View Poll Results: Who is the dumbest faction leader?

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186. You may not vote on this poll
  • Anduin

    112 60.22%
  • Sylvanas

    74 39.78%
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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    i don't know how intelligent you think it is to interact with someone who willfully disregarded your orders, commandeered an entire army and waged a war under your banner and attack a sovereign nation you're under a treaty with... by promoting them to the position immediately beneath you own as a "punishment".



    And then go meet with the target of said attack and honestly act like nothing ever happened and that you can try to maintain 'peaceful' ties despite said attack... I mean if we're talking about Sylvanas that is textbook her post evil action (minus the blatant and deliberate honesty part).


    Oh and then the pushing for an extremely volatile meeting where both parties have extreme reserves towards one another and allowing an even more volatile party take part because it felt right... and inadvertently allow said volatile third party turn "peaceful" meeting into something it really wasn't...

    Being young isn't an excuse when you're the leader of the whole fucking faction. Should have grown something else instead of malice detecting bones when he got crushed, like some common sense.

    edit:

    how you get advisers who singularly have more knowledge of tactics and relations than his entire nation's hierarchy combined and still fall back on his own short years of experience when trying to move forward. Discuss tactics with the general who has seen conflict over teh course of 15k years? Naw... discuss parlay with the 50k+ year old prophet? seems to not happen.

    Seek council with the old man who stole your army for revenge purpsoes? GOOD IDEA!

    first off, insubordination is supposed to get a punishment not a promotion. hard fact basics.
    I already said Anduin is an idiot, though for diffrient reasons. But when compared to Sylvanas he has the excuse of being 18 years old while Sylvanas is thousands of years old.

    Nice you dropped the emotions part though, Sylvanas take the cake for that.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    I already said Anduin is an idiot, though for diffrient reasons. But when compared to Sylvanas he has the excuse of being 18 years old while Sylvanas is thousands of years old.

    Nice you droped the emitons part though, Sylvanas take the cake for that.
    I didn't drop it....

    anduin is still worse than Sylvanas there because he relies on his magic bones and hopes and dreams

    edit:

    Sylvanas major feeling outbursts still spawned a nation that would mortally wound any nation it went into all out war to the bitter end with.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    I didn't drop it....

    anduin is still worse than Sylvanas there because he relies on his magic bones and hopes and dreams
    I didn't see him committing suicide.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    I didn't see him committing suicide.
    he's only shot himself in teh foot politcally twice, run headlong into death traps twice and managed to give the horde every fucking reason to continue hostilities while masquerading as an attempt at leadership.

    I dunno. I personally re-weight the value of death among the dead. Especially when the story seems to showcase an extreme desire to remain on the mortal plane.

    Meanwhile, Anduin keeps getting written into making foolish mistake after retarded mistake and falls back on his personal experience and his magic bones to try and showcase his intentions.

    If he makes another blunder because of him not getting a hint from his achey shin bone then he's is should be fucking DONE.

    edit:

    for example. I will roast Saurfang on his suicidal tendencies because he keeps throwing himself into the mess. Warrior hall intro. pre-battle for lordaeron... DURING battle for lordaeron and now I'm no longer sure he isn't just trying to seek it again by throwing himself at the warchief who he may now deem a "most hated foe".

    Sylvanas on the other hand has had that one suicidal episode at icecrown which seems to have been used to mold her into a very self centered being with self preservation as a central concern to everything.
    Last edited by mickybrighteyes; 2019-04-05 at 02:32 PM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    he's only shot himself in teh foot politcally twice, run headlong into death traps twice and managed to give the horde every fucking reason to continue hostilities while masquerading as an attempt at leadership.

    I dunno. I personally re-weight the value of death among the dead. Especially when the story seems to showcase an extreme desire to remain on the mortal plane.

    Meanwhile, Anduin keeps getting written into making foolish mistake after retarded mistake and falls back on his personal experience and his magic bones to try and showcase his intentions.

    If he makes another blunder because of him not getting a hint from his achey shin bone then he's is should be fucking DONE.
    He didn't killed himself which would have lead to his people death, all because of his emotions. You can keep bringing up traps and stuff but we are talking about emotions..
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-04-05 at 02:35 PM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    He didn't killed himself and let his people die as a result, all because of his emotions. You can keep bringing up traps and stuff but we are talking about emotions..
    traps he willfully ran into or set up because he didn't think something bad could happen.

    Lets go get the forsaken and humans together for a meeting almost NOONE wants. Have the closest thing to a living heir to lordaeron in attendance? It'll be GRAND. A real turning point! Why did that event happen? Anduin and his hopes that people and forsaken could be better.... why'd it fail? He let the one person into the field that really should have stayed out.

