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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by darklogrus View Post
    Gotta make the stat sheets look good I suppose "Hey boss, look how popular these WQ were, everyone continues to do them. Who cares if we just rehashed leveling quests, These idiots dont have a clue!"
    Yep. It's sad that Blizzard have adopted this mantra of "oh if people are doing it then it's obviously good content"

    No. People are doing it because there's a carrot on the stick.

  2. #102
    Banned Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    But they aren't the same thing. Allied races are races, but they are not a replacement nor an equivalent to the fully fleshed out races we got in past expansions. They are cheaper, easier, reskins, and rerigs.

    You got races on day one, but you never got an Allied Race on day one because they're a new and cheaper feature. You're also ignoring the fact we've been able to get so many in such a short amount of time, something they've never been able to do before. Purchasing BfA gave you 8 unlockable cheap races for the same price as two fully unique ones available on day one. I think they can be released better, but acting like players are getting robbed when they're actually getting more is silly. It makes more sense to say it's a quantity > quality thing with ARs, than to ignore that they're experimental and pretend you're never going to see normal race implementation again.

    Actually while everyone is complaining about unlocking ARs, we're forgetting how much customization they've added on top of them. 8 new skins, transmog for all of them, mounts for all of them, heritage armor for all the main races coming, new options for current races, race-based armor for warfronts, and they're STILL hinting for more to come. That is more race/character related customization in one expansion for the same price than any expansion they've ever had. I don't see how we're victims to anything other than scheduling.
    You're wasting perfectly sound reasoning and level headed logic based on facts on a poster that'll ignore it to keep screeching his anti-WoW tune. Nobody plays this game because they enjoy it, all features are cynical, woe is us, hail X other game yada yada.

    That being said, you made me feel less salty about the races I'm holding off on getting due to the requirements (Alliance-side). I'll get them someday, but moving forward I hope they'll give us regular races with Allied races being a one off or not at all, only when it makes sense. Yes, people wanting to play the game will have them in due time either way, but it makes coming back after a break feel sour I'd imagine (since it applies to me as well).

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    No. People are doing it because there's a carrot on the stick.
    Definition of todays gaming. Not saying my opinion on it, but it sells, really. New gamers likes short-term rewards. Do this and you'll get this. It won't change before people change.

    It's typical of players from the WoW-generation that we want to play the game as it used to be, but that won't appeal to new younger players.

    And I have written this before, I believe this is a dilemma Blizzard struggle with when it comes to WoW. Is it best to make the game for the loyal fanbase, or do they want to appeal more to new players.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2019-03-30 at 02:24 AM.
    Zandalari music for BfA. Pure GOLD!

    Tortollan or Clash of Clans will kill WoW.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Definition of todays gaming. Not saying my opinion on it, but it sells, really. New gamers likes short-term rewards. Do this and you'll get this. It won't change before people change.

    It's typical of players from the WoW-generation that we want to play the game as it used to be, but that won't appeal to new younger players.
    Pisses me off to no end.

    Rift did it with Conquest where they put strong/decent rewards behind it and then claimed "IT'S GOOD CONTENT CUZ PEOPLE DO IT". No shit people do content that has good rewards.....

    Honestly ActiBlizz are just slowly digging this games grave. Because ironically even this whole timegating crap isn't working.

  5. #105
    Banned Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Definition of todays gaming. Not saying my opinion on it, but it sells, really. New gamers likes short-term rewards. Do this and you'll get this. It won't change before people change.

    It's typical of players from the WoW-generation that we want to play the game as it used to be, but that won't appeal to new younger players.

    And I have written this before, I believe this is a dilemma Blizzard struggle with when it comes to WoW. Is it best to make the game for the loyal fanbase, or do they want to appeal more to new players.
    I think you'll find that no matter what the time, players played games for rewards.

    What's that thing people love to say in relation to Classic WoW? "Rewards felt like they MEANT something!"... When you're new, even seeing a new area for the first time or getting 1 gold can feel like a huge reward. But they're still rewards, and people remember them as something magical through design.
    Blizzard's already done a magical feat in allegedly creating the game for new players, yet they never attract new players which must mean only old, loyal fans are with it still... how does it compute, exactly?

