View Poll Results: Do you think 8.2 will save BfA?

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  • Yes

    30 9.40%
  • No

    124 38.87%
  • Maybe

    80 25.08%
  • The question should have been would next xpack saves WOW

    85 26.65%
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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    WoW can't be 'saved' in its current regime. But it also can't get any worse to be honest, there's only uphill from here.
    Your response is riddled with confusion. First off it doesn't need saving. More people enjoy it than don't. Second, did you know the saying of things being "uphill" means things will be difficult. It makes no sense in the context you use it. I imagine you meant "things can only go up from here" or something like that, not that it will be difficult going forward.

  2. #82
    Old God Low Hanging Fruit's Avatar
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    I have my doubts. The way I see the people I know that come and go work (as in from the guild and friends list so subjective to MY perspective) is they come in for the expansion. If it hooks them they stick around, maybe leave, but pop back up on the patches for a while in between. BFA didn't hook them. Most of those people I know bounced around the time Uldir released and most of them haven't shown up much since. BFA just had no hook for them.

  3. #83
    The Lightbringer crakerjack's Avatar
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    I'm excited for the new raid/mega dungeon, but outside of that there really isn't much to get excited about.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  4. #84
    Nothing will save BfA or WoW - because the problem isn't BfA or WoW.
    "Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest - and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure, it's not your fault"
    Donald J. Trump - 6:37PM, 8th May 2013

  5. #85
    They haven't announced anything of substance yet. Literally nothing. Just big promises of how this, that and the other will get better, this time for sure!
    I lost all faith in Blizzard after WoD, I somewhat regained a little faith again after Legion, there is absolutely 0 trust and faith left after BFA. Nothing they say, promise or acknowledge has any meaning anymore. Either they do something or they don't - and since they haven't done anything yet; no, I don't see 8.2 changing anything.

    Knowing Blizzard 8.2 will be another stubborn, short-sighted and ultimately flawed shot at making Azerite at least somewhat. We'll get a dungeon (which will get old in 2 weeks), we'll get a new raid (which will get old in 3 weeks), we'll get a new landmass filled with boring worldquests (which will get old in a day) and we'll get a new warfront/island (which will already be old when it's released).

    Other than that, the game will still revolve around getting as many people as possible to play through Legion content so they can unlock new races to then play through classic content. Also pet battles, and tmog, and worldquests of course, all the worldquests in the world. Quality content doesn't matter anymore, quantity content is where it's at, 8.2 won't change that because Blizzard won't change.

  6. #86
    Scarab Lord Maxrokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Nothing will save BfA or WoW - because the problem isn't BfA or WoW.
    So the playerbase?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    So the playerbase?
    Not all of it ... if Blizzard can go back to building games and stop listening to the vocal minority, then the game might be saved.
    "Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest - and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure, it's not your fault"
    Donald J. Trump - 6:37PM, 8th May 2013

  8. #88
    The Insane Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    BFA is a lost cause. Many of us realized this 1 month in and decided to not waste our time on something that'll die out fast and be replaced.
    Blizzard will use classic as a strong buffer to rework wow and develop the next expansion.

    I wouldn't be shocked at all if the next expansion mimics the ideal of "wow" being a world again and not just raids that your port to and zone in.
    All the mechanics of "daily this, weekly that, endless progression ,etc" will all be removed. The design of the game will get back to what it was upon classic release. A GAME... not a money printing machine.
    Idk, there will still be 14-16 months of the expansion left after it releases. Thats plenty of time to save the expansion. MoP was rough at launch, and 5.2 imo along with a good 5.4 saved MoP and its not in my top 2-3 expansions.

  9. #89
    The Lightbringer Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razzako View Post
    WoW 2.0 is not the solution so long as the design philosophy doesn't change dramatically.
    Indeed. If a hypothethic WoW2 is designed with the same mindset and/or by the same folks who came with BfA... It will be a waste of development money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    Thrall will humblebrag about how he doesn't want it [to be Warchief].
    Saurfang'll probably die or say he's 'too tired'.
    Baine will gasp for air as he plops Anduin's boot out of his mouth and say 'I'll be High King of the Horde!'.