    Lordaeron? He wanted to go in and arrest Sylvanas, personally, and goes in with JUST his main advisers... tries to have his big speech.... it's a rigged room ready to go off and take any corporeal living things to a very blighted end.

    His company and closest advisers hardly listen to him as High King doing as they please and it seems that unless somehting actually triggers his anti-malice senses he doesn't bother doing anything.

    You act like he isn't allowing his hopes that others will act in his best interest isn't factoring into his incredibly obvious mistakes.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    traps he willfully ran into or set up because he didn't think something bad could happen.

    Lets go get the forsaken and humans together for a meeting almost NOONE wants. Have the closest thing to a living heir to lordaeron in attendance? It'll be GRAND. A real turning point! Why did that event happen? Anduin and his hopes that people and forsaken could be better.... why'd it fail? He let the one person into the field that really should have stayed out.

    Lordaeron? He wanted to go in and arrest Sylvanas, personally, and goes in with JUST his main advisers... tries to have his big speech.... it's a rigged room ready to go off and take any corporeal living things to a very blighted end.

    His company and closest advisers hardly listen to him as High King doing as they please and it seems that unless somehting actually triggers his anti-malice senses he doesn't bother doing anything.

    You act like he isn't allowing his hopes that others will act in his best interest isn't factoring into his incredibly obvious mistakes.
    He didn't commit suicide that would have lead to his people extinction, again nothing tops that lol. Anduin does struggle with his emotions but Sylvanas takes the cake for that part.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    He didn't commit suicide that would have lead to his people extinction, again nothing tops that lol. Anduin does struggle with his emotions but Sylvanas takes the cake for that part.
    And that suicide was undone and the people's extinction has yet to occur.

    I might as well bag anduin further for taking Alleria and Genn into that rigged room and thus gotten wiped out the first and second seats of authority in the stormwind military command....

    But Jaina acted in teh same fashion as the Valkyr and got their respective parties out of there.

    Sylvanas then had a very drastic change of character afterwards... Anduin is still very much the same as when he walked willingly into that room he would have died in.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    And that suicide was undone and the people's extinction has yet to occur.

    I might as well bag anduin further for taking Alleria and Genn into that rigged room and thus gotten wiped out the first and second seats of authority in the stormwind military command....

    But Jaina acted in teh same fashion as the Valkyr and got their respective parties out of there.

    Sylvanas then had a very drastic change of character afterwards... Anduin is still very much the same as when he walked willingly into that room he would have died in.
    Sylvanas deliberately wanted to die which would have resulted in her people death, Anduin being 18 year old making mistakes that he doesn't want to make is different then somebody DELIBERATELY wanting to commit suicide.

    Anduin is 18 years old, hard to making drastic changes as a young boy.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Sylvanas deliberately wanted to die which would have resulted in her people death, Anduin being 18 year old making mistakes that he doesn't want to make is different then somebody DELIBERATELY wanting to commit suicide.
    and that's all fine and dandy but her actions in any story following that event has held no hint or desire of wanting it again. That is part of the reason I downplay it. Do you still look at a someone who wanted to commit suicide who was talked down and seems to never hold those desires again? Or is it still "that guy tried to kill himself 10/20/40 years ago... all his work since then is invalid!"

    Adding in the would have and could haves THAT DIDN'T happen as additional ramifications for an action that was countered is also equally pointless.
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Anduin is 18 years old, hard to making drastic changes as a young boy.
    A young adult with an advisor with 50k+ (cause the fall of argus was 50K years prior not Velen's actual age), who's parlayed with the Monkey King (another being who's likely existed since prior to the sundering so 15k+), who's gone off and seen the world and experienced his own trials (remember how he got his magic bones), who is also a prince who was raised as such.... he should have some damned common sense and he HAS undergone events that WOULD drastically change someone's emotional/mental state.

    He's had his mother die, his dad gone missing... been tutored under sages, mages, and those under criminal wages and is keenly aware of what lies in the hearts of man (priest/bone powers)... his excuses for naivety are pretty flimsy.

  11. #71
    Sylvanas. Anduin has the excuse of youth and inexperience. Sylvanas goes full pants-on-head Cersei Lannister despite her supposed intelligence.

