Joker [with Joaquin Phoenix]

[Coldfrostzero]

...what? That's the only way it will be good?

Not if it has a good story or good performances...but only if it fits your preconceptions of what the Joker should be?

I would have thought that this would be the one character that fans wouldn't have a problem with seeing different sides of, given that he is so crazy and (seemingly) purposefully left open to interpretation.

That is just it though, he's been practically always portrayed as a lunatic with the narrow goal of causing as much physical and mental torment on Batman as possible. He doesn't really have or need depth. You're not suppose to sympathize with him at all either. He's a murdering psychopath who commits horrible atrocities and mentally and physically abuses Harley Quinn who happens to be the only person who loves him.

To humanize him just doesn't make any sense.

[Makabreska]

Ugh, I'm SO not sold on this move. I really did not need to know Jokers origin story. It really seems like WB is throwing random movie ideas and seeing what sticks.

[Crillam]

That's interesting to hear, considering how everyone gushed over Wonder Woman... minus the ending which everyone hated :P



That was still the better Fantastic Four movie than the other two we had... Which says a lot considering it wasnt even released lol

Other two? We've had 3, not counting this one.

[hikikimori]

This movie is so going to inspire multiple school shootings, and a lot of people commenting on reddit/twitter are saying so. Joker is literally a depressed, bullied incel in this version.

Anyway, I'm doing my prep for this movie by reading about the real Joker killer. I'm on page 20 and already this movie feels like a biopic of him. I'm sure, if the killer got to see this movie in jail, he'd be psyched: they've made a homage to me!
A Dark Night in Aurora: Inside James Holmes and the Colorado Mass Shootings

"The worst part about having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don’t"

[Orby]

Other two? We've had 3, not counting this one.

I meant 3 separate interpretations.

Fantastic 4 (1990)
Fantastic Four (2005 + 2007)
Fant4stic (2015)

[Crillam]

This movie is so going to inspire multiple school shootings, and a lot of people commenting on reddit/twitter are saying so. Joker is literally a depressed, bullied incel in this version.

Anyway, I'm doing my prep for this movie by reading about the real Joker killer. I'm on page 20 and already this movie feels like a biopic of him. I'm sure, if the killer got to see this movie in jail, he'd be psyched: they've made a homage to me!
A Dark Night in Aurora: Inside James Holmes and the Colorado Mass Shootings

"The worst part about having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don’t"

Yeah Man, I've read on reddit and twitter that after the Shazam movie, it will inspire people to jump off tall buildings, yelling Shazam! Realizing they're not transforming and a few seconds later... die.

Anyway these things seems to be a US problem only so let em handle it, believe in the great Trump.

[Adam Jensen]

Already a better Joker than Leto.

[eschatological]

I am going to make the very bold prediction:

This backstory is told by Joker to Harley Quinzel during their interviews to garner sympathy for him. The movie ending with her willing to break him out of Arkham cause she feels sorry for him and falls in love with him. As she walks away, he starts to get the evil smile.

And then there's a scene at the end (maybe post-credits) of two goons talking about how the Joker came to be and one basically says "I heard [insert movie plot about his mother]" and the other goon is like, "Nah man, I've seen his file, he was dropped off at an orphanage at birth and he's been there until he was an adult..." and the audience finds out the whole movie is a lie.

It could work, I guess.

[Shadowferal]

The only way that it will be good is if the there is the "twist" of him being an unreliable narrator and it kind of jumping into the future or today with him basically saying everything you watched may or may not have been real.

I was thinking nearly the same thing last night.
If we saw only some twisted version on an untruth...now that would come across as entertaining to me.

[Skulltaker]

I still find it weird that they're choosing to do the troll thing by naming him Arthur Fleck.

Isn't that the Jokers name from the original storyline?

[Lanrefni]

Isn't that the Jokers name from the original storyline?

The Joker likes his life story to be multiple choice,so no one really knows who he was before he became the Joker.

[Ausr]

That is just it though, he's been practically always portrayed as a lunatic with the narrow goal of causing as much physical and mental torment on Batman as possible. He doesn't really have or need depth. You're not suppose to sympathize with him at all either. He's a murdering psychopath who commits horrible atrocities and mentally and physically abuses Harley Quinn who happens to be the only person who loves him.

To humanize him just doesn't make any sense.

Reminds me of people romanticizing Harley and Joker's relationship as a life goal. Yeah, that's certainly a goal to have with your significant other.