    I'm not currently playing outside of raiding (which I do for fun first, gear is a tool) because I don't have fun and the rewards don't appeal to me. No amount of shinies could make me play a game I didn't enjoy. Not even this one. Am willing to bet that as long as one's free of ex partner syndrome-tendencies, that's the general approach. Most people won't spend free time doing shit they don't enjoy. If they can sit down to play a game, then they're likely choosing the one they enjoy first.

    And belittling their experience by saying "you only do it because you're baited by a carrot on a stick!!", is rather arrogant. I might not agree with the people enjoying current content, but I enjoyed the game during times when others told me I shouldn't so... I won't join that group of nay-sayers!
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2019-03-30 at 02:39 AM.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Pisses me off to no end.

    Rift did it with Conquest where they put strong/decent rewards behind it and then claimed "IT'S GOOD CONTENT CUZ PEOPLE DO IT". No shit people do content that has good rewards.....

    Honestly ActiBlizz are just slowly digging this games grave. Because ironically even this whole timegating crap isn't working.
    Yeah, I did edit my post a bit about Blizzard seems uncertain on who they want to make WoW for. Classic is for us oldtimers, not me personally, but generally because they know that will work. But for retail it seems they struggle with who they are making content for, or rather how to make WoW evolve.

    Another topic perhaps, but that's my take on it. I might not agree with you about allied races spesifically I love them, and don't mind how to get them, but I can see your point of view.
    Zandalari music for BfA. Pure GOLD!

    Tortollan or Clash of Clans will kill WoW.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Yeah, I did edit my post a bit about Blizzard seems uncertain on who they want to make WoW for. Classic is for us oldtimers, not me personally, but generally because they know that will work. But for retail it seems they struggle with who they are making content for, or rather how to make WoW evolve.

    Another topic perhaps, but that's my take on it. I might not agree with you about allied races spesifically I love them, and don't mind how to get them, but I can see your point of view.
    Thank you. If you enjoy them then that's fine but at least you're willing to see others point of view rather than stick your fingers in your ears.

    I respect that. I just don't think the idea was executed well and in the end was made more a profit metric.

    I'm just tired of giving ActiBlizz the benefit of the doubt anymore. Because for me this expansion has proven they don't deserve it.

  8. #108
    Bloodsail Admiral Rozz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    "Oh but there's more than ever"

    Doesn't stop them making them available on day 1 and adding them to the character creation screen over time.

    Stop excusing this blatant cashgrab of a system. Thanks.

    There is absolutely no reason for these races to be timegated. Again core features being timegated because they can't think of actual new content that's good.
    I'm not excusing anything, because I think the system is flawed but I'm not going to sit here and ask why ARs-- which they blatantly said aren't like normal races-- aren't treated like normal races. People are going to race change whether it's Allied or not, because it's new. Leveling sucks and people are lazy. The transmog actually acts as an incentive to not spend additional money and further rewards people willing to level normally. They also start at lvl 20 and you only have to get to 110 instead of the new max for additional expansions. They also gave potions and other items to make it faster again. It's far from a blatant cash grab, considering you have free alternatives and more incentive to take them. Also the fact that Blizz makes less money keeping them rep gated than if they weren't.

    You'd think you would be glad they didn't release these cheap ass races to the masses without any requirement at all. That'd be a blatant cashgrab, because they'd be releasing mass produced crap to make as much money as possible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    You're wasting perfectly sound reasoning and level headed logic based on facts on a poster that'll ignore it to keep screeching his anti-WoW tune. Nobody plays this game because they enjoy it, all features are cynical, woe is us, hail X other game yada yada.

