Do you think 8.2 will save BfA?

[Newname1234567890]

Maybe. I'll probably resub for a month or two because of it

[Nnyco]

8.1(.5) basically already fixed all that was wrong.

[Nights]

Nah, its april 3rd now and there is no sign of ptr of 8.2 even, so its like 3-4 months away at this point, b4 8.2 hits live servers another huge part of current players will stop. I belive there wont be many ppl coming bk b4 classic if they are into it or next xpac.

[rda]

Perhaps the problem is that Blizzard just don't have a vision of their own that builds the type of community they want, and solely tries to keep a bit of contentment with this huge pile of different groups that have different priorities and different wants. And perhaps that's the right approach.

I think they indeed don't really have a vision for the game in terms of the gameplay apart from that it has to "stay WoW" and have the traditional things.

The most in terms of forward-looking experiments that they have been doing lately was the experiment with the AI - with the island AI ending up basically irrelevant, but with the continuation with the AB brawl being a good game mode, in my opinion (not super-great, but fun and worth extending to all BGs).

Previously, they'd do more of experiments and the experiments would be bigger. Some were successful, others not so much, but they were doing big things. Phasing. LFG, then eventually cross-realm raids. Pet battles. Archaeology. Transmog. Sharding and merged servers. Etc. They are not doing much of that anymore, there are still some experiments but they are much rarer and smaller, it's mostly traditional things.

By the way, that level squeeze that they are talking about is a good way for them to spend a lot of time, ruin tons of things and achieve pretty much nothing in the end. I get that they likely talked about it because they had nothing else they felt like talking about in the Q&A, but I really hope they won't suddenly commit to it, that's going to just again lose a lot of resources for nothing.

[Pua]

I don't know what that has to do anything with Blizzard.

... Other than them owning, developing and selling the game you mean?

World of Warcraft has everything to do with Blizzard.

If you think talents have been pruned to death, I guess you forget how much of Burning Crusade talents were cookie cutter builds...

That an extremely small percentage of players looked up and used. The overwhelming majority made their own choices, be they good or bad, which meant that the talent system was a far more individual (and, thus, more player-orientated) concept.

[Gunnery Sgt Hartman]

I'm saying that BFA does not need saving is because, mainly, WoW has always been the same.
If you were not into grinding reputations in Burning Crusade, you will not be into grinding reputation now.
If you are, then I guess you have something to do then.

If you think talents have been pruned to death, I guess you forget how much of Burning Crusade talents were cookie cutter builds and you had options between few talent points. Now you get the same, and you just pick up the talents. Every expansion had some slight differences, this one is not exception. But bottom line, it has always been the same in its core. I took Burning Crusade as it was first expansion.

You are right that BFA does not need saving, it's designed for it's target audience. Saying that WoW has always been the same is pure bullshit though.
I would go as far as saying that it's not even the same game as it was back in Vanilla/TBC.

People can argue to death over which version that is/were the better one but in the end it doesn't matter because Blizzard has chosen their path and that's the one the game is heading down and there is no turning back from that one now. People need to adapt or quit i'm afraid.

[eduwneso]

BfA is fine. No need to save it. I don't think that 8.2 would contain any interesting content. May be 1 dungeon. Raid will be later, so there's nothing really to wait for.

Actually from what I can remember:

- 1 Big zone with story and quests (Nazjatar)
- 1 Small zone with story and quests (Mechagon)
- 8 boss Raid (Queen Ashzara last boss)
- 8 boss only mythic megadungeon (Mechagon) (later they will split it in half for HC)
- Heroic warfronts for premade group of 10 (they said it's difficulty would be the same as nromal or hc raid don't remember)
- Bodyguard for when you are in Nazjatar and will level up (this is meh but still worth mention)
- Flying (as far as I know they hinted the possibility of being enabled also on Nazjatar)
- Mini Events in Nazjatar and PVP/PVE towers for control (or something like that)
- Azerite pieces fully unlocked forever and we will have a talent tree in the neck similar to the one on legion with AW

There is more stuff but I don't remember, as far as I can see, this as content for a patch is sweet and big.

[Eleccybubb]

You are right that BFA does not need saving, it's designed for it's target audience. Saying that WoW has always been the same is pure bullshit though.
I would go as far as saying that it's not even the same game as it was back in Vanilla/TBC.

People can argue to death over which version that is/were the better one but in the end it doesn't matter because Blizzard has chosen their path and that's the one the game is heading down and there is no turning back from that one now. People need to adapt or quit i'm afraid.

That's why Classic is coming out in the summer then yes?

There's a clear chunk that wants that older experience where the game actually is an RPG.

[Pua]

I think they indeed don't really have a vision for the game in terms of the gameplay apart from that it has to "stay WoW" and have the traditional things.

To an extent, the snag is that it’s so difficult to determine what an RPG fundamentally is.

A lot of people make exactly that claim:

“This is supposed to be an MMORPG, what is this shit?!”

But an RPG is really only defined as something that concentrates on fictional characters that deal in imaginary worlds… Meaning just about anything else is viable, and all Blizzard need to do is deal with player-orientated toons (which they do) that operate in a fictional world (which we do). Therefore, establishing a clear design orientated vision is something that I might want because of my belief that it’s what made the game so good until Cataclysm started the demise; but the current approach meets the defining definition of an RPG, so it’s a very hard argument to hold with game designers.

