Keep it real Blizzard!

[Big Thanks]

Because you seem to talk about "true RPG's". Go listen to Mike Mearls or Chris Perkins talk about the "right way to play". There is no "True RPG". Let people find their own fun instead of forcing your version of it. If WoW doesn't deliver it to you, there are other games.

So if i ask you "what is more RPG-like? WotLK talent trees or MoP's talent trees?"

You dont have an asnwer for me?

[Niwes]

It wasnt me who invented the RPG genre. Why are you calling me the gatekeeper of truth?

Everyone knows RPGs are known for customization via talents or stats.

A have my eyes opened since the talent tree changes and i witnessed many things being said...and done.
Like for example the 50% nerf to all azerites in PvP

You see that and easily come to the conclusion that Blizzard just dont want to get any extra work with balancing.
Is as clear as day after the 50% nerf to all azerites in PvP.

They dont give a Fu**
BOOM nerf to all biatxes, no more need to balance this crap altogether.

This is the mentality of Blizzard since the talent changes.
They simply dont want to have any work balancing the game.

they do not wanna have work with anything.

look at all the QoL changes. most of them support the development.

regardless if
- builder/consumer pattern on every class for easier balancing
- ability prune for easier maintaining
- autogenerated gear instead loot lists
- autogenerated scenarios
- recycled content
- cheap cash grab systems like token
...

ALL of that has only one goal: lower investment and higher profit. ALL of them targets cost effective development. „invest the lowest possible effort while making the highest possible profit.“ this is the mantra since years. and its obviously like hell.

or in short: milk the cow as effective as possible.

[Big Thanks]

My answer is, half of the people like WotLK and half like MoP. Who the fuck cares? Play games you like. Don't play games you don't like.

Oh, you are dismissing an actual conversation on the matter and just telling me to play another game....cmon man

The fun part is that nowadays if you want to play "something different" you need to play another class.
Because 1 class/spec is no longer a playground of customization.
If you get tired of one spec....thats it, you are done.
You need to start playing another class.

[Kaver]

Do you understand how many viewpoints there are to any single issue? Just look at any design related thread here. They spiral off to 20 pages of wildly different opinions and arguments about everything. There's no single truth to 100 different questions.

I don't know what kind of world you guys live in - but how many companies actually sit down with fans for "real talk" to answer to all their questions? There's a limit how you want to use your time.

They have their priorities - I'm sure that list contains most of the topics we roll with here, but do they need to communicate all of them? No, they just said what was at top of their minds right now (new player retention, it seems). Maybe that was not the answer you personally were looking for, but the end result is the same.

I'm all for better communication from Blizzard (I'd like them to post more dev watercoolers to give us a bit of light into their development meta), but you guys want some kind of utopian comms department where you can just shout in any made up shit (like 4th specs) and expect 1 hour comprehensive documentary of why it is not possible right now.

No I just want real answers when they do communicate.

[VladimirM]

if no spec is complicated, how are then there so many differences between players on WCL alone?
Players with almost same gear doing 12k on same boss and players doing 24k. No matter if we call specs dumbed down or not, there will always be a way to play it in a good way and in a bad way. And that's why mmo's and pvp games are awesome. With same conditions, different results.

[Big Thanks]

No I just want real answers when they do communicate.

You want to have fun with the past?
Just check the "excuses" about Talent trees:


First in Cataclysm

Some players miss true hybrid builds. (Hybrid in this context means spending near evenly in two trees -- I’m not talking about the more common use of “hybrid” as a tank or healing class.) To be fair, these builds were either not very competitive or were just cherry picking a few powerful talents in order to create something that was likely overpowered, especially in PvP. In other words, the reality of the hybrid build never lived up to the myth. But it’s fair to say that it’s impossible now to have a hybrid build, and we understand some players want them back.

Then the ultimate blow in MOP

Look, we tried the talent tree model for seven years. We think it’s fundamentally flawed and unfixable. We know some of you have faith in us that someday we’ll eventually replace all of the boring +5% crit talents with interesting talents and give you 80 talent points that you can spend wherever, and that the game will still remain relatively balanced and fun. We greatly appreciate your faith, but we fear it is misplaced. It’s not a matter of coming up with enough fun mechanics, which is challenging but ultimately doable. The problem is the extreme number of combinations. When you have such a gigantic matrix, the chances of having unbeatable synergies, or combinations of talents that just don’t work together is really high. That’s not lazy design. That is recognizing how math works.

