eons, quite the opposite with screwing themselves over reduncing their number to a handful and later being handily beaten by a horde expedition being driven from their libraries and all they achieved while going cold turkey from demonic energies.

    We are not talking about the civilization of Eldre'thalas but about powerful non human mages. Also do not forget I am expressing a desire to see more of him and his group in action.
    And we did they were active during the war of the thorns yet ultimately couldn't turn the tide.

    It's funny you don't see me going on about all the ways I think Rommath is a crap mage and how there is nothing that really gives him the edge, or any other blood elf mage for that matter. Why? Because I am not biased against them nor do I keep trying to show or point out how unremarkable and untalented or unimpressive they might be now after the scourge ruined most of what they did in the last 7,000 years, and the lack of Jaina type level of activity from any of them is somehow proof that they really arent anything remarkable.
    I expect Rommath to be a decent archmage but I do not expect him to be super awesome sauce, because the most gifted elf mages died during the third war due to treachery, you desperately want to put the shen'dralar on a pedestal for no other reason for them being associated with the night elves, because you want that they go back to being a mighty arcane culture, despite the fact that night elves to this day despise the arcane and barely tolerate the highborne that returned and even shun the ones that took the opportunity to learn from the highborne.

    Why again? Cos I'm not biased against them in favour of my favourite, so it doesn't occur to me
    You try to paint the shen'dralar as something they simply aren't, being super awesome mages with all the answers,but the lore makes it very clear they are not. Yet you desperately cling to that group and to an extend the moonguard to get the night elves into the arcane niche once again a place that is utterly despised by their mainstream culture. Simply because you do not like the fact that night elves never will again embrace the arcane in a big way, that is what their offshoots the nightborne, blood elves and Naga are for, the continuation of arcane culture.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2019-03-30 at 03:42 AM.

  5. #45
    The Lightbringer therealstegblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Mama View Post
    She's becoming (an ugly) Mary Sue.
    Mary Sues aren't "powerful characters" that don't necessarily deserve their power, Mary Sues are characters that meet a loose criteria of symptoms that make them a bad character in general. Usually the center piece being that they're asserted (through dialogue and narrative) as being perfect, despite clearly not being perfect.

    Talanji is leaning a bit into the "I'm perfect" territory via being right about everything and being about as morally complex as a rock, but I don't think she's much of a Mary Sue. At worst I think she's a bit of a bland character who hasn't been utilized well, as we haven't seen her face any real adversity other than steamrolling through minor threats/bad guys and one little scene where she goes FADDA NO... UR DEAD... :,(

    We'll see how she's handled now that she's queen of the Zandalari, but chances are we won't see a whole much more of her before BFA ends and she's never ever heard of again.

    Her worst offense is being shallow, but not so much she's Anduin levels of Mary Sue.
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  6. #46
    Humans are the only ones with enough

    Potential
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  7. #47
    Wowpedia has a list of notable mages. It is indeed dominated by humans, but brings attention to a number of elves (Kael'thas, Rommath, Thalyssra, etc.) as well. Not much else, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by therealstegblob View Post
    Mary Sues aren't "powerful characters" that don't necessarily deserve their power, Mary Sues are characters that meet a loose criteria of symptoms that make them a bad character in general. Usually the center piece being that they're asserted (through dialogue and narrative) as being perfect, despite clearly not being perfect.
    This is not a center piece of what makes a Mary Sue.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    Wowpedia has a list of notable mages. It is indeed dominated by humans, but brings attention to a number of elves (Kael'thas, Rommath, Thalyssra, etc.) as well. Not much else, however.

    This is not a center piece of what makes a Mary Sue.
    There are other mages that are named, but that doenst mean they actually do anything unfortunately. Draenei are apparently super mages but you'd never know by looking at them or their history. You just know because you're told they are, though there's none of note apparently, nor do you ever see any. Same with, say, Gnomes.

    Blizzard is notoriously bad at giving races outside of humans and orcs attention.
    Last edited by Toppy; 2019-03-30 at 04:03 AM.
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  9. #49
    The Lightbringer therealstegblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    This is not a center piece of what makes a Mary Sue.
    I'm sorry if it bothers you, but yes, generally it is.

    Or are you a galaxy brainer who thinks "Mary Sue = Self Insert"?
    i am not the real stegblob. My blog where I review books and crap.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmbushIntheDark View Post
    I'm just sayin, we know the Sunwell can bring people back to life (Kel Thuzad) when you have their remains. And I'm just sayin, some dude has Kael's head (Or If youre on any of my characters then I do because I never turned the quest in because I liked the idea of keeping it). They realized they did Illidan dirty and brought him back and they did Kael WAAAY worse (Seriously I could go on for hours about how much Blizzard ruined Kael in BC).

