Page 22 of 28 FirstFirst ...
12
20
21
22
23
24
... LastLast
  1. #421
    Threads like this showcase the exact reason why Classic Wow will be a huge hit. "World of Warcraft" has turned into "Instances of Warcraft" + a slot machine. Wow has lost it's roots of what it means to be in a mmorpg.

    Vanilla felt as if you were venturing in a completely different world and had many aspects of what being a "world" felt like.
    Unfortunately, since Vanilla, the game has failed to bring the "world" back together.

    Yes the game play & mechanics of Classic isn't anywhere near to what retail is, however, the feeling of playing the game, the community and adventure far surpasses anything blizzard has developed since Classic.

    Think of it like this, guilds had to actually travel together to get to Molten core on most pvp servers. The social aspect of meeting up, mounting up and venturing off together just to ensure the raid would start. Many guilds didn't even make it into raid nights because of the mass wars. These types of scenarios mimic what potentially could happen within a world.

    The design of classic at its core was intelligently crafted to mimic events that would be inline with what a "world" feels like.

    Summer is coming.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    A question ends with a question mark.
    The title ends with a point. It's an affirmation, not a question.
    My bad

    I looked in the address bar https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...7#post51027857

    and got deceived by the "anymore?" not seeing was the syntax of the site, my apologize.


    Unfortunately is still valid the fact that his title isn't his post so well....

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    You're really complaining about having more pets\mounts to collect? Regardless of low %s to obtain them? Wow.
    I complain about having just stupidly high amouts of those things available with each comming patch and nearly all of them locked behind extremely low drop chance combined with activities associated with them being utterly tedious, not fun, not engaging, not requireing any skill or whatever. It's 90% of the time "go there, farm, farm, farm, just kill stuff eventually it may drop, have fun pushing one button."

    I wouldn't complain much if those things were available for achieving something, character progression, some engaging activities which require something more than just logging into the game and sitting there doing mind numbing things. I used to collect those things but since Legion it became a never ending chase after recolours and random drops.

  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizson View Post
    It feels like there is nothing to do. Everything is kinda useless and I will definietly not do things like pet battle or getting transmogs etc. the game is just really dry and repetitive. At least back then you slowly unlocked everything, by doing hard quests to get keys to dungeons etc. nowadays everything is instant and nothing has value in WoW.
    Hard quests? I don't remember WoW ever having those.

    Endgame has always been about raids. The difference is that now the game has multiple difficulties. So finishing the harder difficulty still takes a lot of time and effort, but you can feel like you've finished the content by doing lower difficulties. The hard content is still there; it's arguably harder than it used to be.

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Or do you mean that 90% of players starting BfA have left?
    Of course not, the last THREE expansions were disastrous. WoD started at 10 million for fuck's sake. Now it's less than 2 million, I bet you my dick for it. They are too cowardly to show the numbers, because they are a SHAME, an indicative of what the game has become.

    It's not "the game is 15 years old", it's "the game is pure shit". They are driving it into the ground without taking any measures, which is incredible. Why they didn't change the people in charge of the game after such a drop? Well, the answer is really simple, because they make the game for money now, not for players. Subscription numbers don't matter anymore as they said, because they get their money otherwise, and that's the only thing the investors care about. It's a fucking mobile game on PC, you know, a game that never ends, through abundant RNG, and has a shop, in fact multiple shops, which makes it much better for investors

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizson View Post
    It feels like there is nothing to do. Everything is kinda useless and I will definietly not do things like pet battle or getting transmogs etc. the game is just really dry and repetitive. At least back then you slowly unlocked everything, by doing hard quests to get keys to dungeons etc. nowadays everything is instant and nothing has value in WoW.
    LOL. Nothing was ever hard. Tedious does not = hard.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    Threads like this showcase the exact reason why Classic Wow will be a huge hit. "World of Warcraft" has turned into "Instances of Warcraft" + a slot machine. Wow has lost it's roots of what it means to be in a mmorpg.

    Vanilla felt as if you were venturing in a completely different world and had many aspects of what being a "world" felt like.
    Unfortunately, since Vanilla, the game has failed to bring the "world" back together.

    Yes the game play & mechanics of Classic isn't anywhere near to what retail is, however, the feeling of playing the game, the community and adventure far surpasses anything blizzard has developed since Classic.

