Is arena / BG's still scaled?

[clownpenisfart]

It's quite funny... in RPG games people dislike that they need better gear to progress their power.
Maybe Counter Strike is for you?

entire scaling is stupid idea in such a game as mmorpg -.-

PvP should be about your actions during the fight, not about how much time you spent mindlessly grinding. Leave that stupid crap to PvEers. They love it.

Also the term "RPG" has lost all meaning. 'Role playing game" should literally just mean that the game is based on roles, which it is and still would be with scaling gear.

But for some reason people equate the term "RPG" with the game being based on numbers and dice rolls, completely forgetting that those two aspects were merely an implementation detail of the first RPGs, which had to rely on dice rolls because they were played with pen and paper, not on computers.

[Kralljin]

You said it yourself, bro.

No, because that is not what i meant.

The problem is rather than attempting to make a good game for a certain audience, they attempt to please both audiences and thus fail because their vision is diametrically opposed to each other.

That's like trying to cook for two people, one of them wants some kind of sugary dish, the other one wants something with salt.
You cannot cook the same dish for both people unless you want to create some weird hodgepodge.

It is possible to reach different audiences with one game if their goals are not in opposition to each other, however if they are, then it becomes extremely difficult to make something good that works for both audiences.

Expecting a game to be attuned to your wants and becoming angry with the game or its developers for not getting what you want is simply illogical.

No, the problem is that the game is not fun to both parties, because neither of them have the experience they want.
Personally, i do not believe that a game has to necessarily cater to a broad audience in order to be sucessful, but it has to be a good game in itself.

However, If the developers worry too much about avoiding certain "no" areas for a huge array of audiences, i think they sometimes forget to put fun in the first place.
To go back to the cooking example, if you want to cater a single dish to a broad variety of tastes, that becomes really difficult because anything that might taste good or add some flavor, might cause some people to instantly not like the dish.

And that is my complaint over the scaling mechanic, if you believe that PvP should have its primary engagement out of the competitive, skill based experience, then the power progression aspect of an RPG is inherently difficult to work into.
If you however believe that due being an RPG, the character / power progression should still be a part of it, then the competitive, skill based aspect is by default tarnished.

[cparle87]

No, because that is not what i meant.

The problem is rather than attempting to make a good game for a certain audience, they attempt to please both audiences and thus fail because their vision is diametrically opposed to each other.

That's like trying to cook for two people, one of them wants some kind of sugary dish, the other one wants something with salt.
You cannot cook the same dish for both people unless you want to create some weird hodgepodge.

It is possible to reach different audiences with one game if their goals are not in opposition to each other, however if they are, then it becomes extremely difficult to make something good that works for both audiences.



No, the problem is that the game is not fun to both parties, because neither of them have the experience they want.
Personally, i do not believe that a game has to necessarily cater to a broad audience in order to be sucessful, but it has to be a good game in itself.

However, If the developers worry too much about avoiding certain "no" areas for a huge array of audiences, i think they sometimes forget to put fun in the first place.
To go back to the cooking example, if you want to cater a single dish to a broad variety of tastes, that becomes really difficult because anything that might taste good or add some flavor, might cause some people to instantly not like the dish.

And that is my complaint over the scaling mechanic, if you believe that PvP should have its primary engagement out of the competitive, skill based experience, then the power progression aspect of an RPG is inherently difficult to work into.
If you however believe that due being an RPG, the character / power progression should still be a part of it, then the competitive, skill based aspect is by default tarnished.

Except there aren't 2 parties. There's 100 parties. So they cook a little bit of everything, and you're complaining that your portion isn't big enough.

[Kralljin]

and you're complaining that your portion isn't big enough.

Not really, i was actually fine with the Template system and the "regular" system before that.
I dislike the the current scaling mechanic for multiple reasons, but not for the reasons i mentioned in the posts you quoted.

I think it's a bad system, because first off, it is entirely hidden, not a single hint within the game tells you that it exists.

Second, the number scaling itself is also hidden, if you crit for 30k, your enemy might actually take more or less damage depending on their gear.

Thirdly, Blizzard has not deigned to inform us how much of an impact scaling actually has.
Is a 20 Ilvl difference minuscule?
Are socket actually unaffected by this system?

These are my personal gripes with the system, which have absolutely nothing to do with what the system actually attempts to solve - to find a balance between gear being next to irrelevant (Template System) and still having an impact (Pre Template system).

I liked the previous system more for a variety of reasons, but the crucial difference to the scaling system is that they were clear cut how they worked and what they attempted to achieve.
The scaling is just a hodgepodge that tries to unite two stances that cannot be united.

So they cook a little bit of everything

In a certain way, that sums up the development of BfA pretty well.
A little bit of everything - nothing done well.

[cparle87]

In a certain way, that sums up the development of BfA pretty well. A little bit of everything - nothing done well.

Thanks for exemplifying the kind of players I was talking about so excellently. "Waah! Why isn't the game being catered to only what I like. Screw what everyone else might like! This game is so bad! Waah!"

[Big Thanks]

@Kralljin is right in one thing.

Its inexcusable...INEXCUSABLE that we dont know the exact numbers of pvp item level scaling.

How much % does a difference of 20 ilvls make?

How tha HELL is this acceptable @cparle87 ?