  10. #90
    BFA died 6 months ago.

    At this point in the game's lifecycle, the launch has to go well for an expansion to be a success. BFA's was an unqualified disaster.

    Part of the issue is everyone was overly positive about Legion as a contrast to WoD, but I think Legion started everyone down the path to burnout, and when people saw more grindy artifact systems in BFA, they just said, "Nope" and bailed.

    I will stick to my final analysis of Legion - in some ways Legion was the best expansion I've ever played because it had a ton of raiding content and mythic plus was really fun. In other ways I absolutely couldn't stand it - legendaries and AP were shit, and the stupid flying achieve was a pain in the ass, daily quests were stupid as hell, there was waaayyy too much power creep - and I ended up unsubbed way longer than even in WoD.

    The devs weren't able to see this, and they basically tried to release carbon copies of Legion systems, but made them worse - Legion's mythic dungeons are horrendous because they're full of annoying trash, and they pruned so many abilities that it's just a huge pain in the ass, and AP... sucks. This, to me, is the big issue with the devs - they're just really, really bad at anticipating what players want.
    Last edited by Tonus; 2019-04-03 at 03:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  11. #91
    8.2 is the final blow. Le Grand Finale.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Idk, there will still be 14-16 months of the expansion left after it releases.
    That's a scary thought. People quit BFA so quickly that they will have been gone for years by the time the next expansion comes out, meaning it's going to be harder than ever to get them back. People popped in and out of Legion and WoD all the time, but BFA was so bad that everyone just bailed basically instantaneously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  13. #93
    many of this issues of bfa are long standing issues with WoW since wrath.
    >epics tossed out like candy and ruined their meaning
    >killed normal and heroic dungeons
    >lfd / lfr - helped bring the downfall of the community by taking out another avenue that made people engage in the MMO in MMOrpg
    >slowly killed off the RPG in mmoRPG by doing such things as removing ammo from hunters, needing to feed pet for happiness, mats for certain abilities like light feathers for slow fall, stuff that gave a certain RPG element to classes
    >class homogenization made classes feel lifeless. removed certain class "bling" by giving them to other classes starting with shaman by giving mages a blood lust ability
    >made professions nearly worthless. practically killed jewelry and inscription
    >destroyed the talent tree system all in the name of wanting to stop "cookie cutter builds and have more variety in players builds so everyone wouldn't be running around with the same build for their spec." which failed miserably as everyone runs around with cookie cutter builds and most people use the same build for their spec. all they achieved was ruining the leveling experience and gave people who enjoyed theorycrafting less to do. if anything most specs now just have one or two builds while before with pre-cata tree each spec had more than one or two builds even if most people just used one or two of the most popular builds.
    >did i mention they butchered leveling? getting rid of class trainers and the destruction of the talent tree helped make leveling more boring than it was.
    >many of the things i stated where for "quaility of life" improvements that just ended up taking life out of the game and made it boring. removing ammo from hunters for "QoL" took, as stupid as it sounds, as ridiculous as it sounds, just life away. and its utterly pathetic that ammo for hunters would even be considered life but that's the state of WoW. it was one of the things we had and blizzard took it away WITHOUT GIVING US A REPLACEMENT.
    >slowly killed off other capitals and forcing everyone to either orgrimmar - stormwind because some how taking the five minutes to put things like transmog vendor in ironforge costs a raid tier
    >story has been shredded and pooped on so horribly it makes you want to leave the game sooner if you try to pay attention to it.
    >faction balance is just awful.
    >its one thing to prune, its another to prune to the point it caused classes that already felt bland due to homogenization, feel even worse. then toss in "bring the player, not the class" to add more insult to injury. it further helped make classes feel dull. and it didn't help that some classes where only sought after because of their bling. take that away and not fix the class made it well yeah, the player, but the class is so awful its not worth it. which meant that it didn't fix their issue of wanting "bring the player, not the class."
    >players, and toxic guilds care about minuscule 1% damage increases. even if one talent is 0.5% over the other, that 0.5% will be default and taken. goes right back to the talent tree debacle reasoning and to "bring the player, not the class" dilemma.
    >catch up system ironically makes content irrelevant which leads to people complaining about lack of things to do. also helps make gear feel worthless as it took you months of farming raids and content to get something that some new player or alt gets without the effort that you put in due to a catch up system.
    >talent decisions also don't matter much anymore when there are talents to actually debate about when you can swap them at will without penalty or repercussion. same go for spec swapping.
    >hybrid gear, strength swapping to intellect, extra helps improve QoL but also adds yet another form of content to work on meaningless. especially without a replacement.
    >making previous expansion content irreverent helps kill content that people can do. like raids. when a new expansion comes out, the previous raids are irreverent outside transmog / achievements. same goes when a new raid comes out, with the catch up system, makes the previous raids IN THE CURRENT EXPANSION IRREVERENT. thus, content players can do IRREVERENT. for a short while i use to play perfect world and apart of the leveling experience where raids. why not make previous raids apart of the leveling experience? even if you downsize the player count and difficultly. don't just abandon raids, dungeons and such. don't waste content you spent months on working.
    >add challenges similar to the challenges in path of exile during the leveling process. bring back mandatory class quests again to get certain stuff. there was absolutely nothing wrong with needing to do a class quest to obtain your class mount. or an ability.