    We're just a quick Sunwell Swirly and bing bang boom one of the best characters Blizzard ever wrote is back in action and since we got a Holy-Sunwell now Kael is cured from his addiction and fel.
    Lightforged Kael mmmm I like it already.

  11. #51
    Cho'gall, though he started mixing different types of magic over time. That, and the fact that he's dead.

  12. #52
    Herald of the Titans Tenebra's Avatar
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    Magister Umbric? One of the most brilliant magisters of the Sin'dorei, who became one of the first to defy the shadows' whispers. Supposedly he is also very old, since he remembers the barbarism of the Zandalari during the Troll Wars that started more than 4.000 years ago.

    What's the problem with the Ren'dorei showing more capacity in the Arcane than the Sin'dorei? The Ren'dorei were Sin'dorei, and all of them were either mages or warlocks before joining Umbric, so they were part of the magisterial elite of Sin'dorei society. Basically, they weren't simple warriors or farstriders. It makes sense that the Ren'dorei equal if not surpass the Sin'dorei's mastery of the Arcane.
    "Remember, control demands sacrifice. Power never comes without a price. You risk losing those closest to you in order to save them. This is the bargain we have made."

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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post

    You try to paint the shen'dralar as something they simply aren't, being super awesome mages with all the answers,but the lore makes it very clear they are not. Yet you desperately cling to that group and to an extend the moonguard to get the night elves into the arcane niche once again a place that is utterly despised by their mainstream culture. Simply because you do not like the fact that night elves never will again embrace the arcane in a big way, that is what their offshoots the nightborne, blood elves and Naga are for, the continuation of arcane culture.
    And you make assertions and draw conclusions about them that aren't factual, as if to say that there is no possibility any of these mages are anything or could be anything - because their city fell to ruin. This is what you use as some sort of evidence that they aren't good mages.. or "aren't as good as i think"

    You are trying to qualify a relative term and an opinion, using a facts that aren't there. The shen'dralar being kickd out of their city doens't mean their terirble mages or don't have potential. So if a person says they'd lieke tos ee their fullpotential shown, that is not invalid nor is it incorrect.

    The lore does put them as most revered arcanists, of Queen who led an empire based on wonder works - them being the city that processed and developed the greatest initiatives that came out of the greatest civilization. Even if their city has fallen to ruin and they were driven out, this already shows they are something.

    If blizzard hasn't shown them do much, it is not to say they can't. But you keep using their been driven out as some sort of proof they cna't be anything in a creative project you know can not only change at any moment, but where a lot of detail isn't released.

    I expect Rommath to be a decent archmage but I do not expect him to be super awesome sauce, because the most gifted elf mages died during the third war due to treachery, you desperately want to put the shen'dralar on a pedestal for no other reason for them being associated with the night elves, because you want that they go back to being a mighty arcane culture, despite the fact that night elves to this day despise the arcane and barely tolerate the highborne that returned and even shun the ones that took the opportunity to learn from the highborne.
    I think you're just saying the things you are saying because you don't like that I think the shen'dralar are super awesome sauce. That's it, you see me come on and say things that you feel are over stated, and you use any scrap of knowledge that might paint another picture as some sort of trump card that proves my imagination is wrong.

    You are trying to squash someone elses imagination, not even fact here. You inflate in your mind what you think I feel in the first place, then despise it for being so... "over excited" -- probably because a part of you just hates those type of fans that as soon as they see something good, they get all over excited and start talking about it as if it is the best thing in the world, and you then make it your mission to bring them down to reality. Because rational thought and great logic has no place for such juvenile over-exciteable rubbish.

    You don't have to. You're exaggerating the deficiency of the shen'dralar when you have no real evidence. As I said, been driven out of your city that has been in decline is not sure proof that you are terrible now, but were once great. You don't have enough information for that.

    You may be right, if that is the direction the developers want to go with the Shen'dralar, but you may be wrong also. Such a direction is at odds with what they have set them up to be. They've already set them up as brilliant, skilled and powerful. They have given reasons for their societies decline, but at the same time given us lore that shows these people have continued their level of research for 10,000 years.

