Awful lot of people who are, ahem, "dissatisfied" with WoW nowadays...

[ToxicFlame]

Firstly, BfA isn't the first sign of trouble. WoW has been gradually on the decline for several years now (albeit some improvements during legion... which have now been reverted in BfA).

sure, there has always been some stuff people disliked but no other expansion caused such an exodus of players before.

Secondly, the problem is that WoW is 14 years old....and it's competing with new generation games that "blow it out of the park" in many aspects. Blizzard need to consider some serious major changes to their game if they want WoW to continue to be successful. Don't get me wrong... Blizzard have had a great streak with WoW, but no king rules forever. Without some major "positive" changes happening I just don't see WoW being remotely popular in the next 2-3 years. If the next xpac is anything like BfA I doubt WoW will be able to recover..

there really isn't any competition to wow. ffxiv or eso come closest i guess but they definitely do not "blow it out of the park". agree with the rest

[Ifeanychukwu]

And liking and/or enjoying the current content, however you slice it, is a very, very negative trait... on a WoW fan site.

I'm not trying to be snide or a smartass, just making an observation. It's just... unsettling. This really ain't a fan site anymore, you literally can't make a thread without the usual suspects coming in and shitting on your enjoyment you get out of your hobby. Is it just me or has MMO-C became the /pol/ of WoW?

Have you not been elsewhere on the internet? People are pretty unhappy with BFA everywhere. There's nothing wrong with people expressing their dissatisfaction with the game, especially when it's warranted.

[ToxicFlame]

Other way round: Do you stick with your gf or marriage after 10 years of fighting, bitching and bad sex?

so basically, if you complain now, you have disliked the entire game for 10 years?

Comparing WoW to leaving your country...hm...that is too extreme for me...and saying WoW has been "14 years of your life" (and not a small part...a hobby) is also pretty heavy stuff. Also...as I said...people were not happy for 14 years and suddenly they show problems with just one x-pac aka "first sign of trouble".

And on this forum, it actually are (a lot of) the same people over years.

mate you have to think about it this way, at this point there's 18-30 year olds where wow was their life for 50%+ of their lifetime not just a hobby. so yes it's heavy stuff because wow is such a big influence.
also why do you keep asuming people have been unhappy this entire time?

[Daikoku]

So basically if DET has ever had an argument with his fiancee, family or boss it mean he/she was disliking them from the beginning.


Mhh

[MrLachyG]

And liking and/or enjoying the current content, however you slice it, is a very, very negative trait... on a WoW fan site.

I'm not trying to be snide or a smartass, just making an observation. It's just... unsettling. This really ain't a fan site anymore, you literally can't make a thread without the usual suspects coming in and shitting on your enjoyment you get out of your hobby. Is it just me or has MMO-C became the /pol/ of WoW?

over half of the posts and threads you see on here are people who have unsubbed a while ago, possibly years, who always come out of the woodwork to voice their distaste for a game they no longer play, and are probably likely never to play again. and then you have the throwaway accounts who are just there to stir shit.

[Daikoku]

over half of the posts and threads you see on here are people who have unsubbed a while ago, possibly years, who always come out of the woodwork to voice their distaste for a game they no longer play, and are probably likely never to play again. and then you have the throwaway accounts who are just there to stir shit.

And other half are from people that are so addicted that they defending WoW no matter the criticism.

So basically we can't really have a discussion on this topic.

[Leodric]

*snip*

Very well said. 100% agree on that.

[ToxicFlame]

It is not what I said, so stop just placing a random interpretation on my words. You covered one end of the spectrum, I gave another extreme example.

it's exactly what you said.

This is why I added the last line, which you did in fact also quote: "And on this forum, it actually are (a lot of) the same people over years." I am here long enough so I don't have to be "assuming"

oh and you kept track of everyone complaining and exactly what each and every person was complaining about.

Again..it is not what I said. How can you interpret that from the line " Do you stick with your gf or marriage after 10 years of fighting, bitching and bad sex?". I try to word it differently: If your relationship, that was good for...say two years...slowly degraded into nothing but arguments and fighting over the following years. Would you stay in that relationship? Maybe even you searched help (aka "I gave feedback about the game") and it didn't work.

