Thread: Joe Biden- why?

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  1. #461
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    But it's not a contest between the two, it's a contest between them and Biden. Even if Warren does better and pulls the progressive Democrats who are policy first, as long as Bernie is around he will take enough of the vote for Biden to win states. Yet if Bernie was out and possibly endorsed Warren who is a much better version of Bernie when it comes to actual policy (but just has little charisma) then she'd have a real shot as everything Biden is not.

    Plus I think Warren actually has the policies that could help her win back the states the Dems lost to Trump.
    This is a possibility. But it's also possible that Biden pulls a Jeb Bush and ends up fizzling out before the primary proper - it's difficult to tell prior to the debates simply because candidates have a harder time messaging in direct contrast to one another.

    I agree that Warren has a much more solid set of policy proposals and, quite frankly, I think she's got the chops to use the Oval Office's bully pulpit to make life difficult for McConnell if the GOP maintained their majority in such a scenario. Which is why I'm backing her in the primary.

    Sanders was notable in 2016 because he was the only vocal progressive in a field of centrist milquetoasts and one big name blue dog (Clinton) - I don't anticipate as much success because all he has now is residual name recognition. He's got the likes of Warren, Harris, and Buttigieg to compete with now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaid View Post
    Bernie had an easier time when he was the only alternative to hillary. That is not the case now so if you just want old white guy you vote for biden but if you want somebody really progressive there are a lot of options and warren is quickly making a good case for herself. It really depends how rapidly the herd of candidates thins out the more there are the better bernie probably will do just because he has enough set base to win some states but if things winnow quickly down to a handful of candidates I think he will have a lot less luck.
    Well said.

    As always, though, campaign matters as much as candidates. It's been pretty clear thus far who's doing the legwork and who's trying to cruise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbow Capitalist View Post
    Biden Leads New Nevada Poll, as Warren Surpasses Sanders

    Biden - 36%

    Warren - 19%

    Sanders - 13%

    Buttigieg - 7%

    Harris - 6%

    Things aren't going so well for Bernie. Biden is demolishing it tho.
    They aren't going well for him because his only appeal was his unique platform. His disadvantages were his age and the fact that he's not a woman or a minority. If these younger candidates can just hijack his platform while being younger and more charismatic, he really has nothing going for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Fuck that guy. If he'd stuck with being a Democrat, or ran this time around as an Independent, I wouldn't feel nearly this strongly, but he didn't, and he's not.
    Frankly, that's a puzzling position. If you agree with him ideologically (which you do) and think Democrats fail to be left-wing enough (which you do) then why would you give a rat's ass about party loyalty?

  3. #463
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Frankly, that's a puzzling position. If you agree with him ideologically (which you do) and think Democrats fail to be left-wing enough (which you do) then why would you give a rat's ass about party loyalty?
    Because I have principles and ethics, to be blunt. I don't overlook unethical conduct just because it might be advantageous to those who lean closer to my ideological viewpoint. I'm not going to accept his unethical manipulation of the Democratic Party's primary system, for his personal aggrandizement, just because I agreed with some of his policy suggestions.

    Particularly not when Warren is right there on most of them as well.


  4. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Frankly, fuck Bernie Sanders.

    I applauded his run in 2016, his decision to swallow his independence and caucus with the Democrats to try and achieve something.

    And then he lost the primary, and demonstrated he'd never had a change of heart, went back to being an Independent, and kept on doing his thing.

    Now he's trying to caucus with the Democrats again, and it's become clear that he has only one reason for doing so. Because he thinks he can use their party to help him maybe win the Presidency. He doesn't want to be a Democrat; if he did, he'd have stayed with the Party. He just wants to use them for his own, personal, self-aggrandizement.

    Fuck that guy. If he'd stuck with being a Democrat, or ran this time around as an Independent, I wouldn't feel nearly this strongly, but he didn't, and he's not.

    There's also no way he's gonna back Warren; he only cares about his own victory. And there's no way Warren will back him; he's not a Democrat and has proven he doesn't want to work within the party unless it's to his benefit. He's only going to split votes and cause problems, and he doesn't give a shit, because he only cares about his own potential for winning. He wants the Presidency as a final feather in his cap before he retires. He's Socialist Trump.
    One whiny selfish voter deserves a whiny selfish candidate.
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  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Because I have principles and ethics, to be blunt. I don't overlook unethical conduct just because it might be advantageous to those who lean closer to my ideological viewpoint. I'm not going to accept his unethical manipulation of the Democratic Party's primary system, for his personal aggrandizement, just because I agreed with some of his policy suggestions.

    Particularly not when Warren is right there on most of them as well.
    I don't see how he manipulated the primary system. If the party doesn't like that you can be an independent all the time except when you want to run for president, then maybe they should change the rules so you can't do that. Who cares about the stupid parties anyway? Almost all liberals except the centrist ones hate the Dems and almost all conservatives except the ones sitting in Washington eating caviar hate the GOP.

  6. #466
    Biden wants to Make America America Again. A slogan that Michael Avenetti says was stolen from him...who apparently stole it from Scott Baio?

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobb View Post
    How so?

    Right now The Hill shows in a general election poll Biden wining by 13 points, 53% vs 40%.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...-national-poll

    Even when all polls are averaged in they all show Biden beating Trump by a large margin, this including the conservative Fox and Rasmussen polls.
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...iden-6247.html
    People being polled is very important. On top of that being the early front runner as a challenger is almost always a kiss of death. His numbers will drop as the dems start facing off against each other. Another reason polls are insanely misleading even if yiu have a balanced source is we don't elect based on popular vote. If Biden or any other challenger cant win a handful of specific swing states or flip red states it doesn't matter.
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  8. #468
    Because Politics, that's why

  9. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    People being polled is very important. On top of that being the early front runner as a challenger is almost always a kiss of death. His numbers will drop as the dems start facing off against each other. Another reason polls are insanely misleading even if yiu have a balanced source is we don't elect based on popular vote. If Biden or any other challenger cant win a handful of specific swing states or flip red states it doesn't matter.
    Exactly. While the polling was accurate down the line in 2016, including for margin of error, it continually changed as Trump got closer and closer. Paying attention to polls right now, this early, is beyond stupid.

    The Dems need to get out there and talk about jobs and healthcare and taxes and forget everything else.

    And agreed - our electoral system is so fucked up we don't even use a popular vote. So a national poll is double useless.

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaid View Post
    Bernie had an easier time when he was the only alternative to hillary.
    I completely agree with everything you said. I actually been taking it one step further, in saying if Warren or any one else remotely credible ran against Hillary, Sanders would be as known as he was for the 30 years in government, before being the only challenger to Hillary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RewindGuild View Post
    Because Politics, that's why
    If I were a hacker, I would make it my goal to change every reply in the politics forum be “because politics”. I’m not even being a jerk, I think it would be pretty funny.
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  11. #471
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    Resident smug pedophile fanboy just can't not take L's on a regular occurrence it's great.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Exactly. While the polling was accurate down the line in 2016, including for margin of error, it continually changed as Trump got closer and closer. Paying attention to polls right now, this early, is beyond stupid.

    The Dems need to get out there and talk about jobs and healthcare and taxes and forget everything else.

    And agreed - our electoral system is so fucked up we don't even use a popular vote. So a national poll is double useless.
    While polling this far out is not really important just talking to folks in your area gives you a better idea of how the overall mood of the nation is. This was telling during the previous election and is no different for the coming election either. My brother kept telling me over and over that Trump is speaking truth to the underclass of folks and i ignored the possibility as i felt that people would see past his crazy claims and the mocking a disabled person ruined his chances but it enforced the idea that people do not care unless it hurts them in the financial sense. That should not happen again but i wont hold my breath either.