    That being said, you made me feel less salty about the races I'm holding off on getting due to the requirements (Alliance-side). I'll get them someday, but moving forward I hope they'll give us regular races with Allied races being a one off or not at all, only when it makes sense. Yes, people wanting to play the game will have them in due time either way, but it makes coming back after a break feel sour I'd imagine (since it applies to me as well).
    I can understand feeling cynical, but I feel like the anger is misdirected. And I'm with you on the Alliance ARs, I still have to level that character to max and do the grind all over again. I'll likely just do it when flying hits so it'll be faster and more enjoyable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    "The fact that game was rigged from the start was also rigged from the start".
    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Let's say, for example, that you're an intellectual. You begin gaming and are now surrounded by crass, anti-intellectual gamers.

  9. #109
    Hate to be that guy but the hint was in the name allied races they aren't labeled the same as normal races for peep sakes man!
    Last edited by Lurker1; 2019-03-30 at 03:31 AM.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    I think you'll find that no matter what the time, players played games for rewards.

    What's that thing people love to say in relation to Classic WoW? "Rewards felt like they MEANT something!"... When you're new, even seeing a new area for the first time or getting 1 gold can feel like a huge reward. But they're still rewards, and people remember them as something magical through design.
    Blizzard's already done a magical feat in allegedly creating the game for new players, yet they never attract new players which must mean only old, loyal fans are with it still... how does it compute, exactly?

    I'm not currently playing outside of raiding (which I do for fun first, gear is a tool) because I don't have fun and the rewards don't appeal to me. No amount of shinies could make me play a game I didn't enjoy. Not even this one. Am willing to bet that as long as one's free of ex partner syndrome-tendencies, that's the general approach.
    Yeah, was more about shorts time rewards, like you said about Classic, it meant something since it took time then, as an example. Lets compare that to making a Nightborne, do a quest, and choose to pay for it. Not saying it's the correct way of doing it or not, but fast rewards and the option to pay for it is what making mobile games so popular for instance.

    And yes, they seem to fail on attracting to new people, but loyal fans still plays. I don't think new players have huge impact on subs, but who can really know. Not saying WoW is doing good or bad, I don't care, WoW is still something I enjoy a lot. But that's the point, are they desperate to keep old players, or get new. Changes have come naturally too of course. I don't see WoW as either shit or a cashgrab, but I can see why people think differently than me
    Zandalari music for BfA. Pure GOLD!

    Tortollan or Clash of Clans will kill WoW.

  11. #111
    Imagine sucking so much at the game that the rep is the problem lol

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Dormie View Post
    Imagine sucking so much at the game that the rep is the problem lol
    Hey, not everyone thinks World Quests are easy. Remember the outrage for the Addon that got broken? People got upset! Solo WQs? How do we do that?? Halp?
    Zandalari music for BfA. Pure GOLD!

    Tortollan or Clash of Clans will kill WoW.

  13. #113
    Banned Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Yeah, was more about shorts time rewards, like you said about Classic, it meant something since it took time then, as an example. Lets compare that to making a Nightborne, do a quest, and choose to pay for it. Not saying it's the correct way of doing it or not, but fast rewards and the option to pay for it is what making mobile games so popular for instance.

    And yes, they seem to fail on attracting to new people, but loyal fans still plays. I don't think new players have huge impact on subs, but who can really know. Not saying WoW is doing good or bad, I don't care, WoW is still something I enjoy a lot. But that's the point, are they desperate to keep old players, or get new. Changes have come naturally too of course. I don't see WoW as either shit or a cashgrab, but I can see why people think differently than me
    There are short-term rewards and long-term ones for sure. Short-term ones can be getting a piece of transmog, or seeing a new area, or gaining a level. It depends on the person playing.

    The long-term ones simply shifted and changed as the playerbase evolved and the game followed. Remember, player behaviour shapes the game. We haven't ended up with the game we currently have without reason. Whilst there are blatant grabs for cash through offering a short-term, easy rewards (store mounts), there are also long-term rewards that tend to also be considered the best ones, the most worthwhile ones, by the players.