  12. #72
    Anduin is the ultimate imbecilic beta boy pussy as if from feminist pamphlet about toxic masculinity. He is too stupid to be a slave on my farm.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    and that's all fine and dandy but her actions in any story following that event has held no hint or desire of wanting it again. That is part of the reason I downplay it. Do you still look at a someone who wanted to commit suicide who was talked down and seems to never hold those desires again? Or is it still "that guy tried to kill himself 10/20/40 years ago... all his work since then is invalid!"
    By 10/20/30/40 years ago you mean 4-5 years? Doesn't matter though, Sylvanas, thousands of year old general would have let her people die because of her emotions, yeah that so like an 18 year old who only recently became king. You keep missing the point Anduin didn't deliberately wanted to make mistakes, that what makes Sylvanas case worse. Sylvnas wasnt talked out of a suicide, she did it, when she saw what torment awaited her she wanted out.

    Adding in the would have and could haves THAT DIDN'T happen as additional ramifications for an action that was countered is also equally pointless.
    So what that it didnt happened? The point she killed herself which would have resulted in the Forsaken extinction. Just because she got a free life card doesnt erase the act.

    A young adult with an advisor with 50k+ (cause the fall of argus was 50K years prior not Velen's actual age), who's parlayed with the Monkey King (another being who's likely existed since prior to the sundering so 15k+), who's gone off and seen the world and experienced his own trials (remember how he got his magic bones), who is also a prince who was raised as such.... he should have some damned common sense and he HAS undergone events that WOULD drastically change someone's emotional/mental state.
    Again nothing he did compares to what Sylvanas did based on emotion, because he doesnt WANT to make mistakes. Anduin is still a boy compared to everybody else.

    He's had his mother die, his dad gone missing... been tutored under sages, mages, and those under criminal wages and is keenly aware of what lies in the hearts of man (priest/bone powers)... his excuses for naivety are pretty flimsy.
    And did his naivety lead to a deliberate death by suicide that would have doomed his people? Anduin struggles with his emotions, but when it comes to comparing Sylvanas and him, she did far worse because she deliberately wanted to die. She didnt care for the Forsaken at all at that point, all because of her emotions. Did Anduin emotions lead to him not giving a crap about his people?
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-04-05 at 03:40 PM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Nirathiel View Post
    Anduin has a room for improvement since he's still very young. Can't say the same for Sylvanas after that guitar slide into Arthas.
    I don't consider it canon. I think that they just wanted to make the fight shorter. In the same matter they skipped the moment where Azshara uses Sharas'dal.
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

  15. #75
    anduin obviously. at least sylvanas has a goal

  16. #76
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  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    By 10/20/30/40 years ago you mean 4-5 years? Doesn't matter though, Sylvanas, thousands of year old general would have let her people die because of her emotions, yeah that so like an 18 year old who only recently became king. You keep missing the point Anduin didn't deliberately wanted to make mistakes, that what makes Sylvanas case worse. Sylvnas wasnt talked out of a suicide, she did it, when she saw what torment awaited her she wanted out.
    Most of the context we have for her emotions affecting her tossing away of lives seems to be a LACK of emotion or showing more importance on outcome (She's regarded as very callous in that regard even before death).

    No one intentionally makes mistakes... but his apparent lack of using his own resources and falling back on his obvious ignorance and thus being teh reason the mistakes are repeatedly happening is NOT something to ignore because he is ignorant. He is High King, not some youth.



    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    So what that it didnt happened? The point she killed herself which would have resulted in the Forsaken extinction. Just because she got a free life card doesnt erase the act.
    What didn't happen is that the forsaken didn't die out because she killed herself... much like the alliance wasn't without the main leadership because Anduin walked into a room with Genn. Just because Anduin got a free life card from Jaina doesn't change the fact he still walked into the trap.


    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Again nothing he did compares to what Sylvanas did based on emotion
    Pause... basically set Calia up to have her own coup/ Basically give Genn the army and resources to attempt to assassinate and wage his own personal war on the horde. Basically ignore his faction's aggression because he can't control shit and because he still thinks peace was an option... and this is all before the war of thorns began. Oh and leaving to run off and ignore his duties because didn't want to deal with shit... I'd comment on post BfA but I feel like more plot holes need to be properly addressed.
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    , because he doesnt WANT to make mistakes.
    And he also seems to not want to learn from them either.



    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    And did his naivety lead to a deliberate death by suicide that would have doomed his people? Anduin struggles with his emotions, but when it comes to comparing Sylvanas and him, she did far worse because she deliberately wanted to die. She didnt care for the Forsaken at all at that point, all because of her emotions. Did Anduin emotions lead to him not giving a crap about his people?
    No... his naivety lead his troops into multiple death traps because he wanted to pursue when he should have backed off. His ignorance put civilians into a situation where one of his confidants abused their position and forced an escalation. HIs unwillingness to actually do what needs to be done is just hamstringing his nations armies so they can't perform and his loose grip on the reigns of power has his underlings undermining his orders.