    and bfa did nothing to fix any of those things. just amplified them and made them worse.
    Last edited by muffinss; 2019-04-03 at 06:01 AM.

  14. #94
    The Insane Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muffinss View Post
    many of this issues of bfa are long standing issues with WoW since wrath.
    >epics tossed out like candy and ruined their meaning
    >killed normal and heroic dungeons
    >lfd / lfr - helped bring the downfall of the community by taking out another avenue that made people engage in the MMO in MMOrpg
    >slowly killed off the RPG in mmoRPG by doing such things as removing ammo from hunters, needing to feed pet for happiness, mats for certain abilities like light feathers for slow fall, stuff that gave a certain RPG element to classes
    >class homogenization made classes feel lifeless. removed certain class "bling" by giving them to other classes starting with shaman by giving mages a blood lust ability
    >made professions nearly worthless. practically killed jewelry and inscription
    >destroyed the talent tree system all in the name of wanting to stop "cookie cutter builds and have more variety in players builds so everyone wouldn't be running around with the same build for their spec." which failed miserably as everyone runs around with cookie cutter builds and most people use the same build for their spec. all they achieved was ruining the leveling experience and gave people who enjoyed theorycrafting less to do. if anything most specs now just have one or two builds while before with pre-cata tree each spec had more than one or two builds even if most people just used one or two of the most popular builds.
    >did i mention they butchered leveling? getting rid of class trainers and the destruction of the talent tree helped make leveling more boring than it was.
    >many of the things i stated where for "quaility of life" improvements that just ended up taking life out of the game and made it boring. removing ammo from hunters for "QoL" took, as stupid as it sounds, as ridiculous as it sounds, just life away. and its utterly pathetic that ammo for hunters would even be considered life but that's the state of WoW. it was one of the things we had and blizzard took it away WITHOUT GIVING US A REPLACEMENT.
    >slowly killed off other capitals and forcing everyone to either orgrimmar - stormwind because some how taking the five minutes to put things like transmog vendor in ironforge costs a raid tier
    >story has been shredded and pooped on so horribly it makes you want to leave the game sooner if you try to pay attention to it.
    >faction balance is just awful.
    >its one thing to prune, its another to prune to the point it caused classes that already felt bland due to homogenization, feel even worse. then toss in "bring the player, not the class" to add more insult to injury. it further helped make classes feel dull. and it didn't help that some classes where only sought after because of their bling. take that away and not fix the class made it well yeah, the player, but the class is so awful its not worth it. which meant that it didn't fix their issue of wanting "bring the player, not the class."
    >players, and toxic guilds care about minuscule 1% damage increases. even if one talent is 0.5% over the other, that 0.5% will be default and taken. goes right back to the talent tree debacle reasoning and to "bring the player, not the class" dilemma.
    >catch up system ironically makes content irrelevant which leads to people complaining about lack of things to do. also helps make gear feel worthless as it took you months of farming raids and content to get something that some new player or alt gets without the effort that you put in due to a catch up system.
    >talent decisions also don't matter much anymore when there are talents to actually debate about when you can swap them at will without penalty or repercussion. same go for spec swapping.
    >hybrid gear, strength swapping to intellect, extra helps improve QoL but also adds yet another form of content to work on meaningless. especially without a replacement.
    >making previous expansion content irreverent helps kill content that people can do. like raids. when a new expansion comes out, the previous raids are irreverent outside transmog / achievements. same goes when a new raid comes out, with the catch up system, makes the previous raids IN THE CURRENT EXPANSION IRREVERENT. thus, content players can do IRREVERENT. for a short while i use to play perfect world and apart of the leveling experience where raids. why not make previous raids apart of the leveling experience? even if you downsize the player count and difficultly. don't just abandon raids, dungeons and such. don't waste content you spent months on working.
    >add challenges similar to the challenges in path of exile during the leveling process. bring back mandatory class quests again to get certain stuff. there was absolutely nothing wrong with needing to do a class quest to obtain your class mount. or an ability.

