View Poll Results: Do you think 8.2 will save BfA?

319. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    30 9.40%
  • No

    124 38.87%
  • Maybe

    80 25.08%
  • The question should have been would next xpack saves WOW

    85 26.65%
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  1. #121
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    I think they indeed don't really have a vision for the game in terms of the gameplay apart from that it has to "stay WoW" and have the traditional things.
    To an extent, the snag is that it’s so difficult to determine what an RPG fundamentally is.

    A lot of people make exactly that claim:

    “This is supposed to be an MMORPG, what is this shit?!”

    But an RPG is really only defined as something that concentrates on fictional characters that deal in imaginary worlds… Meaning just about anything else is viable, and all Blizzard need to do is deal with player-orientated toons (which they do) that operate in a fictional world (which we do). Therefore, establishing a clear design orientated vision is something that I might want because of my belief that it’s what made the game so good until Cataclysm started the demise; but the current approach meets the defining definition of an RPG, so it’s a very hard argument to hold with game designers.

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Previously, they'd do more of experiments and the experiments would be bigger. Some were successful, others not so much, but they were doing big things. Phasing. LFG, then eventually cross-realm raids. Pet battles. Archaeology. Transmog. Sharding and merged servers. Etc. They are not doing much of that anymore, there are still some experiments but they are much rarer and smaller, it's mostly traditional things.
    Funnily enough, one of YouTube’s more popular speakers effectively concluded that this expansion essentially took what Legion had and hoped that simplifying would be enough. All it tried to add was the island content and attack/defend events but, like you say, they’re both laughably shallow systems that players typically got involved in purely for the necessary rewards.

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    By the way, that level squeeze that they are talking about is a good way for them to spend a lot of time, ruin tons of things and achieve pretty much nothing in the end. I get that they likely talked about it because they had nothing else they felt like talking about in the Q&A, but I really hope they won't suddenly commit to it, that's going to just again lose a lot of resources for nothing.
    I sincerely hope the level squish happens, and for a number of reasons I’ve posted elsewhere. I accept your concerns, they’re certainly valid, but I reckon the benefits will outstretch the problems.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnery Sgt Hartman View Post
    You are right that BFA does not need saving, it's designed for it's target audience. Saying that WoW has always been the same is pure bullshit though.
    I would go as far as saying that it's not even the same game as it was back in Vanilla/TBC.

    People can argue to death over which version that is/were the better one but in the end it doesn't matter because Blizzard has chosen their path and that's the one the game is heading down and there is no turning back from that one now. People need to adapt or quit i'm afraid.
    I know my reasons and why I am saying the things that I am saying.
    Now a question for you, what is different from Burning Crusade and that is not simply "it's boring"?
    I assure you, I will have a counter argument for whatever you come up with.

  3. #123
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    There's a clear chunk that wants that older experience where the game actually is an RPG.
    As I hinted to @rda, World of Warcraft is an RPG.

    There's essentially no way to argue that it's not.

    What we can argue, is that it's not the type of RPG it was (it isn't), or that we want.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    8.2 is trying to rework Azerite gear, and while that is indeed important, it doesn't touch on the bigger whole. Gear only matters in premade content in BFA. Even if you give me a more enticing reason to get AP, instead of unlocking rings, I am going to go for traits... but what are those traits doing for me?
    I don't need azerite traits to obliterate everything. The world isn't dangerous. It's like giving a buff to heirloom gear, it's already brokenly powerful.

    Maybe it will feel better once you at least have traits to chase after, but since it's apparent that Blizzard wasn't intending on "re-visiting" such a similar design from artifact weapons, I expect that they are going to make those new azerite trait "trees" very easy to cap, bringing people back to the usual issue.

    Since WoW is in many ways designed to make sure people are always "optimal", there's just going to be a lot of bitching from people who "feel like capping the azerite traits is mandatory", just like with everything else that at it's core should be an expansion-spanning feature. Yes, there should pretty much always be another trait to chase throughout an expansion, instead we'll be getting a panicked rushjob that is desperately trying to fix the most blatant issues (lack of character progression outside of raids). It is most likely going to feel like a bandaid fix.
    Gear has only mattered in pre made content since WotlK, but this really is broken. This is mitigated by heirlooms and last tier gear being g so powerful, existing characters breeze through stuff, new characters with no heirlooms or no high end tier gear from the previous expansion find it much more challenging

  5. #125
    The only thing that can save BfA is a quick release of an amazing new expansion (or better, the foresight to it so we know it's coming and BfA isn't dragging anymore). BfA itself isn't redeemable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Even if 8.2 is the best patch ever, the damage has already been done in the long run. People who are dissatisfied with BFA are very unlikely to come back until either Classic or the next expansion.
    Exactly this. WoD had the exact same problems although the first months of WoD have been considered quite good compared to the mess that BfA is.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again
    Vote #Jaina!

  6. #126
    At this point, the whiners and trolls will whine and troll even if we get the best patch/expansion in history of WoW. So, to answer your question? No, nothing can save WoW from idiots. And for people with at least one brain cell it doesn't need saving, so...I'm voting No.
    If the future is female...get ready for apocalypse.