    The way I look at them, is that they have incredible knowledge and know how, and the things they are fully capable off have not been shown yet. Their story tells me they do not have the power source (like a well) to do most of the things they can, and perhaps the number of trained mages they do to build the level of society they once had. Their ability in combat has not been shown yet either. When we storm dire maul, we do not fight or kill the zealots, the assignment is against a demonised Totheldrin, nor do we actually see them do anything in the Cata remake but train new mages, which at least we know they do with phenomenal success, because in a few weeks novices are able to use their new powers well enough on a battlefield that has their race advancing in the Azshara zone until the horde hero comes and undermines them using their amateur knowledge against them. Yet you are happy to believe the people who built that city and were at the cutting edge of the magical innovation that propelled the kaldorei empire are nothing special, because "Ravenmoon" is excited about them and keeps going on about them.

    Why do you think I call bias? If mainly horde mages get the benefit of the doubt with you and you always play devils advoaate with alliance mages..or at least night elven ones.. it says something

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Void Fallen View Post

    What's the problem with the Ren'dorei showing more capacity in the Arcane than the Sin'dorei?
    Horde fans, simple. Everyone but horde alligned folk are rubbish or second grade.

    And they will come on and point out every possibility from established knowledge that they are not anything special, but in particular not as special as the alliance race fan is saying. They will pass their possibilities as some sort of fact, while simultaenously ignoring the other persons possibilities and opinions.

    They do this very well on this forum in particular. but such is the nature of fandom. And our horde, inparticular blood elf fans here are very jealous of anything that might be competittve with the sin'dorei because they're not on thier faciton.

    The night elven arcana is always downplayed by them, when I post about it, even pointing out what hte lore shows or what the game has shown, you see people responding basically saying "it's not that great" - what they're really saying is "we don't like you alliance scum, so we will say anything to make what you point seem as ordinary and irrelevant." One of the posters friendly immolaton, after i pointed out how awesome i felt the moonguard were damagin and destroying far more of the nightwell infused nightborne than they them, and this was a demonstration of how incredibly powerful and combat savvy these night elves were. You know what he responded? They were nearly wiped out by the nightborne (like i didn't just say that) therefore aren't that great -

    Look at combatbulter, I point out how I'd lvoe to see more of the Mordant Evenshade and the shen'dralar like Nymrohd mentioned he'd like to see of rommath and Aethas, then went on to tsate how i thought Farondis and the Monguard were very powerfully portrayed and I liked that. And you can read his responses. - The shen'dralar were powerful once, but they aren't anymore, and his evdience? They were driven out of their city, so they can't be anything speical - completely ignoring everything else that idnicates they are remarkable, and using the event as some evidence that they are not talented or incredible mages right now because we haven't seen them do anything in game.. depsite me saying that i want to see them do more things in game.

    It's just a lot of bias. If its an alliance rival elf mage that's either night elven, void elf or high elf - regardless of whether the lore shows or describes them having something special that could be incredible, you will get the horde fan boys telling you they are not. Unless it is super obvious like super Saiyan Jaina and khadgar, in which case their tone will switch to "I hate this super Saiyan portrayal, it's just terrible" - wanna bet its mostly terrible because its an alliance race character. And that is the one fundamental flaw of the character, that no matter what they do or blizzard writes them to do, they will never like.

  14. #54
    Bloodsail Admiral rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Source, should be fun, because there is nothing in the lore that supports this statement in any way.
    let me just say this first, what i said may have been retconned with chronicle, but in the past (certainly from the cataclysm game era) it was stated in the story that human spell casters were the most powerful of all the races on azeroth due to the great 'potential of humanity' the guardian of tirisfal being the best example of this, furthermore it was purely due to rhonin's presence that malgos and the azure flight didn't attack dalaran during the nexus war out of fear, they knew how powerful he was and could easily rival the might of any of the blue dragons save malygos himself, hence why he was given the title of the most powerful mortal mage on azeroth.

    retired march 2013 RIP - returned january 2016, purely because paladins finally get Ashbringer!

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Void Fallen View Post
    Magister Umbric? One of the most brilliant magisters of the Sin'dorei, who became one of the first to defy the shadows' whispers. Supposedly he is also very old, since he remembers the barbarism of the Zandalari during the Troll Wars that started more than 4.000 years ago.

    What's the problem with the Ren'dorei showing more capacity in the Arcane than the Sin'dorei? The Ren'dorei were Sin'dorei, and all of them were either mages or warlocks before joining Umbric, so they were part of the magisterial elite of Sin'dorei society. Basically, they weren't simple warriors or farstriders. It makes sense that the Ren'dorei equal if not surpass the Sin'dorei's mastery of the Arcane.
    Umbric needed to be bailed out, was shown to be no better than other mages, relied on others research (and still failed), and thus far has shown to be a skilled Voidmancer, not mage.