    Think of it like this, guilds had to actually travel together to get to Molten core on most pvp servers. The social aspect of meeting up, mounting up and venturing off together just to ensure the raid would start. Many guilds didn't even make it into raid nights because of the mass wars. These types of scenarios mimic what potentially could happen within a world.

    The design of classic at its core was intelligently crafted to mimic events that would be inline with what a "world" feels like.

    Summer is coming.
    Spken like someone who is wearing nostalgia glasses. 6 months people will be leaving Classic in droves when people remember just how tedious and awful it was after the nostalgia wears off.

  7. #427
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Land of the mighty moose, polar bears and fika.
    Posts
    6,009
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    LOL. Nothing was ever hard. Tedious does not = hard.
    I can guarantee that people will die a lot more in WoW Classic than they ever do in BFA, in solo content. Because things were objectively tougher compared to players than now. It actually does make a difference when mobs hit for 3-4% of your total hp per swing, no matter how much people want to pretend that didn't happen.

    And then people like to pretend like accidental pulls didn't happen, or a mob running away at low health and (of course) your finishing move misses or still gets dodged.

    People like to pretend that mobs in Classic were the same as now, just with more hp. No, they hurt a lot more, take longer to kill, and remember that missing, or being dodged/parried/resisted actually was a thing. I also like mobs that are immune to certain type of damage, because of flavor. Can't poison a mech.

    Spken like someone who is wearing nostalgia glasses. 6 months people will be leaving Classic in droves when people remember just how tedious and awful it was after the nostalgia wears off.
    Then they can go back to play-the-patch BFA. WoW Classic has a different target demographic than BFA. MMORPG vs Action RPG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khallid View Post
    Hard quests? I don't remember WoW ever having those.
    I mean, the attunement quests of some raids was probably a higher barrier of entry than heroic raids at this point, if you look at time invested.
    The difficulty people generally speak of when it comes to questing came from your character being overall weak and lacking tools, and the fact that mobs were a lot tougher relative to players. Also there was a lot of missing, mobs dodging etc.

    The difficulty was very rarely related to the quest itself. But if you throw a poorly geared warrior (because no, there's no heirlooms, and a lot of people have gear without any actual stats other than armor well into their lvl 20s) in an area of gnolls (remember that they flee?), and you literally can't charge into a camp of 4+ gnolls and even expect to get one of them to 50% hp, then that is more difficult than anything 'modern quests' throw at you.

    Endgame has always been about raids.
    No, that started in BC (and more heavily in LK, with the first raid tier being cleared by people in Sunwell gear), when Blizzard seriously reworked what was necessary to get into raiding (Karazhan). Leveling 1-60 if you don't have much previous knowledge will easily take 200+ hours. There's an entire game just within 1-60 and getting more powerful. Sure, people "just go for 60" but they won't get there that easily. 60 will always be the goal on the horizon, but you're still having a satisfying game experience on the way. Just hitting 20 takes about 25 hours even if you know what to do. Maybe 22~ hours if you're using a questing addon pointing you where to go.

    The hard content is still there; it's arguably harder than it used to be.
    The hardest content is no doubt harder than old endgame.
    It's just unfortunate that the only content that is allowed to even have some bare minimum risk of failure is m+ and premade raiding...
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2019-04-02 at 06:50 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The biggest challenge of WoW is designing for the many different audiences that play the game.
    Yeah, you're trying to satisfy players who doesn't even enjoy playing RPGs, and thus you're alienating those who do.

  8. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by Art the Clown View Post
    You're right, it's shite! Endgame since launch as been grinding world quests for rep. How fucking exciting!
    Yeah, except the part where that was relevant for like a week or two in August. Now I'm raiding, running M+ keys, PvP, WPvP when Assaults are up because it's just plain fun aside from any useful rewards... so yeah if you're still "grinding" WQs for rewards you don't need, and by "grind" I mean like play for 20 minutes every 3 days, then maybe you should try some of the actual end game.

    By that logic, if you didn't run dungeons, do raids, and PvP in Classic then there was no content then either. WQs is just the most entry level filler to do when you only have 15 minutes or so to play, and personally I like that there's a reason to get out in the world and run into Ally/Horde fights and see the zones. Old end game was camping out in a city, zero reason to revisit the expansion's zones other than to harvest some mat.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    No, that started in BC (and more heavily in LK, with the first raid tier being cleared by people in Sunwell gear), when Blizzard seriously reworked what was necessary to get into raiding (Karazhan). Leveling 1-60 if you don't have much previous knowledge will easily take 200+ hours. There's an entire game just within 1-60 and getting more powerful. Sure, people "just go for 60" but they won't get there that easily. 60 will always be the goal on the horizon, but you're still having a satisfying game experience on the way. Just hitting 20 takes about 25 hours even if you know what to do. Maybe 22~ hours if you're using a questing addon pointing you where to go.
    I explicitly said "endgame". Leveling is not endgame. Your examples are correct, but they're unrelated to my argument.