So given that we don’t think it’s humanly possible to have 40-50 fun, interesting and balanced talents in a tree, the alternative is to continue on with bloated trees that have a ton of inconsequential talents that you have to slog through to get to the fun stuff. A lot of you guys have stuck with us for years, continue to play regularly, and still love World of Warcraft. You are the reason we’re still making this game. We think you deserve better, and we think we can do better.

And ultimately the 50% nerf to all azerites in PvP just to stab me on the back yet again.

Have fun reading here:
https://pt.wowhead.com/news=190220.2...ee-post-mortem
and
https://pt.wowhead.com/news=198422/d...e-talent-trees

[Kaver]

You want to have fun with the past?
Just check the "excuses" about Talent trees:


First in Cataclysm

Some players miss true hybrid builds. (Hybrid in this context means spending near evenly in two trees -- I’m not talking about the more common use of “hybrid” as a tank or healing class.) To be fair, these builds were either not very competitive or were just cherry picking a few powerful talents in order to create something that was likely overpowered, especially in PvP. In other words, the reality of the hybrid build never lived up to the myth. But it’s fair to say that it’s impossible now to have a hybrid build, and we understand some players want them back.

Then the ultimate blow in MOP

Look, we tried the talent tree model for seven years. We think it’s fundamentally flawed and unfixable. We know some of you have faith in us that someday we’ll eventually replace all of the boring +5% crit talents with interesting talents and give you 80 talent points that you can spend wherever, and that the game will still remain relatively balanced and fun. We greatly appreciate your faith, but we fear it is misplaced. It’s not a matter of coming up with enough fun mechanics, which is challenging but ultimately doable. The problem is the extreme number of combinations. When you have such a gigantic matrix, the chances of having unbeatable synergies, or combinations of talents that just don’t work together is really high. That’s not lazy design. That is recognizing how math works.

So given that we don’t think it’s humanly possible to have 40-50 fun, interesting and balanced talents in a tree, the alternative is to continue on with bloated trees that have a ton of inconsequential talents that you have to slog through to get to the fun stuff. A lot of you guys have stuck with us for years, continue to play regularly, and still love World of Warcraft. You are the reason we’re still making this game. We think you deserve better, and we think we can do better.

And ultimately the 50% nerf to all azerites in PvP just to stab me on the back yet again.

Have fun reading here:
https://pt.wowhead.com/news=190220.2...ee-post-mortem
and
https://pt.wowhead.com/news=198422/d...e-talent-trees

All these excuses are just disrespectful. Blizzard indirectly call us all stupid by thinking we are dumb enough to believe these answers.

[Big Thanks]

Im sorry...i dont usually talk bad things about Blizzard but this topic is really important for me...
Because its the way i choose to play RPGs.
Playing snowflake, out of the ordinary, hybrid PvP builds.

And is no longer possible and i will ALWAYS be salty about it in this topic.

[chazus]

it would just mean more work for them. No need to use new players as an excuse :P

Yes, lets add more work to the people working on something where people are already complaining about not enough content. I'm sure that will help things.

[Eleccybubb]

We dont even need 4th spec... Come on. New classes are fine but another spec will make it make it too hard to balance and also, do we rly need 4 dps spec on classes like mages or rogues?

I'd fucking love a melee Spellblade style spec for Mage or one that combines Melee/Ranged akin to RDM in FF11 or FF14.

[Kaver]

Yes, lets add more work to the people working on something where people are already complaining about not enough content. I'm sure that will help things.

I’m not saying that. I’m just saying it’s the main reason for not adding more specs and they should be real about it in their answer. You’re taking things out of context.

[sam86]

they literally removed the old talent system because of how every single patch there was always a fix or change in talents since they couldn't balance them ever, why u expect them to be honest now?
they aren't honest even in their best days in wrath

[Khaza-R]

As an alternative to 4th spec I would much rather see a "dual-class" style system.

It wouldn't be true dual classes but more something like 2 classes sharing a new spec together. For example Mages and Warrior both get access to a 4th spec like Spellbreaker which has a mash of some abilities from both classes and some new ones. They would only need to add 6 new specs, so it wouldn't be as bloated but also add some more unique play-style choices.

[Kaver]

We dont even need 4th spec... Come on. New classes are fine but another spec will make it make it too hard to balance and also, do we rly need 4 dps spec on classes like mages or rogues?

I’m not saying we need 4 specs.

[Druitz]

I’m not saying we need 4 specs.

And blizzard is not doing to because of amout of time they will need to sacrifice nor because of balance just because they will not add something that makes no sense and no player needs it.

[Kaver]

And blizzard is not doing to because of amout of time they will need to sacrifice nor because of balance just because they will not add something that makes no sense and no player needs it.

Can you please rephrase that sentence?