    That is why. We've no examples of them being particularly grand at magecraft over others, if anything they've shown themselves to be poor examples given their failure to work on their own in that respect.
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  16. #56
    Herald of the Titans Tenebra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Umbric needed to be bailed out, was shown to be no better than other mages, relied on others research (and still failed), and thus far has shown to be a skilled Voidmancer, not mage.

    That is why. We've no examples of them being particularly grand at magecraft over others, if anything they've shown themselves to be poor examples given their failure to work on their own in that respect.
    Umbric and his people were the only ones to discover the secrets that Dar'khan elaborated in his work, and they were the first mortals to find the location of Telogrus Rift. Umbric's arrogance doesn't mean that he wasn't a good mage, otherwise there are no good mages, since every mage is arrogant and proud.

    Umbric is a Magister who remembers the Zandalari barbarism during the Troll Wars, clearly we are not talking about some random Sin'dorei arcanist, but one of the Magisters and a veteran of a conflict that ended more than 2.000 years ago. Umbric doesn't need any feat to prove that he is a good mage because his backstory already estabilishes that. You don't become a Magister if you are not brilliant in the Arcane.

    And of course the Void Elves had to rely on the legacy of someone else to make their own advancements. Do you think that the Sin'dorei themselves sustained themselves in The Burning Crusade on their own? Of course they didn't, they had to rely on Illidan to find ways to sate their addiction.
    "Remember, control demands sacrifice. Power never comes without a price. You risk losing those closest to you in order to save them. This is the bargain we have made."

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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post


    Horde fans, simple. Everyone but horde alligned folk are rubbish or second grade.

    And they will come on and point out every possibility from established knowledge that they are not anything special, but in particular not as special as the alliance race fan is saying. They will pass their possibilities as some sort of fact, while simultaenously ignoring the other persons possibilities and opinions.

    They do this very well on this forum in particular. but such is the nature of fandom. And our horde, inparticular blood elf fans here are very jealous of anything that might be competittve with the sin'dorei because they're not on thier faciton.

    The night elven arcana is always downplayed by them, when I post about it, even pointing out what hte lore shows or what the game has shown, you see people responding basically saying "it's not that great" - what they're really saying is "we don't like you alliance scum, so we will say anything to make what you point seem as ordinary and irrelevant." One of the posters friendly immolaton, after i pointed out how awesome i felt the moonguard were damagin and destroying far more of the nightwell infused nightborne than they them, and this was a demonstration of how incredibly powerful and combat savvy these night elves were. You know what he responded? They were nearly wiped out by the nightborne (like i didn't just say that) therefore aren't that great -

    Look at combatbulter, I point out how I'd lvoe to see more of the Mordant Evenshade and the shen'dralar like Nymrohd mentioned he'd like to see of rommath and Aethas, then went on to tsate how i thought Farondis and the Monguard were very powerfully portrayed and I liked that. And you can read his responses. - The shen'dralar were powerful once, but they aren't anymore, and his evdience? They were driven out of their city, so they can't be anything speical - completely ignoring everything else that idnicates they are remarkable, and using the event as some evidence that they are not talented or incredible mages right now because we haven't seen them do anything in game.. depsite me saying that i want to see them do more things in game.

    It's just a lot of bias. If its an alliance rival elf mage that's either night elven, void elf or high elf - regardless of whether the lore shows or describes them having something special that could be incredible, you will get the horde fan boys telling you they are not. Unless it is super obvious like super Saiyan Jaina and khadgar, in which case their tone will switch to "I hate this super Saiyan portrayal, it's just terrible" - wanna bet its mostly terrible because its an alliance race character. And that is the one fundamental flaw of the character, that no matter what they do or blizzard writes them to do, they will never like.
    Counterpoint:
    When has the Night Elven magecraft been shown to be special? Horde fans are right in that lore states Blood Elven is superior if only because the highborne remained stagnant for centuries.

    When has the Void Elf mageraft been shown to be anything special? They are very good at Void, I dont doubt that. But using the void is not being a mage in the same way that using fel isnt being a mage either.

    Blizzard has made it rather clear that as far as magecraft is concerned there are two primary races that, as a whole, are damned good at it: Draenei, and Blood Elves. Neither of them have any particularly skilled individuals: The alliance has all of those.

