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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloppynacho View Post
    Judging somebody by their spelling just shows how much you need to grow up. Ofcourse my spelling is in influenced by American culture, isn't it globally? What a weak statement. Lets talk about Brexit.
    It's america best, eu sucks guy. Just report him and move on, he pops up every few days with a new burner account.

  2. #442
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloppynacho View Post
    This guy. haha. Calling Greenwald a scumbag for what? Because he worked with Edward Snowden? And leaked classified information responsibly? If Greenwald would never worked with Edward Snowden you wouldnt have ever mentioned his name or a scumbar. Just shows you your personal hypocritical motives.
    Nobody went to jail for spying the whole world. There is something fundamentaly wrong with United States.
    Actually I thought Greenwald was a scumbag years before Snowden. You ever read his diatribes in the Guardian Comment-is-free, when he worked there?

    In fact, when Snowden happened, I was disgusted not just at the fact that an American had betrayed his country in such a damaging way, but he found partnership with Glen-fucking-Greenwald of all journalists. If Snowden had gone to legitimately any other journalist I wouldn't have said that. But Greenwald has been a few cards short of a full deck, for some time now.
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  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Just came out. The indictment.
    https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr...ing-conspiracy
    https://www.justice.gov/usao-edva/pr...53481/download



    And let's be clear. This is just the 2010 indictment for the Manning stuff. The five years he gets is just for the initial round, probably to make it palatable to the British. Once he is in our custody, if prior experience is any indication, he'll get hit with a hell of a lot more charges.
    5 years max for conspiracy doesn't seem that harsh. What charges could be brought up besides that?

  4. #444
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Assange is being charged with hacking and fraud, not publication of materials.

    That's how the government got around the whole "journalism" thing.

    Assange defenders lose again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    5 years max for conspiracy doesn't seem that harsh. What charges could be brought up besides that?
    There were other major data theft crimes he is involved in.

    - The Snowden Affair

    - The 2016 DNC Hack / Podesta emails / Russian Election interference.

    The charges is if facing now, it seems, relate to the 2010 US Diplomatic Cables Leak that came from Bradley Manning. Manning got 35 years for that, until Obama commuted his sentence after 7 years.
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  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by roboscorcher View Post
    So what is going to happen to him now? Is a government going to swoop him up? If so, which one?

    I don't know much about the guy beyond wikileaks and his possible connections to Roger Stone and the Kremlin. He did an AMA in 2016 right after the elections claiming to be unbiased, and most redditors weren't having it. AFAIK, his motives are questionable at best.
    We'll never hear a peep about him ever again.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by roboscorcher View Post
    Here's a question: if a trans person could switch everything but their chromosomes, would they pass? What if they can, in the future? Where will you move the goalposts then? It's like Theseus' ship: if you were to slowly replace all of the parts of a boat with a different boat, at what point does it stop being the first boat?

    Reality is, if someone can pass as the other gender "on the outside", there is effectively no difference to people on the outside. Trans people existing have no effect on your life, unless you start a relationship with one of them. This is a *fact*, and the only reason you don't like them is because you *feel* it's wrong. There is no natural law saying switching genders is wrong. Some species even switch genders, biology and all.
    This isn't the place to get into a debate about biology. All I will say is that I never said I "hate" anything. That's your own terrible unsubstantiated assumption

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    opinion is my word. US intelligence is quite clear in their public statements that the relationship is definitive. That will be presented in court, if and when he is tried.

    But let's be clear about something, because it'll be easy to confuse this crucial point. Right now, Wikileaks (the brand) IS Julian Assange and Julian Assange is Wikileaks. It was not always so. Just under a decade ago he had a much larger group who worked with him and built all sorts of infrastructure. That, let's call it "Wikileaks 1.0", is the stuff that got the Bradley Manning dump. But it fell apart, again, about 8 years ago or so, because almost all of those people who worked with Assange found him to be impossible to work with, a sociopath, and just a shit person. They split off and founded their own leaks sites (not sure what happened to those).

    Since then, particularly since he locked himself in the Ecuadorean Embassy, "Wikileaks 2.0" has been Assange and a tiny handful of people on the outside helping with administration. That's why Wikileaks has been a slow moving dinosaur in terms of new tech to facilitate leaking and in terms of dumps. Because it's pretty much a one man job. Somewhere along the line, between Wikileaks 1.0 and 2.0, Assange fell in with Russian Intelligence. Probably to stay in the game and stay relevant (is associates describe him as obsessed with being a global figure). The leaks had to come from somewhere, so Russian intelligence grabbed them and gave them to the mostly one-man-show Wikileaks had become, because it was a Western-oriented "brand name".