Sure, there are people who just have ONE thing that they dislike in BfA, but there are far more posts here (and have been over the years) that go "Game is shit, always has been shit"

because it explicitly implies that people who are bitching now have been doing so for 10 years.
Your entire premise just assumes that everyone that has complained about something here or there over a period of 10 YEARS has a mad case of stockholm syndrome going on and hasn't actually stopped playing a game they never enjoyed.

[Eleccybubb]

Have you not been elsewhere on the internet? People are pretty unhappy with BFA everywhere. There's nothing wrong with people expressing their dissatisfaction with the game, especially when it's warranted.

Exactly.

WoW isn't bad. It's current state is. So people will be critical.

The problem I find is that both the positive and negative extreme sides just want an echo chamber and it ends up drowning out any good discussion/criticism sometimes.

[Jyggalag]

That's fine if you think that way. My way of complaining would be just to simply discontinue my relationship, and/or find the proper channel to voice my concern to the people who could do something about it - i.e., OFFICIAL boards, emailing/tweeting to Devs, etc - instead of bitching on yet another vomit-worthy thread on MMO-Champ. My choice would never be to unsub AND THEN waste my time bitching, but every moron needs their vice, so more power to you if that's what you want to do.

So rather than accept that your analogy was way off you deflect the topic of conversation to the actual platform that people use to provide their feedback. Sad.

You do realize that you need an active sub to post feedback on the WoW official forums? Not everyone has twitter either. I don't, and I've no intention of going out of my way to create one (see "discontinue my relationship"). I've had an mmo champ account for years. It's for all opinions, those for and against the current iteration of the game. Don't think you can just shit on everyone that doesn't like it because you do. Blizzard themselves have said numerous times over the years that they read official fan sites. This is literally the largest one there is.

I enjoy the game. That doesn't mean I don't see any fault in it, because I do. But they haven't "changed the recipe to be absolutely garbage" either. Your analysis is that anyone who enjoys the game is a "Blizzard fanboi" and you need to convince them to see your side or call them names.

That's what you are. You can't accept the fact that the game used to be better for the majority of long term fans and go out of your way to defend Blizzard's decisions, despite admitting yourself that there may be "fault(s)", just because you enjoy it. You need to make everyone who has an opinion different from yours feel like they'd be taken just as seriously if they were standing outside McDonalds with a megaphone - like they're stupid for having it.

As a consumer, it's my job to choose whether to consume the product or not based on its offerings. And if I don't like it ENOUGH, then I will stop consuming it. It's the business' choice to change their product however they damn well please, and it's up to you to buy their product or not. I find enough positive to continue playing regularly. If you don't, that's fine. I don't give a shit and you're not going to change my opinion.

It's in the producer's interest to acknowledge and respond to feedback. Hell, it's the reason WoW is in the fucking state it's in today. The entitled attitude of the players who couldn't see past their own greed to appreciate meaningful character progression gave their feedback for years to get the game to a stage where you now enjoy it. If you're selling a product and you don't consider on-going feedback then you don't deserve any customers.

It's also in your interest as a customer who wants to keep consuming the product that they love to give feedback on how it's changed and they no longer enjoy it.

You choose to bitch on a message board, which is foolish as it's not going to change anything and only makes you look ridiculous for doing so.

You're literally coming here belittling people who are saying that the game has changed for the worse without any appreciation for their perspective given that the game's success was built from the monthly subscription paid for by these players most likely years before you ever registered an account. These people feel lost and upset that the characters they've invested hundreds of hours into over the course of the last decade are now only accessible through a dungeon and world quest theme park with diablo like loot systems.
MMO champion is a fan driven forum which serves as an outlet for these people who have time to kill because killing time in their once favorite game is literally so shit that they'd rather come here to complain than actually play it. The game is so shit that you are here defending it (poorly might I add) rather than playing it. Get a fucking life mate.