    But the argument that Horde denies Alliance mages? That's just whining and looking for something to complain about. They point out that night elves and void elves are nothing special in the regard because its true. If you want to blame anyone, blame blizzard for not putting more focus on the Draenei, rather than their off hand remark that they're skilled mages but no real show of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Void Fallen View Post
    Umbric and his people were the only ones to discover the secrets that Dar'khan elaborated in his work, and they were the first mortals to find the location of Telogrus Rift. Umbric's arrogance doesn't mean that he wasn't a good mage, otherwise there are no good mages, since every mage is arrogant and proud.

    Umbric is a Magister who remembers the Zandalari barbarism during the Troll Wars, clearly we are not talking about some random Sin'dorei arcanist, but one of the Magisters and a veteran of a conflict that ended more than 2.000 years ago. Umbric doesn't need any feat to prove that he is a good mage because his backstory already estabilishes that. You don't become a Magister if you are not brilliant in the Arcane.

    And of course the Void Elves had to rely on the legacy of someone else to make their own advancements. Do you think that the Sin'dorei themselves sustained themselves in The Burning Crusade on their own? Of course they didn't, they had to rely on Illidan to find ways to sate their addiction.
    First, again you're just pointing out skills at the Void.

    Second, age does not mean skill. If it did then the Draenei, Night Elves, Shal'dorei, etc... would all be far more skilled. Your argument is an argument for, say, humans, or orcs, or gnomes, to be entirely irrelevant.

    Third, while you are true in that and I dont doubt it, its again showing a skill in the void, not arcane. A Voidmancer =/= A mage. Its two different schools of magic.
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  18. #58
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Well Thalyssra is completely useless, she couldn't even hold a candle to Jaina when we were confronted with her in Stormwind. Which suggests to me that the Nightborne's magic must have stagnated over 10,000 years of isolation.

    The Horde's only hope for a decent mage lies with Rommath. But Blizzard won't let him do anything for fear it'd take spotlight away from their precious Jaina.

  19. #59
    Herald of the Titans Tenebra's Avatar
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    First, again you're just pointing out skills at the Void.
    But all of them are mages and warlocks, one of them is even a Magister, so clearly they aren't good only at the Void but also in the Arcane, otherwise they wouldn't be mages. Their name is literally "Void mages".
    Second, age does not mean skill. If it did then the Draenei, Night Elves, Shal'dorei, etc... would all be far more skilled. Your argument is an argument for, say, humans, or orcs, or gnomes, to be entirely irrelevant.
    Which is how things should be, because don't tell me that an orc who started studying the Arcane last year should outclass a Ren'dorei or Shal'dorei who has been studying the Arcane for literal centuries, if not thousands of years. Why do you think that many people hate how Jaina outclassed Thalyssra?
    Third, while you are true in that and I dont doubt it, its again showing a skill in the void, not arcane. A Voidmancer =/= A mage. Its two different schools of magic.
    They were all mages and warlocks before transforming into Ren'dorei. During the recruitment scenario, there aren't warriors or rangers in Umbric's group (they came later), only spellcasters. In light of this, and knowing that the Ren'dorei were still Sin'dorei not long ago, why should the Sin'dorei have better spellcasters than the Ren'dorei?
    "Remember, control demands sacrifice. Power never comes without a price. You risk losing those closest to you in order to save them. This is the bargain we have made."

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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Void Fallen View Post
    But all of them are mages and warlocks, one of them is even a Magister, so clearly they aren't good only at the Void but also in the Arcane, otherwise they wouldn't be mages. Their name is literally "Void mages".


    Which is how things should be, because don't tell me that an orc who started studying the Arcane last year should outclass a Ren'dorei or Shal'dorei who has been studying the Arcane for literal centuries, if not thousands of years. Why do you think that many people hate how Jaina outclassed Thalyssra?

    They were all mages and warlocks before transforming into Ren'dorei. During the recruitment scenario, there aren't warriors or rangers in Umbric's group (they came later), only spellcasters. In light of this, and knowing that the Ren'dorei were still Sin'dorei not long ago, why should the Sin'dorei have better spellcasters than the Ren'dorei?
    There are loads of magisters. Any time you get a blood elf anything theres a magister there. You are trying to point out their superiority, all you've pointed out so far is there averageness.

    And yes, the story is dumb in that age means absolutely nothing as far as skill goes. Humans tend to be best at anything they try their hand at for instance, which is stupid. But that's how it is. We're arguing lore, not what we want the lore to be.

    As to why the Blood Elves would be known more for it? The Void Elves were exiled, their focus is on Void, they are far lesser in number, they need bailing out, they have not shown to be anything special in regards to arcane, and the Sin'dorei have more mages of note while Void Elves at most have one with a widely used title.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

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