Previously, they'd do more of experiments and the experiments would be bigger. Some were successful, others not so much, but they were doing big things. Phasing. LFG, then eventually cross-realm raids. Pet battles. Archaeology. Transmog. Sharding and merged servers. Etc. They are not doing much of that anymore, there are still some experiments but they are much rarer and smaller, it's mostly traditional things.

Funnily enough, one of YouTube’s more popular speakers effectively concluded that this expansion essentially took what Legion had and hoped that simplifying would be enough. All it tried to add was the island content and attack/defend events but, like you say, they’re both laughably shallow systems that players typically got involved in purely for the necessary rewards.

By the way, that level squeeze that they are talking about is a good way for them to spend a lot of time, ruin tons of things and achieve pretty much nothing in the end. I get that they likely talked about it because they had nothing else they felt like talking about in the Q&A, but I really hope they won't suddenly commit to it, that's going to just again lose a lot of resources for nothing.

I sincerely hope the level squish happens, and for a number of reasons I’ve posted elsewhere. I accept your concerns, they’re certainly valid, but I reckon the benefits will outstretch the problems.

[Pua]

There's a clear chunk that wants that older experience where the game actually is an RPG.

As I hinted to @rda, World of Warcraft is an RPG.

There's essentially no way to argue that it's not.

What we can argue, is that it's not the type of RPG it was (it isn't), or that we want.

[ravenmoon]

8.2 is trying to rework Azerite gear, and while that is indeed important, it doesn't touch on the bigger whole. Gear only matters in premade content in BFA. Even if you give me a more enticing reason to get AP, instead of unlocking rings, I am going to go for traits... but what are those traits doing for me?
I don't need azerite traits to obliterate everything. The world isn't dangerous. It's like giving a buff to heirloom gear, it's already brokenly powerful.

Maybe it will feel better once you at least have traits to chase after, but since it's apparent that Blizzard wasn't intending on "re-visiting" such a similar design from artifact weapons, I expect that they are going to make those new azerite trait "trees" very easy to cap, bringing people back to the usual issue.

Since WoW is in many ways designed to make sure people are always "optimal", there's just going to be a lot of bitching from people who "feel like capping the azerite traits is mandatory", just like with everything else that at it's core should be an expansion-spanning feature. Yes, there should pretty much always be another trait to chase throughout an expansion, instead we'll be getting a panicked rushjob that is desperately trying to fix the most blatant issues (lack of character progression outside of raids). It is most likely going to feel like a bandaid fix.

Gear has only mattered in pre made content since WotlK, but this really is broken. This is mitigated by heirlooms and last tier gear being g so powerful, existing characters breeze through stuff, new characters with no heirlooms or no high end tier gear from the previous expansion find it much more challenging

[Nyel]

The only thing that can save BfA is a quick release of an amazing new expansion (or better, the foresight to it so we know it's coming and BfA isn't dragging anymore). BfA itself isn't redeemable.

- - - Updated - - -

Even if 8.2 is the best patch ever, the damage has already been done in the long run. People who are dissatisfied with BFA are very unlikely to come back until either Classic or the next expansion.

Exactly this. WoD had the exact same problems although the first months of WoD have been considered quite good compared to the mess that BfA is.

[Dziubla]

At this point, the whiners and trolls will whine and troll even if we get the best patch/expansion in history of WoW. So, to answer your question? No, nothing can save WoW from idiots. And for people with at least one brain cell it doesn't need saving, so...I'm voting No.

[Vorkreist]

I assure you, I will have a counter argument for whatever you come up with.

Did you even play TBC or are you just throwing those garbage comparisons from hear say?

Call Ion and tell him your shilling paycheck is due.

[Monolithi]

Nothing to save, bfa is fine as it is.

[Weallscream]

Nothing to save, bfa is fine as it is.

Yeah it's good to let it as dead as it is.

[Monolithi]

Well, for me its good. Its fine if you think differently...

[brigada]

Amen brother !!!

P.S. Blizzard, fire those fucking hacks Ion and Lore for the love of all that is holy. Never in a million years did I think I would say this: GHOSTCRAWLER COME BACK TO US!!!!

[HordeFanboy]

Bfa is dead

[Puremallace]

I would say no. It will be another continent that most will stomp out in less then a month. Blizzard does not understand their fundamental problem with WoW. Retiring Attunements in Wrath was an absolute disaster that hurt end game in WoW very bad.

Yes Beta for Azerite will end but then the other massive flaws with the game will become more apparent. Titanforge and Warforge are just broken systems that only serve to anger people.

RNG and non rewarding systems in WoW will continue to bleed subs just like EVERY SINGLE other MMO with non rewarding and grindy systems have done before.

If WoW drops below 1 million subs because of BFA I would not be shocked. Ion needs to be fired and Lore needs to go also. Ion is FARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR to set in his ways to see that his vision for WoW is killing it and Lore has EASILY got to be the worst CM this game or any other MMO has ever had. I honestly cannot tell you what he does. They sure as hell do not communicate and the community hates the damn community manager.