[ToxicFlame]

You're literally coming here belittling people who are saying that the game has changed for the worse without any appreciation for their perspective given that the game's success was built from the monthly subscription paid for by these players most likely years before you ever registered an account.

pot meet kettle.
While i agree with your points you are doing exactly the same thing by calling people who disagree with you fanboys

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

i'm not unhappy with BfA, but i do get a little bored sometimes. every character and alt has the same road to victory. i'm doing basically the same thing on my 407 rogue as i am on my 360 monk.

Legion's class stories are sorely missed right now, all the class specific stuff is.

[Jyggalag]

pot meet kettle.
While i agree with your points you are doing exactly the same thing by calling people who disagree with you fanboys

No, i'm calling him and people with his stance "fanbois". People are free to have a difference of opinion, i.e. I like the game because "X" or there's plenty to do such as "Y" without being fanbois. See my definition of a fanboi

That's what you are. You can't accept the fact that the game used to be better for the majority of long term fans and go out of your way to defend Blizzard's decisions, despite admitting yourself that there may be "fault(s)", just because you enjoy it. You need to make everyone who has an opinion different from yours feel like they'd be taken just as seriously if they were standing outside McDonalds with a megaphone - like they're stupid for having it.

[kamuimac]

i'm not unhappy with BfA, but i do get a little bored sometimes. every character and alt has the same road to victory. i'm doing basically the same thing on my 407 rogue as i am on my 360 monk.

Legion's class stories are sorely missed right now, all the class specific stuff is.

are you gonna claim that in ay previous expansion that path was any different ?

it always was level up farm up all hc dungeons gear then do 1 raid a week and farm up vp

im generaly curious what else did you do on alts back then that was different from current wow

[Leadsop]

So rather than accept that your analogy was way off you deflect the topic of conversation to the actual platform that people use to provide their feedback. Sad.

My analogy was fine, and I chose not to quantify your complaint with a response. Which I shouldn't do this time, either.

You do realize that you need an active sub to post feedback on the WoW official forums? Not everyone has twitter either. I don't, and I've no intention of going out of my way to create one (see "discontinue my relationship"). I've had an mmo champ account for years. It's for all opinions, those for and against the current iteration of the game. Don't think you can just shit on everyone that doesn't like it because you do. Blizzard themselves have said numerous times over the years that they read official fan sites. This is literally the largest one there is.

I didn't shit on anyone. Just their choice to bitch on a fansite that's not going to do any good. And I have had an MMO-Champ account for years as well, longer than you. Yes, opinions are fine. No problem with people's opinions. Big problem with misguided attempts to solve their opinions by bitching on the internet. It does nothing. There is a huge difference between feedback to the devs and incessant bitching. But fight for it if you must, if that's your hill to die on go for it.

That's what you are. You can't accept the fact that the game used to be better for the majority of long term fans and go out of your way to defend Blizzard's decisions, despite admitting yourself that there may be "fault(s)", just because you enjoy it. You need to make everyone who has an opinion different from yours feel like they'd be taken just as seriously if they were standing outside McDonalds with a megaphone - like they're stupid for having it.

No see, this is where you show your true idiocy. Just because I don't agree with you, you call me names. Just because I enjoy what I'm doing in WoW, you call me a "fanboi." I can't accept the "fact" that the game "used to be better for the majority of long-term fans" because I don't believe that it is necessarily any better or worse than it used to be. It is different than when I played in Beta. I have been a live subscriber for almost WoW's entire existence (I took a break during MoP). Like I said, I enjoy what I'm doing. It is much different than how I played 14 years ago, and also much different from 6 years ago, etc. That doesn't make it bad, just different. Are you saying that my opinion is invalid? Are you shitting on me (and others that do like it) by calling us names because you dont?

pot meet kettle.
While i agree with your points you are doing exactly the same thing by calling people who disagree with you fanboys

Oh, clearly you are doing that. I will continue.

It's in the producer's interest to acknowledge and respond to feedback. Hell, it's the reason WoW is in the fucking state it's in today. The entitled attitude of the players who couldn't see past their own greed to appreciate meaningful character progression gave their feedback for years to get the game to a stage where you now enjoy it. If you're selling a product and you don't consider on-going feedback then you don't deserve any customers.