    Consider... what has been the most substantial leak from Wikileaks that did not benefit Russia in the past 8 years? There hasn't been one. But there has been an absolutely major leak agaisnt - the Panama Papers, which Wikileaks had nothing to do with, and even shit talked.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I hate Trump because I'm ardently pro-American.

    Trump is the debasement of America. He's an abomination.
    I feel like your exceedingly long posts require some type of EU-mandated fake news label by now, considering how wrong you've now been for years about nearly everything you smugly type away for paragraphs about. I greatly look forward to your next emoji-titled shitpost thread that you abandon and act like never happened when you take another massive L to the dome.

  8. #448
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roboscorcher View Post
    So what is going to happen to him now? Is a government going to swoop him up? If so, which one?

    I don't know much about the guy beyond wikileaks and his possible connections to Roger Stone and the Kremlin. He did an AMA in 2016 right after the elections claiming to be unbiased, and most redditors weren't having it. AFAIK, his motives are questionable at best.
    British legal system will process him and decide if the US extradition request has merit and that he won't face capital punishment if sent here (he won't).

    Given the close ties legal and intelligence ties between the US and UK, it'll be very hard for him to avoid being sent here. He was in the way-wrong country (hell, the wrong continent) when he decided to crawl into Ecuador's embassy.
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  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Surreality View Post
    This isn't the place to get into a debate about biology. All I will say is that I never said I "hate" anything. That's your own terrible unsubstantiated assumption
    If you're going to pull the "facts don't care about your feelings" taunt, don't be surprised when I give you facts.

  10. #450
    Pandaren Monk CostinR's Avatar
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    I see @Skroe is on a war path here, hmm should be fun.

    Regarding Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning, who I call that way because I don't wanna have this stuck over idiotic transgender political BS, I think it's very important to remember what these two ACTUALLY did, what was the net effect of those leaks. Snowden leaked some vital info to the public while also having info that may or may not have given a significant edge to Russian intelligence.

    But Assange and Manning? Oh no. They didn't just screw over some intel operations, or reveal some embarrassing information. No they leaked highly damaging information about politicians in the Middle East that served in many ways as a catalyst for the Arab Spring...yeah the same Arab Spring that led to devastating civil wars, half a million dead in the region, easily over 10 million internal and external refugees for Syria alone.

    All for what exactly? So Assange could feel like some great hero? He ain't no fucking hero, nor is Manning. Because what was leaked sure as hell wasn't just some video of a war crime in Iraq.
    Last edited by CostinR; 2019-04-11 at 01:42 PM.
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  11. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    I feel like your exceedingly long posts require some type of EU-mandated fake news label by now, considering how wrong you've now been for years about nearly everything you smugly type away for paragraphs about. I greatly look forward to your next emoji-titled shitpost thread that you abandon and act like never happened when you take another massive L to the dome.
    Some ad hominem, some baiting... care to add anything on topic?

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Actually I thought Greenwald was a scumbag years before Snowden. You ever read his diatribes in the Guardian Comment-is-free, when he worked there?

    In fact, when Snowden happened, I was disgusted not just at the fact that an American had betrayed his country in such a damaging way, but he found partnership with Glen-fucking-Greenwald of all journalists. If Snowden had gone to legitimately any other journalist I wouldn't have said that. But Greenwald has been a few cards short of a full deck, for some time now.
    Alright i can't argue that but It's hillarious to see that true Americans like yourself struggle with your own believes and morals. You want Assange be jailed for cybercrimes, theft and espionage but thanks to Edward Snowden reveals, America has been doing the same on a global scale? Isnt that cherry picking? Or does America stand above its own laws and morals? Then lets talk about justice. Isnt it justice that america reputation is damaged due to the fact they have been illegally spying the whole world?

    Why blame Edward Snowden or Greenwall for that? If America didnt illegaly do this, then edward snowden would have never needed to leak it in the first place. Isnt that what a justice system with witnesses is build on? Edward was a witness who confessed illegal activies in a responsible manner unlike Assange or brendan. You can't cherry pick justice hypocrite.
    Last edited by Sloppynacho; 2019-04-11 at 01:44 PM.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Some ad hominem, some baiting... care to add anything on topic?
    Sure. I hope that Assange is allowed a platform in whatever prosecution takes place to burn as many people as possible.