    Other than that you're commendable for your approach. We don't know what's the deal with stats on new players vs old ones, but I just think it's weird when some (general statement, not aimed at you) lay down contradicting views on the topic.
    The game can't simultaneously be made to drive old players away in order to attract new players, then not attract new players and still remain wildly profitable 10 years later (when I joined and first saw the argument made by Classic/TBC fans). <.<

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    There are short-term rewards and long-term ones for sure. Short-term ones can be getting a piece of transmog, or seeing a new area, or gaining a level. It depends on the person playing.

    The long-term ones simply shifted and changed as the playerbase evolved and the game followed. Remember, player behaviour shapes the game. We haven't ended up with the game we currently have without reason. Whilst there are blatant grabs for cash through offering a short-term, easy rewards (store mounts), there are also long-term rewards that tend to also be considered the best ones, the most worthwhile ones, by the players.

    Other than that you're commendable for your approach. We don't know what's the deal with stats on new players vs old ones, but I just think it's weird when some (general statement, not aimed at you) lay down contradicting views on the topic.
    The game can't simultaneously be made to drive old players away in order to attract new players, then not attract new players and still remain wildly profitable 10 years later (when I joined and first saw the argument made by Classic/TBC fans). <.<
    I might explain badly, but with the dilemma between making this game for older players, or make it appeal more for younger players I meant that it seems they try to make it for both old players and new younger players, but they might not find the best solution for either of said kind of players. Not that they try to drive anyone away from the game. Would it be best to continue making the game for older players, or for new and when they decide, how do they change it and not lose players, both old and new.

    As to the reward system. Fast rewards is what triggers newer generation of gamers to play more, while the regular loyal WoW-player might see the rewards you put some effort to get is more satisfying. Of course, not saying it's like that 100%, no exceptions, people are indeed different, old or young. More of a general statement . We all have seen the Diablo Immortal debate. Why did blizz make a mobile game instead of a pc-game? Because mobile-games earn more money and are extremely popular, just not among the regular Diablo player who started with Diablo in their parents basement on a fossile of a computer in 1997. Another conflict right there.
    Zandalari music for BfA. Pure GOLD!

    Tortollan or Clash of Clans will kill WoW.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Pisses me off to no end.

    Rift did it with Conquest where they put strong/decent rewards behind it and then claimed "IT'S GOOD CONTENT CUZ PEOPLE DO IT". No shit people do content that has good rewards.....

    Honestly ActiBlizz are just slowly digging this games grave. Because ironically even this whole timegating crap isn't working.
    That’s the funniest part too lol. Every action they’ve taken since late Legion is blatant in its intent and it isn’t even working

  16. #116
    The Lightbringer gutnbrg's Avatar
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    i agree with this. Im exalted with honorbound and zandalari for a bit now, but im revered with everything else and i cant be arsed to try.....when i get there i get there. Never felt like this before in wow

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    I might explain badly, but with the dilemma between making this game for older players, or make it appeal more for younger players I meant that it seems they try to make it for both old players and new younger players, but they might not find the best solution for either of said kind of players. Not that they try to drive anyone away from the game. Would it be best to continue making the game for older players, or for new and when they decide, how do they change it and not lose players, both old and new.
    I would argue that this is less about older and younger and much more about how long people have played the game. Reputation stuff was viewed one way when the game was newer but after so many of them most people now just want them to be over as quickly as possible. That long quest chain or attunement that meant so much in vanilla would now be little more than a source of frustration for players that have played for years. You can only do similar things so many times before they become routine.

    There are relatively few new players. Most of the complaining I see here are from people who are clearly veterans who have been around for years.
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  18. #118
    The Unstoppable Force
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    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    So when did putting in months of grinding towards reskins become acceptable? Look at how Blizzard has lowered their own standards.
    Don't like it; don't do it.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  19. #119
    It's stopped me taking the plunge to purchase BFA. I would like to play a Dark Iron dwarf and not have to fuck about on an old main to get that.

  20. #120
    Rep grind in BfA is fine to unlock allied races.
    But i think blizzard should give ppl an option and let them gain the rep by dungeon runs aswell.

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