Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #61
    The Lightbringer Niwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    DISCLAIMER! This thread is not about if we should get more specs. It is just a reference.

    It seems Blizzard are listening to us in some degree and are willing to put their own egos aside to please the players. Kudos to Blizzard for that.

    However they are still making bad excuses and lying to us. The lastet example:

    "There are no plans to add a fourth spec option to existing classes in the near future. Another spec would add a lot more complications to someone learning the game."

    Just say it as it is:

    "There are no plans to add a fourth spec option to existing classes in the near future. More specs would make the game more challenging to balance and result in more work for us.

    The point is: Just keep it real Blizzard. Tell us your truth. Don't keep us in the dark and come with whole "new player learning curve" bs. Thanks.
    Exactly. 100% agree.

    Thought exactly the same. And believe thats the truth. And vote for the same as OP, if Blizzard has the least form of balls.

    And yes, i know how marketing works. I am in a similar business like Blizz since more than 20 years. But i am sure as hell, that customers are not that stupid, big companies thinks, and that they would earn way more money and success if they would be just true and honest and say what it is like, instead hiding behind some marketing shit, from which they hope it protects them from loosing players, if players do not hear what they want or what is considered as non-damaging.

    or in short: its better to have balls and speak clearly instead telling what marketing say bc they believe its investment protection. ppl are not that stupid. and not that slushy to run away if you tell them „this stuff costs time/money“.

    idiots...

    wanna know what i would do ? the same greg street did (even when i do not liked the guy):

    lay the ppl down, what a fourth spec really means in terms of effort, in 3-4 sentences. and then explain ppl that you have a budget and how you think its best invested. try (like greg street did) that ppl understand why you do or not do thinks. and do not try to hide reasons like „we do not wanna invest money for that“. ppl understand that. and if they understand the reasons, they will accpet it.

    after that, ppl would realize that you already rinse and repeat the same ideas for class mechanics and more of that would it even made worse. balancing would be way more expensive. and since thre is a gap between worst and best spec of 15%, this would be even more. also you cant have endless ideas, when you wanna have a good balancable system. and it would bring relatively low input to the game, but with a HUGE investment.

    every 12 year old kid would understand that a 4th spec is a horrible stupid investment and addition to wow. if explained. but instead explaining it to ppl, to make the state of blizz devs mindset and ppls mindset the same, they come with that marketing statements.

    but thats way too high for that morons that work today in irvine.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2019-04-06 at 01:58 PM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    I'm not sure how much experience you have working as a public spokesperson for a product development company, but could it be that they're actually telling us *their side* of the story? Their viewpoint?

    Perhaps balancing stuff is one concern they have, but maybe their top concern right now is new player retention? It certainly sounds like that.
    That's probably not going to be top of mind for every MMOC forum poster, but to say Blizzard is lying without actually knowing seems a bit strange.

    Also that "true MMORPG" stuff is just bullshit. You're not the gatekeeper of any truisms.
    It wasnt me who invented the RPG genre. Why are you calling me the gatekeeper of truth?

    Everyone knows RPGs are known for customization via talents or stats.

    A have my eyes opened since the talent tree changes and i witnessed many things being said...and done.
    Like for example the 50% nerf to all azerites in PvP

    You see that and easily come to the conclusion that Blizzard just dont want to get any extra work with balancing.
    Is as clear as day after the 50% nerf to all azerites in PvP.

    They dont give a Fu**
    BOOM nerf to all biatxes, no more need to balance this crap altogether.

    This is the mentality of Blizzard since the talent changes.
    They simply dont want to have any work balancing the game.

  3. #63
    We dont even need 4th spec... Come on. New classes are fine but another spec will make it make it too hard to balance and also, do we rly need 4 dps spec on classes like mages or rogues?

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    It wasnt me who invented the RPG genre. Why are you calling me the gatekeeper of truth?
    Because you seem to talk about "true RPG's". Go listen to Mike Mearls or Chris Perkins talk about the "right way to play". There is no "True RPG". Let people find their own fun instead of forcing your version of it. If WoW doesn't deliver it to you, there are other games.

  5. #65
    This is capitalism. No one’s going to “keep it real.”

  6. #66
    The Lightbringer Niwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    Do you understand how many viewpoints there are to any single issue? Just look at any design related thread here. They spiral off to 20 pages of wildly different opinions and arguments about everything. There's no single truth to 100 different questions.

    I don't know what kind of world you guys live in - but how many companies actually sit down with fans for "real talk" to answer to all their questions? There's a limit how you want to use your time.

    They have their priorities - I'm sure that list contains most of the topics we roll with here, but do they need to communicate all of them? No, they just said what was at top of their minds right now (new player retention, it seems). Maybe that was not the answer you personally were looking for, but the end result is the same.