    and bfa did nothing to fix any of those things. just amplified them and made them worse.
    I'll read this if you fix the wall of text.

    Btw I don't really agree that people popped in and out of WoD. It had a day resurgence in 6.2, but it was dead all but maybe 3 or 4 months of the expansion.

  15. #95
    What Blizzard needs to do to save WoW/BfA/9.0:

    1) Limit Titanforging so that items can TF only once, but with a somewhat major ilvl upgrade (+20 ilvl). Additionally add in the option to manually TF items by spending AP. Possibly even limit Titanforging to only specific item types like weapons and main armor pieces. In this design AP is only used in manual Titanforging and only one or two AP bars can be stored. After spending the AP you have to grind it again but it has always a balanced amount of AP required (no growth).

    2) Make classes fun to play without external modifiers from items so that such items can be introduced later. Basically look at MoP/WoD class design.

    3) Add in a spec specific "Class Trinket" which would serve as an additional form of alternative advancement. The basic item would be a lot like WoD HFC Class Trinkets, so that you need only 1 Trinket per character. But wait, there is more! When the expansion launches you'd get the Basic Trinket as a quest reward from a max level class specific storyline and in patch content it will be possible to upgrade this item by adding in secondary mechanics. These would be unlocked by doing quests so you can choose how you would like to unlock your upgrades (not force people into raiding or M+). But quests would be exclusive to one type of content of your choosing. There would be the possibility to unlock just one or maybe two secondary mechanics per major patch so the item wouldn't get completely ridiculous. Achieving this upgrade would be your main or main goals in the patch cycle.

    3) Most other items would be pretty basic, no Tier sets, because the mechanics are in the Class Trinket system. Only the second Trinket slot and some weapons would have procs. Items for the most part would be What You See Is What You Get. (Main stats & secondaries)

    4) Revert all GCD changes, and instead fix the core issue, limit macroing abilities and items together. Simple. They probably should allow mouseover etc. macros only.

    5) for M+ make trash somewhat irrelevant but make bosses more important just as it should be in a dungeon, classic design.

    6) for opening world, add in multi-phase world events much like Legion launch event. Let a zone go completely crazy.

    7) for PvP add in a PvP vendor. (No really I don't do PvP so don't know about it's current situation.)

