Joker [with Joaquin Phoenix]

[Shadowferal]

DC doesn't need to compete to make money.
Their movies may not get Marvel's numbers, but certainly doesn't mean that they're not making big profits.

And with Wonder Woman, and now Aquaman, they don't need to play up some silly "competition." The corporate heads just need to take a hands-off approach.

[Leyre]

Vamonos vamonos

[cubby]

Getting pushed around and beaten up is a pretty boring reason to becoming one of the most iconic super villains in comic book history.

But if it's done right, it could really present a frighteningly simple reason why and how someone "found their path". I get what you're saying, but if the path to super villainy could come from a death of a thousand cuts, it makes it even more personal.

Ledger will probably always be the best joker. But Phoenix wouldn't have signed on to a shitty script. And the first preview looks pretty good.

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Heath Ledger's Joker was great because they never gave him a clear backstory. The Joker is an agent of chaos. Trying to humanize him fails the character.

I potentially disagree. If done right, it could make the iconism that much stronger. But they are going to have to thread the needle well.

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Interesting. The writer/director has a history of comedies only. It must be an amazing script.

[Jastall]

Now that's a good trailer, with just the vibes I expected, and Joaquin Phoenix is perfect for the role on top of being a world-class actor.

All that said, I still temper my expectations. Suicide Squad's trailers also looked good, and we know what happened to that.

[Th3Scourge]

Heath Ledger's Joker was great because they never gave him a clear backstory. The Joker is an agent of chaos. Trying to humanize him fails the character.

Yeah that's true actually, on a few occasions he changes his "wanna know how I got these scars" story and all we really know is that he hates his father. Filling in the gaps removes the mystery around his motives and tries to rationalise his chaos

[Jastall]

You keep mentioning someone bullying him, but that's a really single-minded way of looking at tragic characters. I already mentioned Macbeth in this thread as a strong example of a character who has a tragic story yet also becomes a villain whose actions are totally unjustifiable. I don't disagree with your description of The Joker at all, but that description doesn't preclude him from being a tragic character unless he was born that way.

A tragic character is just one who has a fall from status and ends up being villainous. It doesn't mean they have to be a bullied kid, nor that they are out seeking revenge. They can be driven by basically anything, including their own unhinged mental machinations.

Agreed, showing the Joker's origin and why he does things doesn't have to correlate with making him really sympathetic (which would be silly, he's a mass murdering psychopath, period); reasons aren't justifications. Hell, for a good example of that, take Thanos in Infinity War. The movie focuses about him above anyone else, he gets the most character development out of anyone and has his backstory explained in depth, but he's still the villain that has to be stopped before he murders countless beings. Or Walter White in Breaking Bad who might be a cool badass that got spit on earlier in his life, but remains a murderous, extremely ruthless drug kingpin when all's said and done.

They might do the same thing here. Show you how and why the Joker became, well, the Joker without necessarily expecting him to be anything but the bad guy. Hell, anyone who has read Dark Knight Returns might start getting a bit uncomfortable at the idea of Joker getting on the stage of a talk show...

[Kyphael]

Hope this replaces the awful Jared Leto Joker. Looks so good.

[Monster Hunter]

I liked the trailer. Left much to explore and even what kind of movie it will be. When I first saw the makeup I was skeptical but it seems to work. Currently the most anticipated movie for me.

i think what i like most about the joker as a villain is, really hes just the "one bad day" concept, there is no official joker so we can have all these different takes on him, different takes on his relationship with Gotham and batman that you just don't get with other villains.

[Coldfrostzero]

I'm a huge DC fan, but I just can't get over the fact that at no point in the trailer does he even look slightly like The Joker. Even Ledger's Joker looked more like The Joker.



And this. The Joker just is ... and that's part of what makes him so interesting. I actually don't want a backstory for The Joker.

The only way that it will be good is if the there is the "twist" of him being an unreliable narrator and it kind of jumping into the future or today with him basically saying everything you watched may or may not have been real.

[BarelyLegalBear]

Looks decent, but not sure how I feel about Joaquin. I want Cameron Monaghan from Gotham to be The Joker.

[s_bushido]

The only way that it will be good is if the there is the "twist" of him being an unreliable narrator and it kind of jumping into the future or today with him basically saying everything you watched may or may not have been real.

...what? That's the only way it will be good?

Not if it has a good story or good performances...but only if it fits your preconceptions of what the Joker should be?

