Awful lot of people who are, ahem, "dissatisfied" with WoW nowadays...

[Queen of Hamsters]

That's because the people who are happy tend to stfu and play.

I slog the forums because I spend an awful lot of time "almost at the computer", aka can't commit to anything like a game since I'm rearing to do something else. If I didn't have that, you wouldn't find me on the forums other than for the World first race and new expansion hype. I've been more dissatisfied with BfA than I was Legion, and I voice my concerns for sure. Mostly through in-game feedback when I'm in-game though.

Putting the usual suspects on Ignore is rather effective, always funny though how the first response to any thread, negative or positive, is one of those white-out posters. 1 in particular as of late, posting their one catchphrase.

These forums have been an echo chamber for the same crowd of usual suspects since I registered. It won't change anytime soon, since those people seem inherently incapable of just moving on. You see pretty quickly that it's the same crowd of people posting the same points over and over. Over the past 9 years, WoW/Blizzard was never NOT accused of the following:

- Being dumbed down
- Dying
- Designed for X group that isn't the peon launching a complaint
- Having nothing to do
- Not being fun/rewarding

Etc etc. And guess what? The game's still around. If people have been leaving in droves (which some always use as a weight to their argument without data), then it sure as hell ain't showing across any of my servers.

[munkeyinorbit]

And liking and/or enjoying the current content, however you slice it, is a very, very negative trait... on a WoW fan site.

I'm not trying to be snide or a smartass, just making an observation. It's just... unsettling. This really ain't a fan site anymore, you literally can't make a thread without the usual suspects coming in and shitting on your enjoyment you get out of your hobby. Is it just me or has MMO-C became the /pol/ of WoW?

It is pretty simple. Those who dislike the game now need to convince themselves that they are right. Any other view is an attack on them personally so they have to defend themselves. The way they do this is to shit on anyone with an opposing view. Your opinion on mmo-c being very much like /Pol is valid,

[Torvald]

WoW has numerous aspects to it, so a person complaining about one aspect does not mean that there aren't other aspects they enjoy. This gets even more complicated when you realize that one particular aspect is independent of the game, but linked through the game - your in-game friends / guild / connections. Even when the game is in a bad general state, WoW may remain the single best multiplayer game that gets all of you online, together, at the same time, pursing a shared goal. This can negate the problems in the current expansion to an astounding degree, while still leaving justification for complaining about the state of a current expansion.

Of course, on top of that, people can emphasize playing different parts depending on what's being handled better or worse. If you've enjoyed both PvE and PvP in the past, and think PvE is being handled horribly, maybe now's the time you switch your focus up to PvP (or vice versa). WoW also always has an element of "busy work" with it in every expansion too, and sometimes when people aren't enjoying an expansion, they weirdly start to do those activities. Like, "well, I'm not really having that much fun, might as well use this time to farm resources, play the auction house, and build up my gold reserves." Or, "well, I'm not enjoying high end PvP or PvE, and I had been meaning for years to try out some new classes, maybe now's a good time to level up one of these new allied races on a class I've never played before." It's not that they enjoy the snooze-fest, 1-2 button rotation (typically) that is leveling, but they figure they might as well do it at a time when they're not enjoying what else the game has to offer.

[Pancreatin]

It is pretty simple. Those who dislike the game now need to convince themselves that they are right. Any other view is an attack on them personally so they have to defend themselves. The way they do this is to shit on anyone with an opposing view. Your opinion on mmo-c being very much like /Pol is valid,

It is pretty simple. Those who are still play bfa need to convince themself that its a good expansion. Any other view is an attack on them personally so they have to defend themselves. The way they do that is to shit on anyone with an opposing view.

[Soon-TM]

Boy you're optimistic. 2-3 years....ok. Really hope you don't end up in a feeder guild or worse a leader of a feeder guild. Nostalgia can be cruel. Wait you rolled a pally and want to dps in classic LOL heal and be a buff battery.

If you didn't do your homework and learned what can and cannot do pallies in Vanilla, it's your own damn fault. If you roll the toughest class with very strong heals and some of the best utility in the game, and yet expect to top DPS charts, it's your own damn fault. L2 RPG, aka every class having strengths and weaknesses.

OT: apparently, whining about the game is bad, but whining about whining is good. Mods pl0x

[munkeyinorbit]

It is pretty simple. Those who are still play bfa need to convince themself that its a good expansion. Any other view is an attack on them personally so they have to defend themselves. The way they do that is to shit on anyone with an opposing view.

And here is another example. Instead of constructing a coherent argument, this poster has decided to attack. This is common for people who cannot bear to read opposing views.

[Tradu]

I think the streamers do WoW no good service. Think about people like asmongold or Preach. They are the ones that bring all the negativity into the community.

Nope, that would be the devs. Shit communication and shit decisions are the problem, not people voicing their opinions on them.

[Feralheart]

To a lot of people, WoW isn't just a game, it's essentially a hobby within a hobby (gaming) and/or an escape. Something they could always jump into and have some measure of fun. There's a lot of people who has been thoroughly alienated from WoW's current design, even though they've tried to hold on even throughout WoD, Legion (slight improvement at least), and BFA (the nail in the coffin).

They still want to enjoy the game but the game's design paradigm has shifted too much. A lot of people have stayed subbed and played even when they weren't having much fun, just like it's tough to give up other hobbies you're in a way "invested" in. It's not the same as no longer booting up a singleplayer game you've played through 12 times on Steam.

Those of us who has been playing since the days of classic, BC, LK, and in some ways even Cata/MoP, has seen the game very slowly but noticeably change to something unfamiliar and unfun. It's nowhere near the same game, even though a lot of systems are similar. But it's actually hard to tell exactly what it is that has changed so much. Why do I care so little about any BFA dungeon, but have so much fun playing through Westfall on a private realm, to spend a lot of time in DM, most likely not even getting a drop for my trouble? Because you aren't stuck in Godmode, you care about what's in your inventory, any green upgrade you find makes a difference in how well you perform.

Modern WoW has tried to exclude human psychology from it's players. It's trying to somehow override the fact that people don't care about a high level item, if that item doesn't fit into a bigger whole and you didn't actually do anything in particular to get it. I bonus-rolled and got some upgraded item from a world boss I zerged while barely paying attention. I can't even remember what slot it's in now, because it makes no difference.

If you know where to look, there are quests in classic you could do while they are 5+ levels above you and grant you a very powerful (for your current level) weapon. The reason that reward is so inticing, is because the game world is usually dangerous if you're not prepared (bandages, foods, potions). You will truly notice the difference if you get that weapon. However, if you are two-shotting mobs regardless that item doesn't even matter.

In contrast to Live, where you are overpowered by default. The only place within BFA where your gear actually makes some sort of tangible difference, is high M+ and premade raiding. Everywhere else, you are a winner just by participating. This does not actually foster the same sense of satisfaction from clearing something, and climbing the power progression ladder. I've had more fun getting my private realm warrior to 20, than all of BFA. I can't name a BFA dungeon boss even if you dangled money in front of me. Because I just teleported into that dungeon and zerged the boss without really caring about any of what was going on, I mean we're going to win within 20 minutes regardless. 'Cept the second last boss of, the guy who does mind controls and you have to avoid orbs... well I've forgotten the name of the dungeon.

I can spend 5 minutes flying somewhere, killing some easily soloable "elite", and get a gear upgrade.. but that gear upgrade doesn't matter. The most important aspect of MMORPGs, wanting to become stronger, is dead in BFA. At least to me, because I don't enjoy what has essentially become the only real places with some semblance of progression, premade raids and m+. Everything else is a theme park with free entrance fees and everyone is a winner just by attending. The entire rest of the game is just there to catapult you to the very endgame. And don't forget, that once the new content patch is out, 95% of what you've done is made completely irrelevant anyway.

Tl;dr
WoW has forgotten how to MMORPG, and a lot of people feel alienated.

This sums it up perfectly. I'm interested to see what happens to retail after the release of classic - I think there will be a massive amount of people coming back to WoW, and a lot of younger people who weren't around originally to experience it. I wonder if this informs Blizzard's design choices going forward in retail or not.

[Tradu]

That's because the people who are happy tend to stfu and play.

I slog the forums because I spend an awful lot of time "almost at the computer", aka can't commit to anything like a game since I'm rearing to do something else. If I didn't have that, you wouldn't find me on the forums other than for the World first race and new expansion hype. I've been more dissatisfied with BfA than I was Legion, and I voice my concerns for sure. Mostly through in-game feedback when I'm in-game though.

Putting the usual suspects on Ignore is rather effective, always funny though how the first response to any thread, negative or positive, is one of those white-out posters. 1 in particular as of late, posting their one catchphrase.

I lost faith in that actually achieving anything many years ago. I still report bugs and stuff in-game, but that's about it. My feedback goes here, on twitter, on reddit or nowhere at all. Not that it feel less pointless out of game, really, but at least there's people to interact with there, unlike in-game feedback and direct communication from Blizzard(through blogposts or whatever).

[Muajin76]

I think it's the dissatisfication with the direction the game is going, the laziness of the devs *aside from the art team..they do a pretty good job!* the management..etc
The game isn't geared towards fun anymore, merely for profits.

[Tradu]

This sums it up perfectly. I'm interested to see what happens to retail after the release of classic - I think there will be a massive amount of people coming back to WoW, and a lot of younger people who weren't around originally to experience it. I wonder if this informs Blizzard's design choices going forward in retail or not.

Maybe if the live devs give Classic a try they'll realize that actually tons of things weren't on the GCD in Vanilla and revert the GCD change.

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Here is the interesting thing. People know bfa is bad and once ONE poster starts a *bfa sucks..its a dumpster fire that got pushed out prematurely* everyone hops on the bandwagon. The multiple threads that say the same thing, bfa sucks. *ok....i think i'm going to unsub during bfa and come back in 8.2* why not just unsub and not say you're unsubbing. It's like you're just wanting attention and announce here that you are not playing during this expac cuz it's so bad.

I assume the idea is that maybe Blizzard will notice if enough people do it and actually change. Now I doubt that'll happen, Blizzard is too stubborn and proud for that, but I can sort of see the logic behind it.

[Redroniksre]

Those of us who has been playing since the days of classic, BC, LK, and in some ways even Cata/MoP, has seen the game very slowly but noticeably change to something unfamiliar and unfun. It's nowhere near the same game, even though a lot of systems are similar. But it's actually hard to tell exactly what it is that has changed so much. Why do I care so little about any BFA dungeon, but have so much fun playing through Westfall on a private realm, to spend a lot of time in DM, most likely not even getting a drop for my trouble? Because you aren't stuck in Godmode, you care about what's in your inventory, any green upgrade you find makes a difference in how well you perform...

I have been playing since Vanilla and i do not mind the direction the game has been going. People act like this is a new path WoW is taking but every single expansion has pushed it in this direction. To complain about it you have to place blame on BC, WotLK, Cata and so on. The game is simply changing for the industry and greater market, as opposed to the really (now) niche market of old school MMOs.

I wouldn't really praise vanilla loot either, it was terribly designed. I think there are even BiS lists out there right now for classic that have some lvl 40 blues as being good all the way to Naxx. That is terrible design.

[Miff]

It's like the people who dislike McDonald's.

Do you just - not go back to McDonald's?

Or do you drive to McDonald's, sit outside the restaurant with a megaphone, and yell and scream about how you don't like it and why other people are dipshits for going there?

If you do the second one, you're a complete fucking moron, yet that's what people think MMO-Champ is for.

literally this... this a million times.

[MoanaLisa]

I don't think this is really any worse than the first six months of Cataclysm (random heroics where everyone was being one-shot) or later on in Cataclysm (ZA/ZG for months) or even later on in Cataclysm (Dragon Soul, the chin-scratching, toe-tapping raid) or the first six or eight months of Mists (gated layers of dailies) or Warlords (pretty much all of it after the first six months).

People love to complain.

The year of "removing flying" prior to Warlords was, if anything, worse.