    The reason why that matters is because leveling only needs to be done once. It doesn't matter how long it took to level to 60 in the current game, because you've already spent all those hours to level by now. No need to do it again. Once you're at max level the next thing to do was to raid, or meet raid requirements. Even the attunements made no sense as content unless you were doing them because you wanted to raid.

    You can still take a lot of time leveling from 1 to 120, but the lack of content argument is not about how long leveling takes. The OP is clearly not a new player complaining that the leveling lacks content.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    I can guarantee that people will die a lot more in WoW Classic than they ever do in BFA, in solo content. Because things were objectively tougher compared to players than now. It actually does make a difference when mobs hit for 3-4% of your total hp per swing, no matter how much people want to pretend that didn't happen.

    And then people like to pretend like accidental pulls didn't happen, or a mob running away at low health and (of course) your finishing move misses or still gets dodged.

    People like to pretend that mobs in Classic were the same as now, just with more hp. No, they hurt a lot more, take longer to kill, and remember that missing, or being dodged/parried/resisted actually was a thing. I also like mobs that are immune to certain type of damage, because of flavor. Can't poison a mech.
    The only reason people will die is because they are way to used to retail. It was never hard as long as you knew what you were doing. Tedious, yes. Hard, no.

  11. #431
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Land of the mighty moose, polar bears and fika.
    Posts
    6,009
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    The only reason people will die is because they are way to used to retail.
    I mean, what does that say about retail? Retail is designed so that you can faceroll almost everything outside of instances.

    It was never hard as long as you knew what you were doing. Tedious, yes. Hard, no.
    This sort of reasoning literally has no end, because it doesn't want to acknowledge that no matter how mechanically simple, high damage = you have to play carefully.

    If you "play perfectly", and play very defensively (only pull if you're 100% certain you won't accidentally pull another), and always have a potion ready, then yes you can probably get damn far without dying once. In practice this is not how things will play out.
    No matter how much you know about the game, if mobs hurt a lot with every swing (especially love fighting casters when you have no interrupts, spells hitting for 6-10% of your healthbar and you'll probably eat 3-4 of them), your resources feels very limited, enemies have a long aggro range, and you will still die a lot because of a lack of escape tools.

    It doesn't matter that it wasn't "mechanically hard" because you will many, many times, find yourself in situations were you won't be able to escape alive. Or you got cocky and thought you had enough hp to kill one more mob before you have to eat, but you get an unlucky string of misses/dodges and the mob crits you twice.

    Then it doesn't matter if "perfectly defensive play" would mean you would have survived. Mobs will flee, and you will for whatever reason be unable to kill it before it alerts more mobs, or you need to pull mobs backwards but a patrolling one happened to get too close, or maybe some mob has started to respawn in the area around you. You have little to no escape abilities as most classes, and you will end up dying. No matter how far we push this fallacy that perfect play = no deaths, it still doesn't change the fact that it is per definition harder than current WoW. Pretty much nothing of what I described above is ever relevant in modern WoW, because you are ridiculously powerful compared to mobs per default. Also modern WoW is pretty adamant that solo-pulls should always be possible, questing in gnoll areas you'll have to be careful not to pull a whole camp.

    So no, if we're using some sort of arbitrary measure for what is "hard" in difficulty, as in that only mechanics define difficulty, then yeah, Classic wasn't "hard". People are still going to die a lot because of a very different power ratio difference between players:mobs, and to me that is a measure of difficulty. If I don't need to pay attention to my healthbar, then that is, to me, less hard/difficult than when my warrior is getting pummeled by two mobs, with one of them stunning me for 2 seconds, or throwing a 10 second net at me. Hello, Redridge orcs.
    If I pull those particular orcs I have to run right away, no matter how good I am at the game. If the Outrunner decides to throw his net I am probably dead at that point.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2019-04-02 at 08:00 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The biggest challenge of WoW is designing for the many different audiences that play the game.
    Yeah, you're trying to satisfy players who doesn't even enjoy playing RPGs, and thus you're alienating those who do.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    LOL. Nothing was ever hard. Tedious does not = hard.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Spken like someone who is wearing nostalgia glasses. 6 months people will be leaving Classic in droves when people remember just how tedious and awful it was after the nostalgia wears off.
    6 months and people will still be leveling in Classic. That's the beauty of it. Classic is no more as tedious as retail is. The difference is the progression is much slower in classic. Unlike retail which is "instant" gratification, aka, dopamine release.