  13. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I completely agree with everything you said. I actually been taking it one step further, in saying if Warren or any one else remotely credible ran against Hillary, Sanders would be as known as he was for the 30 years in government, before being the only challenger to Hillary.
    In further support of this argument...

    Elizabeth Warren leaped ahead of Bernie Sanders into second place in a pair of Democratic presidential primary polls released Wednesday.

    Warren has overtaken Sanders nationally, according to a new Economist/YouGov poll, which puts the Massachusetts senator ahead of her Vermont counterpart 16 percent to 12 percent. Former Vice President Joe Biden still leads all contenders with 26 percent support.

    Warren also polls ahead of Sanders in Nevada, where Democrats will caucus next February after the Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary. Biden leads the first Monmouth poll of likely Democratic caucusgoers in Nevada with 36 percent support, followed by Warren at 19 percent and Sanders at 13 percent.

    “Nevada’s highly unionized service sector workforce may be a good fit for Warren’s policy platform when you look at the Democratic electorates in the four early states,” said Patrick Murray, director of the independent Monmouth University Polling Institute. “However, she is nowhere near the top tier in terms of candidate preferences among Latino and black voters, who make up a significant part of the party’s base here.”

    National polling averages still show Sanders running significantly ahead of Warren. But Warren’s vote share has generally ticked up over the past month or two amid a flurry of policy rollouts and a strong organizing presence in early voting states.

    ---

    In the Economist/YouGov survey, Warren’s net favorability is slighter higher than Sanders’, -6 percent to -7 percent, but Sanders is tied with New York Mayor Bill de Blasio for the candidate whom likely Democratic voters would be most disappointed to see win the nomination.

    Twenty-percent of respondents said it would disappoint them if Sanders or de Blasio won the Democratic nomination for president. Nineteen percent said the same of Biden. Only 9 percent said they would be disappointed if Warren won the nomination.
    Bolded for emphasis. Metrics like this are important to account for especially in FPTP systems where people have to vote strategically - while it's only one poll, if this holds up elsewhere it's somewhat interesting that both Sanders *and* Biden are as offensive to as many Democrats as Bill de Blasio.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Bolded for emphasis. Metrics like this are important to account for especially in FPTP systems where people have to vote strategically - while it's only one poll, if this holds up elsewhere it's somewhat interesting that both Sanders *and* Biden are as offensive to as many Democrats as Bill de Blasio.
    If Warren wins the nomination I wonder how many times Trump will say Pocahontas in the general election.

    But also, if dirt Trump has on her is that she overestimated how native american she was then that's not a good sign for Trump.

  15. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    If Warren wins the nomination I wonder how many times Trump will say Pocahontas in the general election.

    But also, if dirt Trump has on her is that she overestimated how native american she was then that's not a good sign for Trump.
    Part of me wants to see her win the nomination if only because I am dying to see a Trump versus Warren debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Part of me wants to see her win the nomination if only because I am dying to see a Trump versus Warren debate.
    "We need to regulate the banks so we do not have another 2008 financial crisis"
    "POCAHONTAS!!!!!"

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  17. #477
    The new YouGov poll spells trouble for Bernie as he falls to third place behind Biden and Warren. Warren is chipping from Bernie.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbow Capitalist View Post
    The new YouGov poll spells trouble for Bernie as he falls to third place behind Biden and Warren. Warren is chipping from Bernie.
    Is this surprising? To me the bigger story is the failure of the other more centrist candidates to break any significant amount of support away from Biden.
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  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Is this surprising? To me the bigger story is the failure of the other more centrist candidates to break any significant amount of support away from Biden.
    Yeah it's surprising. Warren didn't look like that serious of a candidate a few weeks ago when she was polling below Beto.

  20. #480
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbow Capitalist View Post
    The new YouGov poll spells trouble for Bernie as he falls to third place behind Biden and Warren. Warren is chipping from Bernie.
    Isn't that poll favoring the oldest of voters?

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