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literally this... this a million times.

Yeah, people should learn to let go.

[kamuimac]

I've spent over 10 thousand hours in this game since it launched and I just cannot force myself to enjoy BfA. Had a few weeks of 7/10 fun but then it all disappeared. I've quit before but it was because I didn't really have the time to play. Now I had almost 3 months of sub and I didn't even log in because I felt like there was nothing interesting to do and no long term goals to accomplish.

and you think BfA is the problem

sweet jezus how much you people play ?

and you wonder you are getting burned out

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Maybe if the live devs give Classic a try they'll realize that actually tons of things weren't on the GCD in Vanilla and revert the GCD change.

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I assume the idea is that maybe Blizzard will notice if enough people do it and actually change. Now I doubt that'll happen, Blizzard is too stubborn and proud for that, but I can sort of see the logic behind it.

i literaly cannot wait for classic to launch

so people could see how game sucked back then - instead listening to people speaking nonsense on forums how magical experience it was.

i bet you that most of people will quit in first 30 levels - because how shocking slow and unfun leveling alone was.

have fun looking for your "no gcd" during leveling . especialy that classic wont even have abilities/spells quing on top of huge gcd.

[Daikoku]

I think the streamers do WoW no good service. Think about people like asmongold or Preach. They are the ones that bring all the negativity into the community.

They are countered by people like Toweliee and Taliesin that are a bit too much "WOW IS NICE STOP COMPLAIN"

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It's like the people who dislike McDonald's.

Do you just - not go back to McDonald's?

Or do you drive to McDonald's, sit outside the restaurant with a megaphone, and yell and scream about how you don't like it and why other people are dipshits for going there?

If you do the second one, you're a complete fucking moron, yet that's what people think MMO-Champ is for.

what a stupid comparison


you assume wow was like mcdonald since day 1 instead of becoming over 15years





Maybe is like going to your favourite resturants of the last 15 years and start complain for things on the menu you don't like? what about this?

[Gaidax]

And liking and/or enjoying the current content, however you slice it, is a very, very negative trait... on a WoW fan site.

I'm not trying to be snide or a smartass, just making an observation. It's just... unsettling. This really ain't a fan site anymore, you literally can't make a thread without the usual suspects coming in and shitting on your enjoyment you get out of your hobby. Is it just me or has MMO-C became the /pol/ of WoW?

There is a bunch of tards in MMO-C who despite thumping their chest that they are unsubbed for years, keep trolling the forums talking about bull they seen on some video and have no clue about themselves.

Why they are doing it? No clue, it’s some vengeful ex thing or something. People need to learn to let go.

[Lurker1]

And liking and/or enjoying the current content, however you slice it, is a very, very negative trait... on a WoW fan site.

I'm not trying to be snide or a smartass, just making an observation. It's just... unsettling. This really ain't a fan site anymore, you literally can't make a thread without the usual suspects coming in and shitting on your enjoyment you get out of your hobby. Is it just me or has MMO-C became the /pol/ of WoW?

I still find BFA fun so i still play it i know shocking concept.

[Eleccybubb]

And liking and/or enjoying the current content, however you slice it, is a very, very negative trait... on a WoW fan site.

I'm not trying to be snide or a smartass, just making an observation. It's just... unsettling. This really ain't a fan site anymore, you literally can't make a thread without the usual suspects coming in and shitting on your enjoyment you get out of your hobby. Is it just me or has MMO-C became the /pol/ of WoW?

Nop.

You are free to enjoy WoW. Just as people are free to criticise it. If you don't like that then forums are not a place for you.

This is of course excluding both sides that take it to the extreme.

[czarek]

And liking and/or enjoying the current content, however you slice it, is a very, very negative trait... on a WoW fan site.

I'm not trying to be snide or a smartass, just making an observation. It's just... unsettling. This really ain't a fan site anymore, you literally can't make a thread without the usual suspects coming in and shitting on your enjoyment you get out of your hobby. Is it just me or has MMO-C became the /pol/ of WoW?

There is the answer...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Ppl just love it and hate it at the same time.