    A major difference between Classic & Retail is the end game experience. Classic, unlike retail, has a much more elongated end game.
    It's going to be great to see players actually out and about in the world again doing things other then racing through dailies.

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    A major difference between Classic & Retail is the end game experience. Classic, unlike retail, has a much more elongated end game.
    It's going to be great to see players actually out and about in the world again doing things other then racing through dailies.
    Such as? What were these players at max level doing in the world? I am curious to know.

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Such as? What were these players at max level doing in the world? I am curious to know.
    My current journey:

    Level a Monk exclusively in Random BG's (lvl 117 atm, with 50 BGs played in 3 days)
    Once at max level farm damage azerite pieces
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Keep doing random BGs

  15. #435
    I for one have a lot of fun just having an actual real life and a job and having WoW has my relaxing time. Pushing high keys, doing alt runs with my social casual mythic guild ( barely 4/8M atm ). Doing BGs together, all sorts of stuff. It's fun and reward to play with people you enjoy playing in voice chat and just laugh and have a good time. All posts like these to me stem from people who are like 30+yo and work part time and want an excuse to play WoW 14hours a day but cant find it cause they dont enjoy the game anymore. Great, quit then and shut up.

  16. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Jambalam View Post
    Game is focused on collecting pets, toys, mounts and transmog for casuals these days.

    Rip
    Cry me a river.

  17. #437
    Just came back to the game since leaving after Cata, after playing for years I found myself in the same boat as all the people on these forums moaning about having nothing to do or the game dying. Sorry to say but to those people, you just need to find some new games or something. There's tons of stuff to do in game, its not dying...you're just bored, which is natural after dumping hundreds of hours into one game.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    The only reason people will die is because they are way to used to retail. It was never hard as long as you knew what you were doing. Tedious, yes. Hard, no.
    Than you clearly never played vannila. I was playing in private realm and i fied like 5 times in starting zone even when i was carefull with mobs. And this comes from someone who hardcore raided till mop.

    Also your reasoning doesnt make sense. "it wasnt hard as long as you knew what you were doing"? Isnt it like with everything the game and life? I can also say mythic raiding isnt hard as long as people know what they are supostu do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HazySwayze View Post
    Just came back to the game since leaving after Cata, after playing for years I found myself in the same boat as all the people on these forums moaning about having nothing to do or the game dying. Sorry to say but to those people, you just need to find some new games or something. There's tons of stuff to do in game, its not dying...you're just bored, which is natural after dumping hundreds of hours into one game.
    Thing is there is difference between repetition and progression. 99% of game can be finished in 1 week. Than all you do is increasing difficulty and doing exact same content all over again. And this is where people stop playing. New difficulty isnt new content and people are not willing to put time into something what they have alredy killed in lfr for example. Back in vannila when you cleared raid you didnt increase difficulty you start progressing in whole new raid with new bosses. Concept of difficulty levels do not belong into mmorpg game.

  19. #439
    You only live twice Blizzard.

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    You mean the game that's slower than BFA in rotation (complaint about BFA A from the community.)
    Is nothing but a long ass grind (Complaint B from the community about BFA)
    Really has nothing to do outside of raids and Dungeons (Complaint C from BFA community)
    Balance is an absolute mess (Complaint D from BFA community)

    It's almost as if when you take pety emotions out of it wow complaints have been the same since day 1
    1) Really your gona compare rotation speed to classic lol
    2) A grind that matters, that makes you say i finally finished it unlike bfa where it moves the goalpost and makes everything you did before irrelevant.
    3) You make your own content with the people around you aka the community. Something that current wow lacks thanks to sharding, lfr and lfd
    4) In classic each class is imbalanced in its own way so its fun. In bfa classes are so over homogenized that the only imbalance is from damage numbers and that is boring, because of that there are no "i actually did that" moments.
    Last edited by Pancreatin; 2019-04-02 at 11:23 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •