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  1. #1

    Consumable cost and the price of raiding

    I want to preface this by saying i am in a guild that progresses fairly quickly through content. we are usually finished with a tier within 5-6 weeks of its mythic release. I am making this thread to see people's opinions on how much consumable requirements for raiding cost at the moment. my guild went into this tier with nearly 5 million gold and now, on the fourth lockout since we killed jaina, we are hovering at about 300k gold left to use in crucible. people's personal expenses (particularly ring rerolls) probably also added another 2.5-3 million gold to that requirement. we provide pots, flasks and feasts for our raiders. I honestly think that even with the new items that make the alchemy proc chance high, the cost of potions is too high, whether this is caused by scarcity of resources or by the greed of herb/alchemists, i'm not particularly concerned.

    Sales for mythic guilds are far, FAR down. People who have gold nowadays generally don't spend it on carries beyond +10 and 15 purchases, and we recieve far far less interest for sales (for extremely reasonable prices relative to the past) than we used to in legion and before. Basically if you are someone who wants to spend most of their time in raid, you will begin to hemorrhage gold, especially if you are purchasing your own consumables. one good attempt at jaina costed ~900 gold in pots per person, ~100 gold for a wipe, 50 gold eachish for the feast (assuming sanguicells are worthless), 3k for your vantus on pull 1, 300 for the augment rune you can't use on pull because of there not being enough of them. that's about 24k for a guild in costs per attempt. We did not perform the best on Jaina, taking about 350 pulls. if we had used potions before the last 100 or so pulls, we would have spent 8.4 MILLION gold just attempting to kill the boss. just rekilling all 8 previous bosses, assuming no wipes, is a guild cost of almost 175 thousand gold.

    I think that either herbalism/alchemy needs to be buffed to the point that your time spent yields 5-10x the potions, or people need to be encouraged to purchase raid sales again. Raid sales right now are cheap compared to the amount of gold still in the economy, but the people who make money from herbing also need a gold sink to funnel that money back into a single person, who can then afford to buy raid sales and keep the economy circling. If you want to play any more than casually now you will soon have to invest nearly the time you spend in raid out of raid collecting herbs. what do you guys think of the state of consumables/what would you change if you could

  2. #2
    Consumable costs are crazy high compared to the easy days of Burning Crusade through WoD for sure.

    Legion is when they decided that raiding should involve farming mythic+, farming AP, forking over a lot more gold or spending a lot more time farming and otherwise doing tons of shit outside of raid to raid.

  3. #3
    gota keep that bubble goin, cant possibly change your habits, nonono

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by apples View Post
    gota keep that bubble goin, cant possibly change your habits, nonono
    As if mythic Jaina isn't tuned around potions, flasks, augment runes, vantus, feasts.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    As if mythic Jaina isn't tuned around potions, flasks, augment runes, vantus, feasts.
    so then if no one can use those things because no one has money, then no one gets the kill and blizzard does what? laughs that no one downs the content?

    thats almost a good point you got there

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by apples View Post
    so then if no one can use those things because no one has money, then no one gets the kill and blizzard does what? laughs that no one downs the content?

    thats almost a good point you got there
    I mean you're talking about changing habits, as if these things aren't more or less necessary to kill mythic Jaina.

    Are you arguing that guilds should all stop spending their gold to progress, so that Blizzard sees low completion numbers and is like "wow we should nerf potion costs"?

  7. #7
    Pots are the most stupidest (yes, the most fucking stupidest) they've ever been. 20 herbs for a single potion is just fucking retarded.
    Granted, probably not every pot needs to be as dirt cheap as Prolonged Power was, but 20 herbs is simply ridiculous beyond belief.
    My guild stopped giving out pots to people after Uldir, just wasn't realistic enough anymore. And for most BoD bosses we weren't and still aren't expected to use pots, mostly because the first 6 bosses are a joke and the latter 3 bosses don't actually get easier by pushing P1 10s earlier. We didn't even bother with JC rings for the most part as a single ring on my server still costs about 500k to this day.

    Flasks are fine, Feasts are fine (as long as we'll eventually get the useless Bwonsamdi stuff to use for them), Vantus are fine, Runes are fine, it's really just the stupid pots that quintuple the gold cost per raid. These pots should've been reduced down to 4-6 herbs per pot months ago, but I don't actually expect them to do anything about the situation before 8.2/.5.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    I mean you're talking about changing habits, as if these things aren't more or less necessary to kill mythic Jaina.

    Are you arguing that guilds should all stop spending their gold to progress, so that Blizzard sees low completion numbers and is like "wow we should nerf potion costs"?
    guilds either need to do 1) farm more 2) advocate for cheaper raiding materials 3) stop using materials.

    if you can see another alternative then by all means do that. pretending that youre owed by blizzard the same level of wealth that you had in the past is probably not smart or efficient, though.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by apples View Post
    guilds either need to do 1) farm more 2) advocate for cheaper raiding materials 3) stop using materials.

    if you can see another alternative then by all means do that. pretending that youre owed by blizzard the same level of wealth that you had in the past is probably not smart or efficient, though.
    The OP is advocating for cheaper raiding materials in this thread.

    Don't know what you're talking about with your weird entitlement argument, but the time spent doing unfun things outside of raiding in order to raid increased dramatically after Legion. It's worse now than in classic, which is pretty bad. Makes lots of people quit the game. Some people don't want to quit the game they just want it to have more fun and less enforced tedium like it did from Burning Crusade through WoD.

  10. #10
    They said recently that the costs of consumables are this high because you are not supposed to use them all the time. What's the point of pre-potting, runes and feasts when you don't even have the strategy and execution figured out? What's the point of all of that on farm bosses besides chasing logs?

    You totally need to use 2 potions to be able to kill champions of light.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by apples View Post
    guilds either need to do 1) farm more 2) advocate for cheaper raiding materials 3) stop using materials.

    if you can see another alternative then by all means do that. pretending that youre owed by blizzard the same level of wealth that you had in the past is probably not smart or efficient, though.
    wait... isn't he advocating for cheaper raiding mats in this post?

    I don't get ur point tbh.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    They said recently that the costs of consumables are this high because you are not supposed to use them all the time. What's the point of pre-potting, runes and feasts when you don't even have the strategy and execution figured out? What's the point of all of that on farm bosses besides chasing logs?

    You totally need to use 2 potions to be able to kill champions of light.
    The OP is talking about progressing on mythic Jaina, where they only used potions on the last 100 pulls.

    We're 7/9m and most people don't double pot on farm, nor do we put down feasts when we're figuring a boss out.

    Runes are too expensive to even think of using regularly.

    Even so we're hemorrhaging gold.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2019-03-30 at 10:22 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    The OP is talking about progressing on mythic Jaina, where they only used potions on the last 100 pulls.
    No he is talking about spending 175k gold just to rekill farm bosses. And he is also whining that his boost sales are down, pathetic.

    It takes a regular guild multiple weeks to do 100 pulls on a single boss, especially on a fight this long. There's plenty of time to farm some potions or whatever on off days. Especially since you didn't have to use them the first 200 pulls.

  14. #14
    Raiding is too epensive imho, yes, but it was worse at the beginning when flasks were still 3k....

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    No he is talking about spending 175k gold just to rekill farm bosses. And he is also whining that his boost sales are down, pathetic.

    It takes a regular guild multiple weeks to do 100 pulls on a single boss, especially on a fight this long. There's plenty of time to farm some potions or whatever on off days. Especially since you didn't have to use them the first 200 pulls.
    I don't see him whining at all, he is stating a fact and giving constructive feedback to herb/alch prices.

    This thread is aimed at more hardcore guilds, you can't compare a guild who only does 100 pulls in weeks with a guild that clears the whole mythic content in 4 weeks.

    Most of these people only play the game to raid competitively, the rest of the game doens't interest them at all, and who blames them in the state this game is right now?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Xalvia View Post
    I don't see him whining at all, he is stating a fact and giving constructive feedback to herb/alch prices.

    This thread is aimed at more hardcore guilds, you can't compare a guild who only does 100 pulls in weeks with a guild that clears the whole mythic content in 4 weeks.

    Most of these people only play the game to raid competitively, the rest of the game doens't interest them at all, and who blames them in the state this game is right now?
    If they clear it that fast, they have like 4 months to casually farm up some potions. And you are narrowing this non-issue to only what, 100 guilds, 2000 people? Who gives a fuck.

    And hardcore implies preparation, not raidlogging. I can understand this as an issue for someone who only wants to raidlog, but catering to that is bad for the game - see WoD.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Xalvia View Post
    I don't see him whining at all, he is stating a fact and giving constructive feedback to herb/alch prices.

    This thread is aimed at more hardcore guilds, you can't compare a guild who only does 100 pulls in weeks with a guild that clears the whole mythic content in 4 weeks.

    Most of these people only play the game to raid competitively, the rest of the game doens't interest them at all, and who blames them in the state this game is right now?
    to add on to this, contrary to popular belief, most of the people in the guild do actually have lives. Many guild members work full time, do sport, are finishing degrees, etc. The last thing people want to do is allocate more time to what is generally agreed upon to be a bad iteration of the game to farm herbs that should, with the way the economy is going, be at least half as expensive. People in our guild like to raid, and only raid. The way that people who are VERY good at raiding have in the past made money has always been to provide achievement services (which is a legitimate thing), and the effort you (and money) you put in to raiding should at least be somewhat correlated with the payoff, which at the moment is next to nothing.

    What i'm trying to say is that if you can't make money off raiding, raiding itself as an activity should not be as expensive.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    If they clear it that fast, they have like 4 months to casually farm up some potions. And you are narrowing this non-issue to only what, 100 guilds, 2000 people? Who gives a fuck.

    And hardcore implies preparation, not raidlogging. I can understand this as an issue for someone who only wants to raidlog, but catering to that is bad for the game - see WoD.
    Well, u answered ur own question. Those 2000 people give a fk. They are entitled to an opinion and voice like the rest of the playerbase.

    And yea, hardcore does IMPLY preparation - preparation in form of PTR (oh yea, those 2k players test the bosses and help blizzard releasing them as bug free as possible, but hey, who gives a fk), boss strats, spreadsheets - you name it. The last time it involved heavy edit: gold farming was back in classic/bc.

    oh yea, lets no forget ap which takes up most of the spare time.

    I don't get your point with WoD at all, WoD was crap because it didn't have anything to do, raiding was perfectly fine.
    Last edited by Xalvia; 2019-03-30 at 12:01 PM.

  19. #19
    Why buy boosts when there is not real incentive to run mythic besides the challenge ?
    Besides, people buying boosts are usually the types who cancel their subs when the game becomes bad, like it is now, and I don't blame them. So, fewer customers.

    I don't agree that people should be able to raid only in a live MMORPG. Various activities should be needed. This was the same with PvP, but the devs nearly totally relented on this and you can mostly pvp only.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Garfieldkart View Post
    What i'm trying to say is that if you can't make money off raiding, raiding itself as an activity should not be as expensive.
    I'm glad you can't make money off of boosting anymore, that's a good thing for the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xalvia View Post
    The last time it involved heavy farming was back in classic/bc.

    oh yea, lets no forget ap which takes up most of the spare time.
    You contradict yourself there. You had to farm ap & legendaries in legion. So the last time you had to farm was actually legion. Or in other words, you had to farm ever since WoD turned out to be crap for anyone not raidlogging. That's why you can't just raidlog anymore.

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