    They don't even have to touch raiding, just keep doing what you do..

    And suddenly WoW is saved and entering it's 2nd Golden Age!

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    I'll read this if you fix the wall of text.

    Btw I don't really agree that people popped in and out of WoD. It had a day resurgence in 6.2, but it was dead all but maybe 3 or 4 months of the expansion.
    well its up to you if you want to read it or not.

  17. #97
    World of Warcraft isn't the problem, neither is BFA, internet is. Be an adult, you don't like what you do anymore ? Do something else.

  18. #98
    Mechagnome Alkizon's Avatar
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by dragothica View Post
    --- snip ---
    1) Rather - delete completely. Alternative is to make it absolutely insignificant (within 1/2 levels, or without level increasing = without increasing basic stats, but only a slight increase in secondary ones (characteristics), and this should be completely controlled by players (some currency/professions, anything, but not RNG)).
    2) MoP is decent, WoD isn't, but better something middle of WotLK/BC (talents system are metter, not specs = perks one).
    3) No, no, no, NO! Better add back 3d weapon slot to make back universal equipment system... which would entail a more universal talents component redistribution in relation to class tree branches (within one class) and their design as a whole *silently points at hunters/paladins/shamans/druids* In this sense, class staff should be in minimal presence (if without taking into account PvE sets (which are raid's "carrots"), then there're very few items during the whole expansion and with insignificant impact on their classes (design&gameplay)) - for not to be a mandatory, but just a nice addition.
    4) I don’t like especially fast games, better tactics, and I don’t play now, so I can’t say anything concrete (positive/negative) about this current part. This is too private and requires direct participation, although I agree with them on “not to give away all bursts/CD at once”, but I don't think that everything have GCD is the only solution here (may be much bigger CD overall or less beneficial if being combined with each other, so it will be more valuable and much less desire to give away them all together at once). Therefore, I don't know, better skip this point.
    5) Classic? Do you know what classic says about it? It says: "No M+ (short multi-difficulties-separate-levels dungeons&everything being brainless timer haste)! Dungeons should be at least an hour or two for passage, tons of strong trash, which (trash) is also involved in boss fights, which (fights) mostly happened on same territory (with this trash), most of which (bosses) are showing up not through “cut scenes” or triggers, but located and active on same territory with trash, which (trash) isn't much weaker than boss itself, but sometimes (even being weaker) represents a much greater danger." That what classic is.
    6) Yes for "time bound events" and no for "multi-phase world" (not sure if I understood this point correctly).
    7) Vendors aren't enough, system of PvP currency and characteristics have to be return, but this isn't all, since it also requires return of natural PvP activity conditions. Yes, yes. What are you smiling? Of course I'm about PvP servers.

    I don't expect at all that you will agree with me, but somehow you will have to admit that not everyone shares your opinion on way of "2nd Golden Age"... isn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by muffinss View Post
    --- snip ---
    I read that and mostly I like it.

    ps. I'm not going to load this message with additional links, because not going to argue with anyone in this topic, it's clearly not intended for this, but I note, that I have a sufficiently detailed justification for each of the above points
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-04-10 at 09:31 AM.
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  19. #99
    Legendary! Zka's Avatar
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    1) no need to save BfA, it's fine. 2) even if it would be the best patch ever with all your wishes fullfilled, this community would find minute things to blow out of proportion and whine about, pretending the game is dying and it's the worst ever.

  20. #100
    I seriously doubt it. Fans have lost quite a bit of trust in Blizzard and pretty much all trust with the xpac/ brand BFA. Too much went wrong with BFA and most of the things that did go wrong could've easily been avoided by opening Blizzard's playbook of things they learned not to do about 4-5 years ago. That's not to say Patch 8.2 will not be good, it's possible Blizzard hits the bricks and does what they know they need to do. But, I strongly believe at this point, any remnant or promise about BFA needs to be off menu before players give WOW a "fair" shot and open mind again.

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