    You can quibble that Sylvanas killed herself 6 years back. her actions afterwards seem to go contrary to the being you suggest. Meanwhile The current highest authority in the alliance is acting anything BUT with his authority and seems bereft of the faculties we know he should have access to. The alliance army is struggling against his 'advisement' (note: advising not commanding on Anduin's part) on multiple fronts while aggressively pushing into territory he's trying to maintain a gentler hand with (and basically just going in heavy handed anyways). He comes across as a figure head that gets paid lip service while his advisers do as they please.

  18. #78
    Anduin, he has the upper hand and the numbers in his army.
    After undercity and his army in the north what target he picks? Zandalar...

    Maybe you had to go to Silvermoon so you had control over all of the Eastern Kingdom.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    Most of the context we have for her emotions affecting her tossing away of lives seems to be a LACK of emotion or showing more importance on outcome (She's regarded as very callous in that regard even before death).
    She has hate, hate is an emotion, a that point hate for herself and misery, "what joy is in this curse", and her hate on life started a war she cannot win and she dragged the entire Horde into it.

    No one intentionally makes mistakes... but his apparent lack of using his own resources and falling back on his obvious ignorance and thus being teh reason the mistakes are repeatedly happening is NOT something to ignore because he is ignorant. He is High King, not some youth.
    He is an 18 year old High King, and Sylvanas is far from not being ignorant, she is unwilling to learn not everybody is a self serving asshole who only cares from themselves. She only sees the worst in people and formulates plans based on those thoughts.

    What didn't happen is that the forsaken didn't die out because she killed herself... much like the alliance wasn't without the main leadership because Anduin walked into a room with Genn. Just because Anduin got a free life card from Jaina doesn't change the fact he still walked into the trap.
    Anduin didnt know it was a trap, Sylvans did know she would die,.


    Pause... basically set Calia up to have her own coup/
    Calia was brought because of Faol, and it was a forsaken who discovered a hidden Calia.

    Basically give Genn the army and resources to attempt to assassinate and wage his own personal war on the horde.
    At that point, Genn and Anduin thought the Horde betrayed them, and although he willingly chose to interpret Anduin orders about attacking, he was still in the end proven right with Sylvanas wanted to enslave an entire race. So that def lessens the anger one would have for Genn once knowing what Sylvanas was doing.

    Basically ignore his faction's aggression because he can't control shit and because he still thinks peace was an option...
    Peace was an option, in A Good war, Saurfang and Sylvanas said a peace could have lasted for up to 50 years, which when seeing every world ending disaster and war that happens every year is a miracle. They decided to start a war despite believing a peace could have been had for decades, if they said peace was an option that means Anduin was right to think that.

    And this is all before the war of thorns began. Oh and leaving to run off and ignore his duties because didn't want to deal with shit...
    Ran off? You mean in Legion when his last parent died? Yeah, how dare an 18 year old boy whose both parents died tragically and whose weight of the world had just been placed on his shoulders to feel overwhelmed. Besides its not like Sylvnas did anything against the Legion but persued her own goals that had nothing to do with the current war.

    And he also seems to not want to learn from them either.
    Neither does Sylvanas.

    No... his naivety lead his troops into multiple death traps because he wanted to pursue when he should have backed off. His ignorance put civilians into a situation where one of his confidants abused their position and forced an escalation. HIs unwillingness to actually do what needs to be done is just hamstringing his nations armies so they can't perform and his loose grip on the reigns of power has his underlings undermining his orders.
    Did he want to die? Sylvanas did. Did he give two shits about his people and soldiers? Sylvanas didn't.

    You can quibble that Sylvanas killed herself 6 years back. her actions afterwards seem to go contrary to the being you suggest. Meanwhile The current highest authority in the alliance is acting anything BUT with his authority and seems bereft of the faculties we know he should have access to. The alliance army is struggling against his 'advisement' (note: advising not commanding on Anduin's part) on multiple fronts while aggressively pushing into territory he's trying to maintain a gentler hand with (and basically just going in heavy handed anyways). He comes across as a figure head that gets paid lip service while his advisers do as they please.
    By her actions do you mean starting a war she cannot win because of her hate with life? Human life? Oh and dont forget her paranoia about death and thinking hope is a sickness, not exactly the traits of a emotional stable person.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-04-06 at 09:46 AM.

  20. #80
    I want to pick Blizzard. That faction is the stupidest of them all.

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