  7. #127
    Warchief Vorkreist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    ATVI Board Room
    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    I assure you, I will have a counter argument for whatever you come up with.
    Did you even play TBC or are you just throwing those garbage comparisons from hear say?

    Call Ion and tell him your shilling paycheck is due.

  8. #128
    Nothing to save, bfa is fine as it is.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolithi View Post
    Nothing to save, bfa is fine as it is.
    Yeah it's good to let it as dead as it is.

  10. #130
    Well, for me its good. Its fine if you think differently...

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Did you even play TBC or are you just throwing those garbage comparisons from hear say?

    Call Ion and tell him your shilling paycheck is due.
    I was raiding in guild that did all realm firsts. I am definitely throwing garbage.

  12. #132
    Amen brother !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fullmetal89 View Post
    P.S. Blizzard, fire those fucking hacks Ion and Lore for the love of all that is holy. Never in a million years did I think I would say this: GHOSTCRAWLER COME BACK TO US!!!!

  13. #133
    Brewmaster HordeFanboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Not Shilling for Blizzard
    Bfa is dead
    Legion is the worst expansion
    BFA=Blizzard Failed Again

  14. #134
    I would say no. It will be another continent that most will stomp out in less then a month. Blizzard does not understand their fundamental problem with WoW. Retiring Attunements in Wrath was an absolute disaster that hurt end game in WoW very bad.

    Yes Beta for Azerite will end but then the other massive flaws with the game will become more apparent. Titanforge and Warforge are just broken systems that only serve to anger people.

    RNG and non rewarding systems in WoW will continue to bleed subs just like EVERY SINGLE other MMO with non rewarding and grindy systems have done before.

    If WoW drops below 1 million subs because of BFA I would not be shocked. Ion needs to be fired and Lore needs to go also. Ion is FARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR to set in his ways to see that his vision for WoW is killing it and Lore has EASILY got to be the worst CM this game or any other MMO has ever had. I honestly cannot tell you what he does. They sure as hell do not communicate and the community hates the damn community manager.

  15. #135
    only next expansion can save it.. they're not going to make changes that are required to save it during the expansion

    but again it wont happen even next expansion, judging by what they're saying during Q&A etc., and by their history

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    only next expansion can save it.. they're not going to make changes that are required to save it during the expansion

    but again it wont happen even next expansion, judging by what they're saying during Q&A etc., and by their history
    I fully agree with this. Ion is far too set in his ways to realize this RNG and no vendor philosophy is only angering people. All it will be is new content with the same BROKEN SYSTEMS.

  17. #137
    I'm so old that I remember when 8.1 was going to save BfA...

    A patch is not going to solve an expansion's major problems. BfA was predicated on leveraging Legion as much as possible, and largely focusing on graphical updates / reskins to keep players entertained (in corporate terms, what is the bare minimum I can do and not lose a ton of people).

    Unfortunately, while they succeeded wildly in the bare minimum that they could do, they failed hard with the not losing a ton of people part.

    And, to be fair, Blizz was looking at companies like Apple who pull this off quite successfully (sorry Apple fanboys, but each iteration of the iPhone has only been incremental improvements despite Apple's claims to the contrary) to rack in big bucks off their naive customers.

    The last question of the poll is most relevant. Will the next expansion bring WoW back up to where it should be (like it was in Legion)? I still posit that it will depend on how successful (or not) Diablo Immortal is. If Blizz makes big bank with DI, then the next WoW expansion will likely be as lazy as BfA. If DI doesn't do particularly well, then Blizz may have no choice but to put more serious effort into the next WoW expansion.

  18. #138
    Bloodsail Admiral Xkiller9000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Acherus: The Ebon Hold
    Even after everything Blizzard has done, I still find faith in them. So yea, I like to say hopefully, that it will, but it’s not a blind hope anymore.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    BFA is a lost cause. Many of us realized this 1 month in and decided to not waste our time on something that'll die out fast and be replaced.
    Blizzard will use classic as a strong buffer to rework wow and develop the next expansion.

    I wouldn't be shocked at all if the next expansion mimics the ideal of "wow" being a world again and not just raids that your port to and zone in.
    All the mechanics of "daily this, weekly that, endless progression ,etc" will all be removed. The design of the game will get back to what it was upon classic release. A GAME... not a money printing machine.
    While I am optimistic, I don't see the team swallowing their collective prides and reverting the game back to a time when people were generally having much more fun. They have largely taken the basic RPG elements out of the game and character progression and customization and it's been replaced with rng loot, terrible class balance, and fundamental systems that are just not fun at all(IE's, WF's, & other things)

    Who knows though, just have to see how what they develop.

  20. #140
    thats a big maybe. I will for sure return for it, but it will be interesting to see if it can hold people for a long while. Late Legion were good(I liked it), so maybe that happens with BfA to.

    Hopefully it wont take many months before its out. We dont know anything about 8.3 either, and thats quite strange at this point. Are they wrapping BfA up in 8.2 and a minor story content patch or will it come another major patch?

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