    What's the purpose of your post, btw?
    Last edited by Sulla; 2019-04-11 at 01:43 PM.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Girighet View Post
    I'm not a judge.
    And yet you're judging. You dont know whether he is or not. Its more likely that whole allegation was set up to demonize him. I dont care what happens to him per say but its just too simple a story to demonize someone by saying they're a rapist without evidence. Two women went to police to track him down for an STI test and that led to rape allegations? They didnt go there to report rape yet thats what come of it. Had that been someone called Harry Cross would a rape allegation have been made? I dont think so but like you, i dont know the facts behind it all so i cant say for sure whether its true or not.

    And without facts, everything is presumption and here say.

  15. #455
    5 years for helping manning break into secure computers. Lol he was ratted out.
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  16. #456
    The Unstoppable Force Skroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    I see @Skroe is on a war path here, hmm should be fun.

    Regarding Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning, who I call that way because I don't wanna have this stuck over idiotic transgender political BS, I think it's very important to remember what these two ACTUALLY did, what was the net effect of those leaks. Snowden leaked some vital info to the public while also having info that may or may not have given a significant edge to Russian intelligence.

    But Assange and Manning? Oh no. They didn't just screw over some intel operations, or reveal some embarrassing information. No they leaked highly damaging information about politicians in the Middle East that served in many ways as a catalyst for the Arab Spring...yeah the same Arab Spring that led to devastating civil wars, half a million dead in the region, easily over 10 million internal and external refugees for Syria alone.

    All for what exactly? So Assange could feel like some great hero? He ain't no fucking hero.
    What can I say? I like seeing wrongdoing brought to justice.

    As for Assange, I'll just let a former associate speak as to that:

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclus...julian-assange

    We agreed on a simple line: Julian was WikiLeaks’ founder and editor, and had its full support—but his court issues were a private matter, and we were getting on with publishing 251,000 embassy cables.

    That line wasn’t acceptable to Julian. Within 24 hours, once he’d had word, he reversed it. Julian’s fight was WikiLeaks’ fight. This was a freedom-of-speech issue, not a sex-offense trial. We’d just have to live with it. Consequently, for the last three years, huge and significant Internet freedom issues have played second fiddle to one man’s melodrama.

    All of that is distasteful. But it’s not why I quit.

    The reason I quit was because of a friend of Julian’s whose activities were unstomachable and unforgivable. That man was Israel Shamir. Shamir is an anti-Semitic writer, a supporter of the dictator of Belarus, and a man with ties and friends in Russian security services. He and Julian—unknown to us—had been in friendly contact for years. It was a friendship that would have serious consequences.

    Introduced to WikiLeaks staff and supporters under a false name, Shamir was given direct access to more than 90,000 of the U.S. Embassy cables, covering Russia, all of Eastern Europe, parts of the Middle East, and Israel. This was, for quite some time, denied by WikiLeaks. But that’s never a denial I’ve found convincing: the reason I know he has them is that I gave them to him, at Assange’s orders, not knowing who he was.

    Why did this prove to be a grave mistake? Not just for Shamir’s views, which are easy to Google, but for what he did next. The first hints of trouble came through contacts from various Putin-influenced Russian media outlets. A pro-Putin outlet got in touch to say Shamir had been asking for $10,000 for access to the cables. He was selling the material we were working to give away free, to responsible outlets.

    Worse was to come. The NGO Index on Censorship sent a string of questions and some photographic evidence, suggesting Shamir had given the cables to Alexander Lukashenko of Belarus, Europe’s last dictator. Shamir had written a pro-Belarus article, shortly before photos emerged of him leaving the interior ministry. The day after, Belarus’s dictator gave a speech saying he was establishing a WikiLeaks for Belarus, citing some stories and information appearing in the genuine (and then unpublished) cables.

    Assange refused and blocked any attempts at investigation, and released public statements that were simply untrue.

    Disturbingly, Assange seems to have a personal motivation for staying friendly with Shamir. Shamir’s son, Johannes Wahlstrom, is apparently being called as one of Assange’s defense witnesses in his Swedish trial. That’s not the only time self has come before principle.

    On other occasions, Assange’s selfishness needlessly risked WikiLeaks financial future.

    When first trying to gain bail money, Assange sought to empty WikiLeaks’ bank accounts to pay the cash (a scheme which would never have worked given the rules). But luckily for WikiLeaks, the trustees of the organization’s then-main bank account, the Wau Holland foundation, rightly refused the request, which would have all but cleared out the account. Given the duration of the banking blockade, that money eventually had to last around 18 months. Had Assange got his way, the money that got WikiLeaks through the blockade wouldn’t have been there.