    I'm all for better communication from Blizzard (I'd like them to post more dev watercoolers to give us a bit of light into their development meta), but you guys want some kind of utopian comms department where you can just shout in any made up shit (like 4th specs) and expect 1 hour comprehensive documentary of why it is not possible right now.
    if you target a two sided communication, you are right. thats utopian.

    but to lay down your mindset and have the balls to speak clearly whats going on when they decide things, to one way communicate with open cards, to make a official blue post to some bigger or impacting changes not 4 lines but 40 lines long, all of this is NOT utopian. all of this made i.e. WOTLK a way better xpac life time, because this meta things were there. GC (greg street) talked to the ppl and did his best to guarantee that ppl can understand what blizzards mindset is and where they comin from. this ALREADY worked.

    but since its all about cost effective development and activi$$ion blizzgreed dollar dollar bill ya, these morons arent even able to do that.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2019-04-06 at 02:12 PM.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    but to lay down your mindset and have the balls to speak clearly whats going on when they decide things, to one way communicate with open cards, to make a official blue post to some bigger or impacting changes not 4 lines but 40 lines long, all of this is NOT utopian.
    No. I fully agree with that. And I miss the dev watercoolers a lot.
    The stuff OP brought up though is just lolz though.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    Because you seem to talk about "true RPG's". Go listen to Mike Mearls or Chris Perkins talk about the "right way to play". There is no "True RPG". Let people find their own fun instead of forcing your version of it. If WoW doesn't deliver it to you, there are other games.
    So if i ask you "what is more RPG-like? WotLK talent trees or MoP's talent trees?"

    You dont have an asnwer for me?

  9. #69
    The Lightbringer Niwes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,700
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    It wasnt me who invented the RPG genre. Why are you calling me the gatekeeper of truth?

    Everyone knows RPGs are known for customization via talents or stats.

    A have my eyes opened since the talent tree changes and i witnessed many things being said...and done.
    Like for example the 50% nerf to all azerites in PvP

    You see that and easily come to the conclusion that Blizzard just dont want to get any extra work with balancing.
    Is as clear as day after the 50% nerf to all azerites in PvP.

    They dont give a Fu**
    BOOM nerf to all biatxes, no more need to balance this crap altogether.

    This is the mentality of Blizzard since the talent changes.
    They simply dont want to have any work balancing the game.

    they do not wanna have work with anything.

    look at all the QoL changes. most of them support the development.

    regardless if
    - builder/consumer pattern on every class for easier balancing
    - ability prune for easier maintaining
    - autogenerated gear instead loot lists
    - autogenerated scenarios
    - recycled content
    - cheap cash grab systems like token
    ...

    ALL of that has only one goal: lower investment and higher profit. ALL of them targets cost effective development. „invest the lowest possible effort while making the highest possible profit.“ this is the mantra since years. and its obviously like hell.

    or in short: milk the cow as effective as possible.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    So if i ask you "what is more RPG-like? WotLK talent trees or MoP's talent trees?"

    You dont have an asnwer for me?
    My answer is, half of the people like WotLK and half like MoP. Who the fuck cares? Play games you like. Don't play games you don't like.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    My answer is, half of the people like WotLK and half like MoP. Who the fuck cares? Play games you like. Don't play games you don't like.
    Oh, you are dismissing an actual conversation on the matter and just telling me to play another game....cmon man

    The fun part is that nowadays if you want to play "something different" you need to play another class.
    Because 1 class/spec is no longer a playground of customization.
    If you get tired of one spec....thats it, you are done.
    You need to start playing another class.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    Do you understand how many viewpoints there are to any single issue? Just look at any design related thread here. They spiral off to 20 pages of wildly different opinions and arguments about everything. There's no single truth to 100 different questions.

    I don't know what kind of world you guys live in - but how many companies actually sit down with fans for "real talk" to answer to all their questions? There's a limit how you want to use your time.

    They have their priorities - I'm sure that list contains most of the topics we roll with here, but do they need to communicate all of them? No, they just said what was at top of their minds right now (new player retention, it seems). Maybe that was not the answer you personally were looking for, but the end result is the same.

    I'm all for better communication from Blizzard (I'd like them to post more dev watercoolers to give us a bit of light into their development meta), but you guys want some kind of utopian comms department where you can just shout in any made up shit (like 4th specs) and expect 1 hour comprehensive documentary of why it is not possible right now.
    No I just want real answers when they do communicate.

  13. #73
    if no spec is complicated, how are then there so many differences between players on WCL alone?
    Players with almost same gear doing 12k on same boss and players doing 24k. No matter if we call specs dumbed down or not, there will always be a way to play it in a good way and in a bad way. And that's why mmo's and pvp games are awesome. With same conditions, different results.
    "Ahhh ahhhhh, ahhh, yeah, ahhhh, YEAH, YEAH, RIGHT THERE, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhh" Jenna Jameson

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    No I just want real answers when they do communicate.
    You want to have fun with the past?
    Just check the "excuses" about Talent trees:


    First in Cataclysm
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Some players miss true hybrid builds. (Hybrid in this context means spending near evenly in two trees -- I’m not talking about the more common use of “hybrid” as a tank or healing class.) To be fair, these builds were either not very competitive or were just cherry picking a few powerful talents in order to create something that was likely overpowered, especially in PvP. In other words, the reality of the hybrid build never lived up to the myth. But it’s fair to say that it’s impossible now to have a hybrid build, and we understand some players want them back.

