Consumable cost and the price of raiding

[TOM_RUS]

Yes potions cost is too high. Required amount of reagents to craft them must be significantly reduced.
And it's not just issue with raiding, in high M+ keys you spend a lot of potions too...

[Xalvia]

I'm glad you can't make money off of boosting anymore, that's a good thing for the game.



You contradict yourself there. You had to farm ap & legendaries in legion. So the last time you had to farm was actually legion. Or in other words, you had to farm ever since WoD turned out to be crap for anyone not raidlogging. That's why you can't just raidlog anymore.

I disagree. Farming legendarys / ap can be done while raiding or doing dungeons (ap heavy grinds are stupid, 1000x mos / islands, that is true) - so you are actually doing content you enjoy. For me the traditional term "farming" is connected with gold farming, which brings me back to OPs point - the cost of consumables. AP and gold farming are like apples and oranges, you can't really compare them.

[vashe9]

Are you serious ? my guild asks for 2 flasks + feasts / week... If you use the feasts with cells from Uldir they cost almost nothing. I farm 75pots/week for 3 raids nights and its enough, I use 2 pots on mosts pulls. It's 2h farm per week.

[Boo Radley]

A few points to consider if they would help your situation at all:

1. Sell mythic dungeon runs on non raid nights.
2. Make your own stuff
3. Draenic potions persist through death and are cheap, they at least make good farm night/figuring out the fight filler but arent for the "serious we-might-down-her-right-now pulls"
4. Out of touch dev's ruin yet another aspect of the game conflating play time with fun.

I really do feel for you, the consumables situation is basically the only thing keeping the boring ass economy and professions running and none of my responses are meant to be disrespectful, just ideas on how to circumvent the problem since you wont be getting any help from Ion Hazzikostas-Macron.

Side note: Can we all transmog yellow vests in game? Asking for a friend.

[La]

I disagree. Farming legendarys / ap can be done while raiding or doing dungeons (ap heavy grinds are stupid, 1000x mos / islands, that is true) - so you are actually doing content you enjoy. For me the traditional term "farming" is connected with gold farming, which brings me back to OPs point - the cost of consumables. AP and gold farming are like apples and oranges, you can't really compare them.

The fact someone thinks it's fine and makes sense that guilds should have to sell raid runs to support the cost of consumables and raiding is ridiculous itself.

I mean. there are top 200ish guilds that roll over the majority of Mythic bosses, but the vast majority of mythic raiders have a much slower progression system before they take the whole raid out, and those guilds don't exactly have the luxury to "Just farm pots in the 3 months you have between raid tiers 4head" They spend a ton of time wiping, progressing, and burning through potions.

Hell. If you push keys you burn through a ton of pots, too, which is what makes the price of pots go up in demand as well. I guess it's cool if some people don't have to worry about such things, though, then you can have an idiotic, and wrong, opinion like that guy because it doesn't affect you.

[Teph]

Raiding cost is fine for me. What i hate is the cost for m+. We really need a cheap potion like prolonged power in Legion. Using 15+ pots for one single dungeon ~400gold each is just absurd.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

i make all my money (which isn't much but it's enough) on alts via the mission table with runes and just scrapping everything and sending it to my main.

i only raid heroic BoD one night a week, though. i think they should just remove augment runes.

[Corroc]

Biggest problem I see in the op's post is that there is assumption that guilds will cover the potions and flasks for raiders. As long as this happens you are not going to see raiders try to solve the problems themself, they just complain that its too expensive because they are used to luxury.

[Tradu]

If they clear it that fast, they have like 4 months to casually farm up some potions. And you are narrowing this non-issue to only what, 100 guilds, 2000 people? Who gives a fuck.

And hardcore implies preparation, not raidlogging. I can understand this as an issue for someone who only wants to raidlog, but catering to that is bad for the game - see WoD.

WoD was one of the best expansions in terms of raiding, specifically because you could just do the things you actually enjoyed doing, rather than being essentially forced into doing a bunch of easy content that you're not interested in.

[exochaft]

Biggest problem I see in the op's post is that there is assumption that guilds will cover the potions and flasks for raiders. As long as this happens you are not going to see raiders try to solve the problems themself, they just complain that its too expensive because they are used to luxury.

Back in my hardcore heroic/mythic raiding days, my guild would assist sometimes, but it was basically a requirement that you get your own consumables. Now you would have guildies that would help out others still, but very early on I got into the habit of always having an alt with herb/alchy and an alt with enchanting as minimum (jewelcrafting if I felt like it) to make ALL my own stuff. Even without doing much in the way of playing the AH and even buying some stacks of herbs when I'm feeling lazy, I make all my own stuff while my gold levels constantly increase.

I generally see mid/low-tier mythic raiding guilds complain about the costs when they're the least affected by it while tending to have raiders that log on for just raid and nothing else. If you don't play the game and don't put some effort into it, of course things will get expensive when even minimal time investment will keep you with a positive gold flow. In terms of flasks/potions, it's insanely easy to always be in the positive now with the Silas tool, enchanting to a lesser degree.

[Garfieldkart]

Biggest problem I see in the op's post is that there is assumption that guilds will cover the potions and flasks for raiders. As long as this happens you are not going to see raiders try to solve the problems themself, they just complain that its too expensive because they are used to luxury.

The thing is that when you are taking 300-400 pulls on a boss in gear where the pots and vantus and every little other thing will likely be the difference between a kill, the best way to fund and provide consumables for everyone is to fund it with a gbank that is then repayed through sales later. My main issue with pots isn't the price, it's that there's no gold reward to raiding that repays the time spent with the lack of interest in raid sales nowadays, and no i don't believe that we should have to spend literally 2-3 hours farming the, no exaggeration, 1200-1300 herbs required to make 75ish potions for a full night on Jaina.