I would have thought that this would be the one character that fans wouldn't have a problem with seeing different sides of, given that he is so crazy and (seemingly) purposefully left open to interpretation.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Looks pretty good son far. I’ll admit I’m a little concerned this will fail.

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I am talking about how a movie that tries to portray a psychopathic killer as sympathetic and (somewhat) justified in his actions will be popular with edge lords. Nothing more.

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Heath Ledger's Joker was great because they never gave him a clear backstory. The Joker is an agent of chaos. Trying to humanize him fails the character.

All true You’re right.

[Nilinor]

I am going to make the very bold prediction:

This backstory is told by Joker to Harley Quinzel during their interviews to garner sympathy for him. The movie ending with her willing to break him out of Arkham cause she feels sorry for him and falls in love with him. As she walks away, he starts to get the evil smile.

[Wermys]

This looks like it has a lot of potential. Vaguely reminds me of Falling Down, and where he eventually just snaps after something happens like his mom dying.

[Ozyorkbourne]

did you not like Aquaman or Wonder Woman?

WW wasn't the worst film I've ever seen but it had some glaring problems. Like massive flaws that just shouldn't have been there. Add in the recycled footage from the church jump and the ending jump then it just felt half arsed for something that could have been so good.

[announced]

Looks very interesting. I don't think anyone will ever top Ledger's joker but Joaquin Phoenix can sure try.

[PACOX]

Trailer looks interesting but...I can't really get into a movie where I'm supposed to feel some sort of empathy for a sadistic mass murdering psycho. I mean he was supposed to be all about being crazy as fuck, an avatar of chaos in the worst way.

And yes, the inevitable comparison will be made against Heath Ledjar's role, which between the script and the acting made the Joker into some anthropomorphic catastrophe. His allure made him terrifying.

I will wait and see...and watch it with low expectations. (Phoenix wasn't a bad choice I admit)

I bet that sense of sympathy for the character will get thrown out of the window throughout the movie.

Part of Joker's mythos is taking things that are viewed as acceptable and perverting them.

You prank someone buy putting sugar in their salt shaker. He says he can make the joke better and puts cyanide in it. In the Joker's mind if you're going to prank someone you prank them all the way. Theres no room for empathy or remorse.

Just my prediction, he will start out as relatable but then take his actions to extremes.

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DC doesn't need to compete to make money.
Their movies may not get Marvel's numbers, but certainly doesn't mean that they're not making big profits.

And with Wonder Woman, and now Aquaman, they don't need to play up some silly "competition." The corporate heads just need to take a hands-off approach.

Thats DCs problem. They keep trying to emulate MCU instead of doing their own thing. Thats how BvS and Suicide Squad tripped over their own toes and Justice League was forgettable. I'd argue that DC had the best run of comicbook movies before they tried to copy the MCU formula. Hell, their cartoons are still better than Marvel's. Hopefully this soft reboot works.

[Ophenia]

Looks very promising. I really like the disconnected DC movies a lot.

At first I thought that was a young Bruce Wayne at 1:48, but I think I read they cast someone as the Bat already...? Still looks like a dark-haired kid in a fancy outfit in front of a house with a big garden, so I though this might be Dick Greyson, after losing his parents.

No no that's him.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7286456...f_=tt_ov_st_sm
Dante Pereira-Olson is playing "Young Bruce Wayne".

The trailer is surprising. They try to take another route, we'll see where it leads. I'm all in for this kind of writing, but I hope they at least try to keep some links with one of the original Joker story. I hope that his personality is not just the result of his depression.
Hoping for a bit of "action" too. Not necessarily some Avengers CGI-filled action, but some bank robbing or whatever.

Could Thomas Wayne possibly be the antagonist, if Batman is totally out of the movie as it seems ?

[Gallahadd]

I don't disagree though that they could easily double-down on animated films, but people in general get turned off by animation and especially adult animation that isn't stupid Family Guy.

While I don’t disagree, in principle... people are KINDA stupid, and will accept anything, if it’s done well enough.

I mean, shit... go back ten or so years and people weren’t that accepting or comic book films. They were fine with Batman, Superman, and Luke warm towards Spods... but anything more niche than that, and they’d ignore it.

But now, the MCU is a license to print money, and some of the more successful films in that universe are the ones that previously even some comic fans hadn’t cared about (looking at you, Guardians).

So, if DC could put out big budget, really well made animated movies, and give them the kind of financial backing that it gives its love acrion stuff... I’m sure they’d do just as well, if not better.

[Yunru]

It seems a bit off. Originaly Joker was a red hood before falling into chemicals.