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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    Nothing you're saying contests the point I've been making, so I guess we agree.
    Agree that he could be a lot more interesting than being beaten up and turning evil because of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    No, if they were smart, they’d realise that they can’t compete with Marvel in the live action universe, and go back to beating them up and stealing their money in the animated universe, where they have almost always been utterly dominant.

    Into the Spiderverse showed that a REALLY well made animated movie can succeed. If DC really threw their full support behind their animated stuff, they’d make buckets of cash.
    Well, the problem with DC is they jumped into the middle of the story, went backwards and told origin stories, and then tried to play present day instead of building up to it. They had the opportunity to do it better than Marvel since Marvel had to backtrack a little when they realized they could do a cinematic universe.

    I don't disagree though that they could easily double-down on animated films, but people in general get turned off by animation and especially adult animation that isn't stupid Family Guy.

  2. #82
    DC doesn't need to compete to make money.
    Their movies may not get Marvel's numbers, but certainly doesn't mean that they're not making big profits.

    And with Wonder Woman, and now Aquaman, they don't need to play up some silly "competition." The corporate heads just need to take a hands-off approach.

  3. #83
    Vamonos vamonos

  4. #84
    The Unstoppable Force cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfrostzero View Post
    Getting pushed around and beaten up is a pretty boring reason to becoming one of the most iconic super villains in comic book history.
    But if it's done right, it could really present a frighteningly simple reason why and how someone "found their path". I get what you're saying, but if the path to super villainy could come from a death of a thousand cuts, it makes it even more personal.

    Ledger will probably always be the best joker. But Phoenix wouldn't have signed on to a shitty script. And the first preview looks pretty good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Heath Ledger's Joker was great because they never gave him a clear backstory. The Joker is an agent of chaos. Trying to humanize him fails the character.
    I potentially disagree. If done right, it could make the iconism that much stronger. But they are going to have to thread the needle well.

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    Interesting. The writer/director has a history of comedies only. It must be an amazing script.
    The less you know, the more you believe.

    Science has promised us nothing and given us everything, faith has promised us everything and given us nothing.

  5. #85
    Now that's a good trailer, with just the vibes I expected, and Joaquin Phoenix is perfect for the role on top of being a world-class actor.

    All that said, I still temper my expectations. Suicide Squad's trailers also looked good, and we know what happened to that.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Heath Ledger's Joker was great because they never gave him a clear backstory. The Joker is an agent of chaos. Trying to humanize him fails the character.
    Yeah that's true actually, on a few occasions he changes his "wanna know how I got these scars" story and all we really know is that he hates his father. Filling in the gaps removes the mystery around his motives and tries to rationalise his chaos

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    You keep mentioning someone bullying him, but that's a really single-minded way of looking at tragic characters. I already mentioned Macbeth in this thread as a strong example of a character who has a tragic story yet also becomes a villain whose actions are totally unjustifiable. I don't disagree with your description of The Joker at all, but that description doesn't preclude him from being a tragic character unless he was born that way.

    A tragic character is just one who has a fall from status and ends up being villainous. It doesn't mean they have to be a bullied kid, nor that they are out seeking revenge. They can be driven by basically anything, including their own unhinged mental machinations.
    Agreed, showing the Joker's origin and why he does things doesn't have to correlate with making him really sympathetic (which would be silly, he's a mass murdering psychopath, period); reasons aren't justifications. Hell, for a good example of that, take Thanos in Infinity War. The movie focuses about him above anyone else, he gets the most character development out of anyone and has his backstory explained in depth, but he's still the villain that has to be stopped before he murders countless beings. Or Walter White in Breaking Bad who might be a cool badass that got spit on earlier in his life, but remains a murderous, extremely ruthless drug kingpin when all's said and done.

    They might do the same thing here. Show you how and why the Joker became, well, the Joker without necessarily expecting him to be anything but the bad guy. Hell, anyone who has read Dark Knight Returns might start getting a bit uncomfortable at the idea of Joker getting on the stage of a talk show...

  8. #88
    The Lightbringer Kyphael's Avatar
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    Hope this replaces the awful Jared Leto Joker. Looks so good.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    I liked the trailer. Left much to explore and even what kind of movie it will be. When I first saw the makeup I was skeptical but it seems to work. Currently the most anticipated movie for me.
    i think what i like most about the joker as a villain is, really hes just the "one bad day" concept, there is no official joker so we can have all these different takes on him, different takes on his relationship with Gotham and batman that you just don't get with other villains.
    Classic WoW, is just Brexit. Bunch of dudes missing the glory of the past, all with vastly different opinions of how to get there, but ultimately heading for a World of Disappointment.

  10. #90
    I'm a huge DC fan, but I just can't get over the fact that at no point in the trailer does he even look slightly like The Joker. Even Ledger's Joker looked more like The Joker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Heath Ledger's Joker was great because they never gave him a clear backstory. The Joker is an agent of chaos. Trying to humanize him fails the character.
    And this. The Joker just is ... and that's part of what makes him so interesting. I actually don't want a backstory for The Joker.
    Shut your goddamn mouth, Gene!

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceboytg View Post
    I'm a huge DC fan, but I just can't get over the fact that at no point in the trailer does he even look slightly like The Joker. Even Ledger's Joker looked more like The Joker.



    And this. The Joker just is ... and that's part of what makes him so interesting. I actually don't want a backstory for The Joker.
    The only way that it will be good is if the there is the "twist" of him being an unreliable narrator and it kind of jumping into the future or today with him basically saying everything you watched may or may not have been real.

  12. #92
    Herald of the Titans BarelyLegalBear's Avatar
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    Looks decent, but not sure how I feel about Joaquin. I want Cameron Monaghan from Gotham to be The Joker.

  13. #93
    Looks very promising. The Joaquin cast choice is very good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Lol, this looks like it will be popular with the edge boys.

    "The Joker is totally misunderstood and the real victim, maaan. The psychopathic mass murderer has a point!"
    Oh, Elba.
    "I declare the global social space we are building to be naturally independent of the tyrannies you seek to impose on us. You have no moral right to rule us nor do you possess any methods of enforcement we have true reason to fear." - EFF, A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfrostzero View Post
    The only way that it will be good is if the there is the "twist" of him being an unreliable narrator and it kind of jumping into the future or today with him basically saying everything you watched may or may not have been real.
    ...what? That's the only way it will be good?

    Not if it has a good story or good performances...but only if it fits your preconceptions of what the Joker should be?

    I would have thought that this would be the one character that fans wouldn't have a problem with seeing different sides of, given that he is so crazy and (seemingly) purposefully left open to interpretation.

  15. #95
    The Undying Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Looks pretty good son far. I’ll admit I’m a little concerned this will fail.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    I am talking about how a movie that tries to portray a psychopathic killer as sympathetic and (somewhat) justified in his actions will be popular with edge lords. Nothing more.

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    Heath Ledger's Joker was great because they never gave him a clear backstory. The Joker is an agent of chaos. Trying to humanize him fails the character.
    All true You’re right.
    "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  16. #96
    I am going to make the very bold prediction:

    This backstory is told by Joker to Harley Quinzel during their interviews to garner sympathy for him. The movie ending with her willing to break him out of Arkham cause she feels sorry for him and falls in love with him. As she walks away, he starts to get the evil smile.

  17. #97
    This looks like it has a lot of potential. Vaguely reminds me of Falling Down, and where he eventually just snaps after something happens like his mom dying.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    did you not like Aquaman or Wonder Woman?
    WW wasn't the worst film I've ever seen but it had some glaring problems. Like massive flaws that just shouldn't have been there. Add in the recycled footage from the church jump and the ending jump then it just felt half arsed for something that could have been so good.

  19. #99
    The Insane Boomzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Lol, this looks like it will be popular with the edge boys.

    "The Joker is totally misunderstood and the real victim, maaan. The psychopathic mass murderer has a point!"
    Could you possibly be more obnoxious? Holy fuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xisa View Post
    You had your chance to make something special of this, Internet, and you fucked it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Izalla View Post
    We are in this thread with Elba, therefore we are all Elba.

  20. #100
    Looks very interesting. I don't think anyone will ever top Ledger's joker but Joaquin Phoenix can sure try.

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