    The final straw was—as it always is—the attempted cover-up. In November 2010, WikiLeaks asked everyone who worked there to sign a nondisclosure agreement (NDA) covering the material we were being given access to—not to sell it, disclose without permission, or similar. Given the importance of what we were working on, that seemed reasonable. Everyone, including me, signed.

    By January, the situation had changed. With me and others concerned about what we saw as ethical lapses left, right, and center, Assange produced a new NDA, silencing anyone who signed it for a full decade against saying a word about WikiLeaks activities, on the pain of millions of dollars of penalties.

    Faced with the bizarre situation of being asked to sign a gag order by a whistleblowing organization, I, alone, refused. Encouraged by Julian (I later learned), WikiLeaks staffers kept me up until 3 a.m. pressuring me to sign. Early the next morning, I awoke with Assange sat on my bed, pressuring me to sign—even before I was dressed. I held out, eventually left our remote location, and didn’t go back.

    This is the mess you get into when you buy into the “noble lie,” as Julian willingly does.

    Eventually, you’ve got to back your claims up. And that’s what is needed: people to really believe in the principles WikiLeaks supposedly stands for, rather than in a cartoon hero or villain figure.

    The consequences of mistakes, of arrogance, of division, are all too real.

    Assange isn’t entirely venal. His problem is “noble cause” corruption: behavior he’d rightly condemn in others, he excuses in himself, because he believes, at his core, he is the good guy.

    Myself, I’m reminded of the conclusion of George Orwell’s Animal Farm: Julian Assange has become everything he originally, rightly, despised.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloppynacho View Post
    Alright i can't argue that but It's hillarious to see that true Americans like yourself struggle with your own believes and morals. You want Assange be jailed for cybercrimes, theft and espionage but thanks to Edward Snowden reveals, America has been doing the same on a global scale? Isnt that cherry picking? Or does America stand above its own laws and morals? Then lets talk about justice. Isnt it justice that america reputation is damaged due to the fact they have been illegally spying the whole world?

    Why blame Edward Snowden or Greenwall for that? If America didnt illegaly do this, then edward snowden would have never needed to leak it in the first place. Isnt that what a justice system with witnesses is build on? Edward was a witness who confessed illegal activies in a responsible manner unlike Assange or brendan. You can't cherry pick justice hypocrite.
    Almost everything exposed by the three big leaks (State Department Cables, NSA Leaks, DNC leaks) facilitated by Wikileaks were perfectly legal and consistent with US national security interests.

    The State Department Cables made the US look really good actually. The DNC leaks showed nothing other than the DNC favoring Clinton over Sanders. The NSA leaks were about 5% shady shit and 95% perfectly legitimate shit.

    The US has every right to use every means at its diposal to gather intelligence on the world, particularly Russia and China. That is not a crime.

    So no, there is no similarity between Assange and the US.

    Lastly, on the notion of "hypocrisy", folks usually work out that when their teenagers. Yes, the United States of America is periodically a massive hypocrite. What's your point? *Bites apple*.
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  17. #457
    I am Murloc! unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    Sure. I hope that Assange is allowed a platform in whatever prosecution takes place to burn as many people as possible.

    What's the purpose of your post, btw?
    Just pointing out shit on the sidewalk so others don't track it in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Destroyer of Leftism View Post
    He destroyed nothing. His posts are nothing but lies, strawman and degeneracy.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    What can I say? I like seeing wrongdoing brought to justice.

    As for Assange, I'll just let a former associate speak as to that:
    You like wrongdoing brought to justice? What?! Then why are you defending your shithole 3th world country and blame Edward Snowden and Greenwald for damaging the reputation of America. While infact and America admitted themselves they illegaly steal and store data globally? And you want Assange to be in jail for the exact same thing? A true American hypocrite.

  19. #459
    I am Murloc! unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloppynacho View Post
    You like wrongdoing brought to justice? What?! Then why are you defending your shithole 3th world country and blame Edward Snowden and Greenwald for damaging the reputation of America. While infact and America admitted themselves they illegaly steal and store data globally? And you want Assange to be in jail for the exact same thing? A true American hypocrite.
    Thirdf is a funny word.
    Quote Originally Posted by Destroyer of Leftism View Post
    He destroyed nothing. His posts are nothing but lies, strawman and degeneracy.

  20. #460
    I am Murloc!
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    Heh. Good luck to him.

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