I don't "now" enjoy it. I've always enjoyed it. I enjoy it differently now than I did when I started it during my senior year of college. I had more time then to do different things required in Vanilla and TBC. The experience is different now. And for the less time I have to play I'm fine with it.

It's also in your interest as a customer who wants to keep consuming the product that they love to give feedback on how it's changed and they no longer enjoy it.

Maybe. I send my share of complaints. I also understand that if I don't like something that I view as continually getting worse, it's probably not going to change for me for the better, and it's no longer worth my time. Like this conversation.

You're literally coming here belittling people who are saying that the game has changed for the worse without any appreciation for their perspective given that the game's success was built from the monthly subscription paid for by these players most likely years before you ever registered an account.

Check your lane. Beta. Vanilla. I'm over 300 days /played on my main.

And I'm not belittling anything other than the choice to incessantly bitch about something that isn't changing. I never belittled your opinion. In fact, I agreed that there are things I don't like as well. Give me attunements back, ffs... I enjoyed getting my Kara key maybe as much as anything I've done since. Fuck World Quests. Make loot more difficult. Get rid of freebie chests. Give me my keyring. Make my profession actually valuable like it was in TBC and WOTLK. Make gold hard to earn. Get rid of so many lockouts. Give me flying within a reasonable amount of time. Etc... etc... etc...

Get a fucking life mate.

You can heed your own advice if you're that willing to dole it out.

I'm done replying. If you choose to reply, go ahead, but don't expect a response from me.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

are you gonna claim that in ay previous expansion that path was any different ?

it always was level up farm up all hc dungeons gear then do 1 raid a week and farm up vp

im generaly curious what else did you do on alts back then that was different from current wow

no, you're right it was basically this. but in legion it had things related to the class that weren't just raid this, get loot. like the way early days of leveling a lock or a paladin just for the mount quest. so while i was doing the same world quests i was doing on my main, there were other things that made me want to stay on that alt and do stuff. today, i log in if there is an azerite reward emissary that pops up then im done.

i like lore, i know its fubar in this game, but all of those Legion class quests were lore.

[sam86]

i like lore, i know its fubar in this game, but all of those Legion class quests were lore.

in current lore
wc3 had best lore in wow history, retconned all old crap and made a very solid established lore, wow rpg books solidified it even further, even vanilla wow had a 'good' lore (good since it didn't change anything major)
then from TBC we started to get some buffling decisions, of illidan and (specially) kael be EBIL because we complained vanilla bosses we had no attachment to them, to wrath were everyone and their grandpa can be a DK, not to mention how Arthas we loved for never losing against all odds, is losing when odds are already in his favor? to cata with afkwing and so on
Don't get it wrong, there are many good addition to lore, the problem is bad ones were mostly ignored, illidan story wasn't even fixed until legion with the worst writer ever, kael until now don't make sense, and oh god WoD 'lore' that is blasphemy
BFA is almost WoD lvl, it still didn't reach the idea of legion one and same across all universes but still close

I love wow lore, i memorized it by heart, BFA is first exp ever i don't care about reading about lore, even WoD I was still reading, but BFA just.. f8ck it i give up, i'm too old now for that

[shadowmatrix]

not to mention how Arthas we loved for never losing against all odds, is losing when odds are already in his favor?

What version of W3 did you play? Arthas losing in Warcraft 3 is what led him to take up Frostmourne. Yeah he beat some undead but he failed to stop the plague.

[Dormie]

The game is fine. Outrage culture is just rampant. Hating something makes you seem more knowledgeable than not hating it.

[sam86]

What version of W3 did you play? Arthas losing in Warcraft 3 is what led him to take up Frostmourne. Yeah he beat some undead but he failed to stop the plague.

the same one where Arthas won every fight he had, he lost (if u want to say that) because of everyone else incompetence, imagine if instead of Uther cowering away or Jaina actually don't deny him (as she promised) and helped him in Northrend
He was desperate because everyone else fail in their war, not him, which fight did he lose ?
Also from the point he picked Frostmorne, he didn't lose at all, not even when he was horribly depowered against a full power Illidan (the lich king did give him a little boost, but still overall power was too low)