[Tehterokkar]

I have no issue with current consumable costs.

I do raid in a very high ranked mythic guild, so consumables are 100% required, however our guild provides Feasts, Augments(only in cases where we determine we need them to kill a boss), Flasks and some money for potions each tier(think for BoD it was like 250k/raider for potions). The gold for all the consumables is purely through boosting mythic raids. I can understand this being an issue for some lower ranked guilds that barely clear Mythic or don't get any buyers for mythic raids, but there are also other options such as heroic boosts or m+ boosts.

For my alts, I still buy consumables(food+flask+pots) for m+ and heroic raids I do. My main gold income is through m+ boosting, which is roughly 150-250k/2 weeks depending on how much I do, and it keeps me afloat well enough through doing m+ weekly on 4 characters using flask+food+pots each dungeon.

As per usual, the game is an MMO, your success and wealth is mostly determined by the people around you. Find a group of friends that can perform well, and start doing m+ to get into the higher boosting communities or raiding guilds. You get to do the hardest content in the game and make money easily.

Overall I think Flasks and Food are very cheap this expansion, however potions seem like the outlier, costing around 180-300g(depending on the potion, strength potions are super cheap, while Agility are the most expensive IIRC) per potion while flasks cost like almost the same but last 1 hour(or 2 hours with Alchemy, good money saving tip!)

[vsb]

For me potions are the most expensive, followed by runes. I'm forced to buy 2 tokens/month to keep myself stocked. I don't see that as a HUGE problem, because gold is cheap, really. But I would like to avoid buying tokens, for sure. Never did that before.

[Mardux]

so then if no one can use those things because no one has money, then no one gets the kill and blizzard does what? laughs that no one downs the content?

thats almost a good point you got there

Can anyone help me? Im not seeing the necessity for apple's hyperbole.

[vsb]

Consumable costs are crazy high compared to the easy days of Burning Crusade through WoD for sure.

Legion is when they decided that raiding should involve farming mythic+, farming AP, forking over a lot more gold or spending a lot more time farming and otherwise doing tons of shit outside of raid to raid.

Well, they introduced cheap potions quite early in Legion if my memory serves right. And I fear that Zandalar hat is the "cheap potion" of BfA.

[Corroc]

1200-1300 herbs required to make 75ish potions for a full night on Jaina.

One potion 18 herbs, potion proc chance cuts that to third. Earlier you said that your guild only used pots for last 100 pulls. so basically that would be 200 pots for total of jaina progress which you have been doing for a month? Is it still too much for you?

[Garfieldkart]

One potion 18 herbs, potion proc chance cuts that to third. Earlier you said that your guild only used pots for last 100 pulls. so basically that would be 200 pots for total of jaina progress which you have been doing for a month? Is it still too much for you?

200 per person is 4 thousand, and yeah that is too much in my opinion. at 450 each (my servers potion cost for all of jaina prog) that's 1.8 million spent in the span of about a week. Seems far too high to me

[Jazzhands]

You could always farm the materials yourself instead of paying gold. An hour of farming a week really wouldn't be that bad, and probably cut costs by a good amount, especially if you focus on specific things. Herbs are everywhere this expansion, I feel like I can't go 10 feet sometimes without picking a damn flower, I think this is one reason why potions require so much, you get a lot in a shorter period of time compared to previous expansions imo.

Then again, I haven't done the math and I don't know all the costs and how much you can make per hour selling stuff so i really don't know how much it would help, but if there's significantly less people buying runs and that well is running dry, manually farming is the next step I think. You could even try to make a thing out of it to make it less boring, have an hour of farming after a raid or something where everyone is still hanging out on voice chat and such. I know it's not the most fun thing either way but, when it comes to mythic raiding sometimes you have to make sacrifices. An hour a week of farming wouldn't be the worst thing imo.

I'm guessing DPS potions are the highest cost thing, maybe focus on farming those specifically and drop gold on Flasks/Feasts ect, 20 people farming for an hour could bring in quite a hefty amount of herbs.

[stenbumling89]

You could always farm the materials yourself instead of paying gold. An hour of farming a week really wouldn't be that bad, and probably cut costs by a good amount, especially if you focus on specific things. Herbs are everywhere this expansion, I feel like I can't go 10 feet sometimes without picking a damn flower, I think this is one reason why potions require so much, you get a lot in a shorter period of time compared to previous expansions imo.

Then again, I haven't done the math and I don't know all the costs and how much you can make per hour selling stuff so i really don't know how much it would help, but if there's significantly less people buying runs and that well is running dry, manually farming is the next step I think. You could even try to make a thing out of it to make it less boring, have an hour of farming after a raid or something where everyone is still hanging out on voice chat and such. I know it's not the most fun thing either way but, when it comes to mythic raiding sometimes you have to make sacrifices. An hour a week of farming wouldn't be the worst thing imo.

One hour is not nearly enough farming if you are still progressing.

[Jazzhands]

One hour is not nearly enough farming if you are still progressing.

The intent wasn't to completely eliminate costs, just make a potentially large dent in the thing that costs the most, DPS potions. Going from 0 hours of farming to 20-30 across the guild (I don't know how many people are in his guild) could remove a decent chunk of gold, all for only a single hour of farming per person.

I get that selling runs would be significantly more lucrative in terms of gold/hour, but if there are no customers, then it's 0/hour. There's an easy solution to bringing that cost down, and this is it. Mythic raiding requires a bit of sacrifice, it always has.

And you know, if you do it as a guild and organize it, you can make it incredibly efficient. Let's just say 20 people, there are 6 zones, that's 3 people per zone with 2 extra going around. Spread out to cover a third of the zone each to avoid overlapping. Although, sharding ect but, organization is great.