[Kralljin]

"Waah! Why isn't the game being catered to only what I like. Screw what everyone else might like! This game is so bad! Waah!"

You are not getting it.

The scaling system attempts to unite positions that cannot be reconciled, that by itself makes it already difficult to create a decent system.
Same as any cook would struggle to make a decent dish if a ton of ingredients are out of the question.

I like good, fun systems, and i wouldn't mind the scaling system (or what it attempts to achieve) if this system was actually good, but this system has multiple objective flaws.
But from my PoV, rather than making a good system, Blizzard tries to please both crowds, rather than saying "that's how it is, some people wanted something different, but at least it is something good at what it is."

As said above, i don't mind whether "gear progression" is a thing in PvP or not, i also don't mind if my gear is basically next to pointless in PvP, but i want a good system that achieves this.

The scaling system is not a good gameplay system and i have explained it above why - these points do not even fall into a camp of these two opposed camps.

I can enjoy a good system even if it's not that what i wanted, but it needs to good at what it does.
Same as a hardcore gamer can enjoy a heavy story based RPG such as Witcher 3, despite the game being anything but hardcore.

[Big Thanks]

You are not getting it.

The scaling system attempts to unite positions that cannot be reconciled, that by itself makes it already difficult to create a decent system.
Same as any cook would struggle to make a decent dish if a ton of ingredients are out of the question.

I like good, fun systems, and i wouldn't mind the scaling system (or what it attempts to achieve) if this system was actually good, but this system has multiple objective flaws.
But from my PoV, rather than making a good system, Blizzard tries to please both crowds, rather than saying "that's how it is, some people wanted something different, but at least it is something good at what it is."

As said above, i don't mind whether "gear progression" is a thing in PvP or not, i also don't mind if my gear is basically next to pointless in PvP, but i want a good system that achieves this.

The scaling system is not a good gameplay system and i have explained it above why - these points do not even fall into a camp of these two opposed camps.

I can enjoy a good system even if it's not that what i wanted, but it needs to good at what it is.
Same as a hardcore gamer can enjoy a heavy story based RPG such as Witcher 3, despite the game being anything but hardcore.

Humm...i like this version of scaling better than a friggin "template".
At least now we actually have the stats we have (haste mastery crit etc)

My only gripe with the system is the zero information we have.

How can you dislike the system if there is zero information about it?

[Kralljin]

How can you dislike the system if there is zero information about it?

You basically answer your own question:
I dislike the system because there is no information about it and works entirely behind the scenes.

I mean, i explained it above, no point in repeating.

[Rinnegan2]

I wonder if the current wow team leadership might not be fixated on what their analytics tell them, without realizing that it only tells them about their current subscriber base, not about the potential subscribers that are currently not wanting to play the game for various reasons.

smartest observation I've seen in a long time and 100% correct.

[Nargoron]

PvP should be about your actions during the fight, not about how much time you spent mindlessly grinding. Leave that stupid crap to PvEers. They love it.

Also the term "RPG" has lost all meaning. 'Role playing game" should literally just mean that the game is based on roles, which it is and still would be with scaling gear.

But for some reason people equate the term "RPG" with the game being based on numbers and dice rolls, completely forgetting that those two aspects were merely an implementation detail of the first RPGs, which had to rely on dice rolls because they were played with pen and paper, not on computers.

I understand you...
It's nice to say: PVP is fair, its about your skill and not about time you spent grinding...
but again.
Basic stone of games like wow... is your character and it's progress->gear progress. No matter if you like it or not, it is how it is.
When your character is not stronger when you play the game, people wouldn't be interested anymore in playing it and then you will play wow alone.

[Druitz]

I understand you...
It's nice to say: PVP is fair, its about your skill and not about time you spent grinding...
but again.
Basic stone of games like wow... is your character and it's progress->gear progress. No matter if you like it or not, it is how it is.
When your character is not stronger when you play the game, people wouldn't be interested anymore in playing it and then you will play wow alone.

Character progression is fine as long as other player can't be 2 times more powerfull and pve items like void stone are banned in rated pvp. You not only wait 3 minutes for game at 2.3k-2.4kcr but you also need a lot of time to find someone to play with.

[Nargoron]

Character progression is fine as long as other player can't be 2 times more powerfull and pve items like void stone are banned in rated pvp. You not only wait 3 minutes for game at 2.3k-2.4kcr but you also need a lot of time to find someone to play with.

We can agree on that.
damage/hp scaling is out of control in current version of the game.
Slow down dps progress and we don't need this non-transparent pvp damage ,,recalculating".

On the other hand you need to feel progress of your character.

[PavelGolub]

There is scaling and its Big Time , the biggest issue is that no one knows how it works.
Your numbers dont change but somehow your 100k hp lasts for way longer there is some massive scaling issue there.

I tried it with my 2 druids and my 420Ilvl resto druid heals almost the same as my 390ILvl druid in pvp environment.

There is no reason for gear in arena its probably such a minor advantage that it matters only on the 2.5k raiting and up.
There is no real progression in PVP now they might as well make the gear cosmetic only and make everyone "stats" frozen like in Guild Wars PVP

[Logen Ninefingers]

There is no reason for gear in arena its probably such a minor advantage (...)

But ... didn't your 390 ilvl druid have much much lower HP than 420 ilvl ...?