War DD is complete dogsh!t in PVE and needs to be addressed

[Jastall]

Yeah, well, I'm just the kind of person who does not leave a guild unless it disbands basically or the situation becomes really, really unbearable.. :-D

I hear you, it can be hard to let go sometimes.

The fact remains, Jaina's WF kill had two Warriors, that's not my definition of a wheelchair class. In BDA we're not in top shape, but looking at melees we're ahead of the curve in a supremely melee-unfriendly raid when it comes to DPS. The situation isn't amazing by any means, but acting like it's the end of the universe is silly, balance comes and goes. Warriors have had a top-tier DPS spec in every raid since HFC (Where Arms dominated until Nighthold where Fury took over, Arms became great again in ToS, and in Antorus Fury was superb, and then in Uldir Arms was top). It just happens that BDA is a raid where split cleave is king and melees are dogshit at that, on top of Spriests and Warlocks being overtuned. Shit happens.

[cFortyfive]

Considering the WF kill had a Warrior in it, I'm unsure as to why they're dying to get rid if you.

Same reason a lot of the following kills didn't have one in - there isn't actually a reason to bring one in the first place if you happen to have an equally skilled player on one of the better specs. Some arguments for why a warrior may have had some use there were usually wall damage and the execute phase but the wall damage check especially at this point is entirely trivial and the last phase is very short and warriors aren’t dealing great burst damage to begin with so quite a few classes will be able to provide similar numbers there so bringing a spec that has an easier time dealing with the rest of the encounter just makes sense.

simply need to point out the final part of my post which out of contact really does mean nothing

Pretending that the warrior survivability kit is anything special is laughable.
High health isn't even strictly an advantage considering that important abilities like for instance bursting and grievous scale with max hp not even mentioning that it isn't much to begin with. It’s basically just a fluffy roleplay relict.
The cooldown of enraged regeneration is rather long for what is does and it's incredibly clunky and the 10% reduction comes at the cost of another mobility tool and being tied to isn’t even always going to be relevant when it matters. I’d take any bets any decent player would prefer a kit consisting out of a low cd flat damage reduce, some form of heal and an immunity.
Even if we’d assume for a split second here that rogues only had equal damage and not just simply better damage, they’d still have the superior toolkit with their repertoire of ccs, immunities and mobility at the “cost” of nothing. Similar things can be easily argued for demon hunters and to an extend even monks.

[Nerevar]

I raid as fury, we have 1 more fury and 1 more arms warriors in our raid, so about 3 in total. We're always in top 8 at least, with the arms and that one other fury constantly taking top 5. Mythic raiding guild here.

[o17ver]

I raid as fury, we have 1 more fury and 1 more arms warriors in our raid, so about 3 in total. We're always in top 8 at least, with the arms and that one other fury constantly taking top 5. Mythic raiding guild here.

You raid mythic BoD with 3 dps warriors in your raid? R. I. fucking P.

[Nerevar]

You raid mythic BoD with 3 dps warriors in your raid? R. I. fucking P.

We're not rushing anywhere, since our raid group is composed of all the people we know irl, so we're bringing the player, not the class. Seems to be working just fine for us.

[frontfleezy]

Fury is fine. Lack of burst is different, but overall we finish very well and it will only get better. Plus the class is incredibly fun to play. I agree we don't have freebies for mistakes (which is fine imo) but do not think our survivability is poor - 10% reduced pretty much full time, enraged regen, shout, healthstones, potions.

I personally never use Siegebreaker but don't really see anybody not using it, it feels like it gets in the way of the rotation. RA and AM are competitive and I've been using AM for a while now, very very fun getting two Recks in hero. Just have fun, work hard, and you'll do fine.

[Deciticus]

I raid as fury, we have 1 more fury and 1 more arms warriors in our raid, so about 3 in total. We're always in top 8 at least, with the arms and that one other fury constantly taking top 5. Mythic raiding guild here.

Top 8 out of 14 is not exactly stellar. And that's in your raid. Your raid could be garbage.

[farza]

Top 8 out of 14 is not exactly stellar. And that's in your raid. Your raid could be garbage.

obviously garbage with 3 dps warriors esp. arms, lol
they might have 3 frost dk also

//no offence

[Nerevar]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Right. So your idea is that the warrior should be top 1 all the time because?... You think you deserve it? The title of the thread is that war dd is complete dogshit in pve, which is not true. I'd say people who complain and cry, and can't do shit in the game are the ones that are obviously garbage.

//no offence

[RobertMugabe]

Sorry, but this whole thread sounds like whining about warriors not being the best in PVE.

That and a combination of not knowing that other classes/specs have downsides too.

[Seramore]

I'd argue the state of Warriors right now is more relevant to the state of melee itself rather than the state of our class. Warrior damage dealing is mostly fine, Arms needs the most attention and Fury's biggest issues are honestly the lack of burst (which is made up for by having very good sustain), a few dead talents, and Reck feeling like shit to use (which is more relevant to the GCD changes than the spec itself).

Melee in general is in a questionable spot right now in raids that could probably be addressed. Uldir we were fucked and mechanically punished for being heavy melee, and BoD isn't much better with the way it favors ranged just because of how well multi-dotters work this tier. Crucible doesn't need to be mentioned - I think most of us can agree that you're fucked unless you're a ranged DPS.

[Marrilaife]

I'd argue the state of Warriors right now is more relevant to the state of melee itself rather than the state of our class.

True, basically no reason to bring any other melee to raids except rogues and dhs, and even that in low amounts and depending on boss. What's the point of having 9 melee classes vs 6 ranged when all raids are designed around stacking boomkins, locks, spriests and you name it (always ranged).

Except Zul and Fallen Avatar with rogues, show me 1 fight where you'd stack a particular melee class (non rogue). Never. It's always some ranged. Just the name of the class changes. Mages had their moment of glory even if they're on the low side now. So did hunters. When did you ever care to bring 4-5 dps warriors, dks, rets, enhance, windwalkers? Basically never. If it happened, it would be all over the news.

[cFortyfive]

I'd argue the state of Warriors right now is more relevant to the state of melee itself rather than the state of our class. Warrior damage dealing is mostly fine, Arms needs the most attention and Fury's biggest issues are honestly the lack of burst (which is made up for by having very good sustain), a few dead talents, and Reck feeling like shit to use (which is more relevant to the GCD changes than the spec itself).

I still think one is not really more relevant than the other. Not being at the top of the list after the obligatory dh is still a problem with the class and the terrible design choices made and I feel like Blizzard isn't going address either problem adequately. It's kinda amusing to me that even the times that are generally considered the worst balanced still had spots for the shitty specs even if they were just more buffbots while today it's easily the best time ever to build these stupid ranged setups thanks to class imbalances, encounter design and personal loot.

Jaina mythic really showcases quite well the glaring weaknesses of fury.

[Protean]

they need to give warriors dps this set of talents again.

and make intimidating shout reduce trash dmg by 10% or 20% for x sec, instead of shockwave.

this will make warrior wanted in all contents.

They should make the level 30 row baseline to make room for this.

No way I'll ever pick anything other than double time.

[Jazzhands]

Fury is almost directly middle of the pack, but Arms could definitely use some love. Middle of the pack to me is a "Could be a lot worse" kind of place, would it be nice to be better? For sure, but it could be a lot worse. We could be DKs.

Looking at individual fights and not over all gives a better picture. Some fights we do better than others, this is more or less how things should be since classes should excel in different areas. The real balance problem lies in classes that are just good on everything.

Hopefully Blizzard will follow their usual pattern and tank the top classes by overnerfing, Outlaw is simply too good looking at logs, and warlock/Spriest are up there as well, I don't know what makes Outlaw so strong, guessing Blade Flurry still, but I'm amazed DoTs don't do X% less damage per target yet, it's an easy way to reign in DoT cleave which has traditionally been super strong.

[dotsown]

Blizzard has always been terrible at balancing the game, so im not surprised they've been this bad for this long and not done anything about it. It's the same case for some tanks as well and the balance in mythic plus is a joke.

[Raiz]

They may be bad, but part of me thinks they're doing it on purpose.

[mstg]

Just glad I quit the game before this expansion:

Level 70 - Fury not bad
Level 80 - Fury good times
Level 90 - Fury good times
Level 100 - Fury was alright
Level 110 - Fury good times