[s_bushido]

That is just it though, he's been practically always portrayed as a lunatic with the narrow goal of causing as much physical and mental torment on Batman as possible. He doesn't really have or need depth. You're not suppose to sympathize with him at all either. He's a murdering psychopath who commits horrible atrocities and mentally and physically abuses Harley Quinn who happens to be the only person who loves him.

To humanize him just doesn't make any sense.

You're implying that the Joker is so popular because he's nothing more than a shallow foil for Batman. I find it hard to believe that after decades of stories, his character hasn't developed beyond "lunatic who likes to fuck with the protagonist and murder people."

The fact that he is just a human (and not some superpowered engine of destruction) is exactly what makes him so interesting... It's the reason no one gives a shit about Doomsday, who was literally created just to "kill" Superman, but yet Joker is one of the most iconic villains of all time. It's like you have no idea what makes a good character.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that knowing exactly what makes the Joker tick is a good idea, but "humanizing" him to the point that we can start to understand some of the method behind his madness isn't a bad thing.

[Skilrathos]

The paint above and below the his eyes ruins the look for me. Would have been fine if they had darkened his eyes like Ledger's.

[Adamas102]

I think it looks like an interesting take.

Seems a lot of posters here haven't read much into it yet. It's a standalone movie separate from the DCEU, no sequels will be made for it. It also works with a somewhat different timeline than what we're used to. Thomas and Bruce Wayne do appear in the movie, the latter still as a young child of course. This Joker would be in his 60's by the time Batman is in his prime.

If you don't like the idea of a Joker character study, then don't watch it.

[Shadowferal]

I'm reminded that there was a Freddie Krueger cartoon way back. A sadistic supernatural psycho pedophile...and was turned into a plush toy.

[Kelimbror]

If you don't like the idea of a Joker character study, then don't watch it.

I think the problem is that as far as 'character studies' go, this seems like a pretty typical whoa as me, my old momma gonna die, I get bullied by everyone, now I'm a psychopath who murders people is pretty unoriginal and boring. I hope there's more to it, but it seems pretty stereotypical and plain.

[Coldfrostzero]

You're implying that the Joker is so popular because he's nothing more than a shallow foil for Batman. I find it hard to believe that after decades of stories, his character hasn't developed beyond "lunatic who likes to fuck with the protagonist and murder people."

The fact that he is just a human (and not some superpowered engine of destruction) is exactly what makes him so interesting... It's the reason no one gives a shit about Doomsday, who was literally created just to "kill" Superman, but yet Joker is one of the most iconic villains of all time. It's like you have no idea what makes a good character.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend that knowing exactly what makes the Joker tick is a good idea, but "humanizing" him to the point that we can start to understand some of the method behind his madness isn't a bad thing.

He's popular because he is unpredictable and he's the opposite side of the coin to the cool and level headed Batman. What makes him so entertaining is how they play off of each other. He has no real motives beyond finding the chaos that follows his atrocities funny. His character development is in the fact that his plans are elaborate for someone so insane. You can watch any of the animated shows or the live action movies or read the comic and he's very much the same "I do terrible things because I'm bored and its funny." He's not some incredibly in-depth thoughtful person that has a deep narrative.

Nearly all of Batman's villains are just humans and they either don't have a super power or it is not incredibly powerful to the point where Batman couldn't physically or mentally go toe to toe with them. Hell, Batman is such a genius that he literally has contingency plans in case one of his fellow heroes goes rogue. Almost all of them are iconic and nearly all of them wouldn't stand a chance against the Justice League other than being able to trick, trap, or outsmart them and that is what makes them compelling. They often do just that, until they are defeated of course.

Even if you've only seen the Dark Knight movies (which I'm guessing is the extent of your knowledge?), you can see how there isn't reason behind his madness. He robs a ton of banks only to burn his share of the money because he's not fueled by greed. He toys with Batman to chose between two people close to him and purposefully gives Batman the wrong address so killing his former girlfriend would shatter him. He sets up bombs on boats and makes people chose if their life is equivalent to people on another boat (criminals versus regular citizens).

[seleri]

I want to be excited since I love the Batman mythos but we haven't had an entertaining live action Batman in over two decades. Not sure how well this one's going to go. Especially since, of any comic character to pick an origin story for the Joker was probably the worst possible choice. I suspect it may turn out to be an okay movie in general, simply because of the talent involved, but a terrible Joker/Batman/comic book movie.

Won't be seeing it in theaters though, so guess I'll have to wait until it comes out on digital to see for myself.

[Highelf]

Just watch the show Gotham for a backstory of Joker. This movie was not necessary and no one asked for it.