    Then the ultimate blow in MOP
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Look, we tried the talent tree model for seven years. We think it’s fundamentally flawed and unfixable. We know some of you have faith in us that someday we’ll eventually replace all of the boring +5% crit talents with interesting talents and give you 80 talent points that you can spend wherever, and that the game will still remain relatively balanced and fun. We greatly appreciate your faith, but we fear it is misplaced. It’s not a matter of coming up with enough fun mechanics, which is challenging but ultimately doable. The problem is the extreme number of combinations. When you have such a gigantic matrix, the chances of having unbeatable synergies, or combinations of talents that just don’t work together is really high. That’s not lazy design. That is recognizing how math works.

    So given that we don’t think it’s humanly possible to have 40-50 fun, interesting and balanced talents in a tree, the alternative is to continue on with bloated trees that have a ton of inconsequential talents that you have to slog through to get to the fun stuff. A lot of you guys have stuck with us for years, continue to play regularly, and still love World of Warcraft. You are the reason we’re still making this game. We think you deserve better, and we think we can do better.
    And ultimately the 50% nerf to all azerites in PvP just to stab me on the back yet again.

    Have fun reading here:
    https://pt.wowhead.com/news=190220.2...ee-post-mortem
    and
    https://pt.wowhead.com/news=198422/d...e-talent-trees

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    You want to have fun with the past?
    Just check the "excuses" about Talent trees:


    First in Cataclysm
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Some players miss true hybrid builds. (Hybrid in this context means spending near evenly in two trees -- I’m not talking about the more common use of “hybrid” as a tank or healing class.) To be fair, these builds were either not very competitive or were just cherry picking a few powerful talents in order to create something that was likely overpowered, especially in PvP. In other words, the reality of the hybrid build never lived up to the myth. But it’s fair to say that it’s impossible now to have a hybrid build, and we understand some players want them back.

    Then the ultimate blow in MOP
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Look, we tried the talent tree model for seven years. We think it’s fundamentally flawed and unfixable. We know some of you have faith in us that someday we’ll eventually replace all of the boring +5% crit talents with interesting talents and give you 80 talent points that you can spend wherever, and that the game will still remain relatively balanced and fun. We greatly appreciate your faith, but we fear it is misplaced. It’s not a matter of coming up with enough fun mechanics, which is challenging but ultimately doable. The problem is the extreme number of combinations. When you have such a gigantic matrix, the chances of having unbeatable synergies, or combinations of talents that just don’t work together is really high. That’s not lazy design. That is recognizing how math works.

    So given that we don’t think it’s humanly possible to have 40-50 fun, interesting and balanced talents in a tree, the alternative is to continue on with bloated trees that have a ton of inconsequential talents that you have to slog through to get to the fun stuff. A lot of you guys have stuck with us for years, continue to play regularly, and still love World of Warcraft. You are the reason we’re still making this game. We think you deserve better, and we think we can do better.
    And ultimately the 50% nerf to all azerites in PvP just to stab me on the back yet again.

    Have fun reading here:
    https://pt.wowhead.com/news=190220.2...ee-post-mortem
    and
    https://pt.wowhead.com/news=198422/d...e-talent-trees
    All these excuses are just disrespectful. Blizzard indirectly call us all stupid by thinking we are dumb enough to believe these answers.

  16. #76
    Im sorry...i dont usually talk bad things about Blizzard but this topic is really important for me...
    Because its the way i choose to play RPGs.
    Playing snowflake, out of the ordinary, hybrid PvP builds.

    And is no longer possible and i will ALWAYS be salty about it in this topic.

  17. #77
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    16,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    it would just mean more work for them. No need to use new players as an excuse :P
    Yes, lets add more work to the people working on something where people are already complaining about not enough content. I'm sure that will help things.
    Gaming: Dual Intel Pentium III Coppermine @ 1400mhz + Blue Orb | Asus CUV266-D | GeForce 2 Ti + ZF700-Cu | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 | Whistler Build 2267
    Media: Dual Intel Drake Xeon @ 600mhz | Intel Marlinspike MS440GX | Matrox G440 | 1024mb Crucial PC-133 @ 166mhz | Windows 2000 Pro

    IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WANKERSHIM | Did you mean: Fhqwhgads
    "Three days on a tree. Hardly enough time for a prelude. When it came to visiting agony, the Romans were hobbyists." -Mab

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Druitz View Post
    We dont even need 4th spec... Come on. New classes are fine but another spec will make it make it too hard to balance and also, do we rly need 4 dps spec on classes like mages or rogues?
    I'd fucking love a melee Spellblade style spec for Mage or one that combines Melee/Ranged akin to RDM in FF11 or FF14.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    Yes, lets add more work to the people working on something where people are already complaining about not enough content. I'm sure that will help things.
    I’m not saying that. I’m just saying it’s the main reason for not adding more specs and they should be real about it in their answer. You’re taking things out of context.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2019-04-06 at 03:16 PM.

  20. #80
    Legendary! sam86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    WORST country on earth (aka egypt)
    Posts
    6,333
    they literally removed the old talent system because of how every single patch there was always a fix or change in talents since they couldn't balance them ever, why u expect them to be honest now?
    they aren't honest even in their best days in wrath
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •