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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    Can be cleared in several hours easy yes, if you stack viable classes. If you dont your dps is going to be 3x lower, healing 2x lower, tank taking 30% more damage and you wont be able to kill anything.

    Dont judge dps in vanilla by retail standards. We call it non-viable because the difference is going to be massive. Currently if the spec is 10% it's already called non-viable. In vanilla the difference you could be up to 5 times, even with bis gear and played optimally.
    Your healing won't be x2 lower even if you bring 8 Druids speced into Balance(in this case it actually might be xD). For DPS to be x3 lower you raid should literally have 0 warriors/mages/rogues/ which is ofc wont be the case, don't exaggirate please.

    Most vanilla bosses have negative amount of mechanics present on them and the only difficulty is to beat "dpscheck" which is literally a breeze to do if your guild wasn't started playing yesterday and went straight into Naxx in quest gear.
    Last edited by Pu3Ho; 2019-04-07 at 12:24 PM.

  2. #22
    1200dps is not normal dps, if you're doing 1200 dps you're already clearing Tier5 in TBC. Talking about numbers like 1200 dps is speedkill numbers with many buffs, it's a bit silly, private servers have also inflated this because the dps numbers on them are higher than Vanilla, generally. That's also combined with the fact that these servers have cash shops allowing everyone to run around in full BIS, something that never existed in the real game.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    1200dps is not normal dps, if you're doing 1200 dps you're already clearing Tier5 in TBC. Talking about numbers like 1200 dps is speedkill numbers with many buffs, it's a bit silly, private servers have also inflated this because the dps numbers on them are higher than Vanilla, generally. That's also combined with the fact that these servers have cash shops allowing everyone to run around in full BIS, something that never existed in the real game.
    Speedkills are the whole point of raiding in vanilla, mostly because of how silly world buffs are, yes. And no, 1200 dps is pretty normal in Naxx gear. There are gimmick fights in vanilla where people can achieve up to 2.5k dps.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    Speedkills are the whole point of raiding in vanilla, mostly because of how silly world buffs are, yes. And no, 1200 dps is pretty normal in Naxx gear. There are gimmick fights in vanilla where people can achieve up to 2.5k dps.
    1200 dps is not normal at all. The next thing you will be telling us is the dps we do in time walker BT is comparable to what we did in BC. This is plainly false as with your assertion that 1200 dps is normal in naxx gear at level 60.

    I did a fight today on the third boss in normal BoD. I did 45k dps. Does that mean that your normal pug should be able to do 45k dps? No? Then why are you bringing up gimmick fights for?

  5. #25
    1200 was perfectly obtainable in retail vanilla full naxx gear.
    There are videos of people doing it.
    All it took was a few world buffs.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    1200 dps is not normal at all. The next thing you will be telling us is the dps we do in time walker BT is comparable to what we did in BC. This is plainly false as with your assertion that 1200 dps is normal in naxx gear at level 60.

    I did a fight today on the third boss in normal BoD. I did 45k dps. Does that mean that your normal pug should be able to do 45k dps? No? Then why are you bringing up gimmick fights for?
    1200 dps is not a high number at all with Naxx gear, this is not a gimmick number, this is a number that anyone playing mage/warlock/rogue/warrior in a decent guild will be able to achieve.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Get out with your private server stats
    Those are gonna be classic stats as well. Don't be surprised when some warriors will do 2k+ dps with bis gear and every buffs and consummes in naxx.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by collax View Post
    Those are gonna be classic stats as well. Don't be surprised when some warriors will do 2k+ dps with bis gear and every buffs and consummes in naxx.
    Classic Patchwerk required 12,000 raid dps to kill at the berserk timer (4.32M health in 360 seconds).

    If everybody were able to do 1000-1200 dps over the fight then the boss would have died in about two minutes. Do you have any videos from Classic showing Patchwerk dying that fast?

    I only found videos where the boss dies at or shortly after the berserk timer. Assuming you have 25 dps in the raid, that is an average of 480 dps per dps-specced player (so ignoring tanks and healers).
    Last edited by Butler to Baby Sloths; 2019-04-07 at 02:16 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    Speedkills are the whole point of raiding in vanilla, mostly because of how silly world buffs are, yes. And no, 1200 dps is pretty normal in Naxx gear. There are gimmick fights in vanilla where people can achieve up to 2.5k dps.
    Yes Loatheb and Thaddius are gimmick fights with artificial damage boosts as part of the fight, that's not really relevant in the general sense. And Vanilla isn't about speedkilling, Vanilla private servers are because the majority of content is based around the early patches of WoW where class performance was massively lower than in 1.12, and when content was tuned tougher, you're burning through undertuned content with overpowered classes.

    Private servers also have flaws that increase damage output, and many with cash shops where the average gearing process is far quicker, the speedkilling nature of private servers is the result of many factors that will be (or should be) largely mitigated/reduced/eliminated on Classic WoW, including the fact that the playerbase won't primarily consist of players who have been repeating the Vanilla progression process for years.

    And I do speak from experience, thousands of people use my TBC gearing spreadsheet every month, something I worked on while raiding on a certain popular TBC private realm back in 2017. I have (or should I say had, it seems like a lifetime ago) quite a bit of insight as to the flaws in certain private servers (vanilla-tbc-wotlk) that contributes to at least somewhat significant differences in class performance compared to retail. Private servers offer something special, but they are not the same thing as the original game.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    1200 was perfectly obtainable in retail vanilla full naxx gear.
    There are videos of people doing it.
    All it took was a few world buffs.
    And a 1-2 minute fight
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by stevenho View Post
    1200 was perfectly obtainable in retail vanilla full naxx gear.
    There are videos of people doing it.
    All it took was a few world buffs.
    The question was about "normal dps". Doing 600 dps is on the high end in naxx progession.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Classic Patchwerk required 12,000 raid dps to kill at the berserk timer (4.32M health in 360 seconds).

    If everybody were able to do 1000-1200 dps over the fight then the boss would have died in about two minutes. Do you have any videos from Classic showing Patchwerk dying that fast?

    I only found videos where the boss dies at or shortly after the berserk timer. Assuming you have 25 dps in the raid, that is an average of 480 dps per dps-specced player (so ignoring tanks and healers).
    Let's assume best case scenario - optimized raid setup, best possible gear. Average Naxx raid is going to have 12-14 healers, 3-4 tanks. Then 5-7 dpsers that wont be able to output top dps - Warlocks that didnt get Corruption slot, Hunters and a Shadow Priest (if you choose to run it over Weaving Priest). 30k raid dps is reachable but most guilds will be around 25k, so around 3 min kill. Now on vanilla, first of all, not a single guild really had an option to have an optimal raid setup. Most people did was stacking mages, but even then debuff game was very weak (raidwide Arcanite Dragonling/Battle Chicken usage - noone did that). Noone had a clue of how strong warriors were (mostly because they werent strong in the beginning on vanilla). And the most important of all - not a single guild in the world had even a month to farm naxx and actually get full naxx geared before TBC was announced and raiding was over for most guilds.
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  13. #33
    I just can't wait for the shitshow where all the private server babies come out of the woodwork to find out that Authentic Vanilla(Classic) is not the same as Private Server Vanilla lol.
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  14. #34
    All that video really shows is just how insane DPS Warriors actually scaled and why the top speed running guilds on PS'ers have at least 5 in each raid.

  15. #35
    Even if 1k was possible, you couldn't do it because of threat reasons.

  16. #36
    Yeah buddy you're way overestimating the damage there. Looking at my Patchwerk first kill logs our highest DPS was about 750, we barely got him before enrage at 5:59

    Mage - 271387
    Mage - 255919
    Rogue - 249105
    Rogue - 216275 (yay me!)
    Rogue - 213465
    Mage - 212045
    Warrior - 211797
    Rogue - 207700
    Warrior - 205538
    Mage - 203648
    Rogue - 200362
    Warrior - 188606
    Rogue - 188187
    Mage - 181887
    Warrior - 176013

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by LedZeppelin View Post
    Not this guy again, god please no... this guy is just the worst source anyone can have. Trashy videos and just constant mumbling about things he doesn't know of.
    Whoever is taking this guy seriously... just lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Classic Patchwerk required 12,000 raid dps to kill at the berserk timer (4.32M health in 360 seconds).

    If everybody were able to do 1000-1200 dps over the fight then the boss would have died in about two minutes. Do you have any videos from Classic showing Patchwerk dying that fast?

    I only found videos where the boss dies at or shortly after the berserk timer. Assuming you have 25 dps in the raid, that is an average of 480 dps per dps-specced player (so ignoring tanks and healers).
    videos say nothing, noone really cared about patchwerk it was just a check boss for guilds that couldn't tank/heal/dps that fight. Noone would fraps patchwerk when naxx was on full clear, thats why you can't see any videos. Patchwerk was getting killed way faster than berserker when naxx was on clear.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by tratra View Post
    Not this guy again, god please no... this guy is just the worst source anyone can have. Trashy videos and just constant mumbling about things he doesn't know of.
    Whoever is taking this guy seriously... just lol.

    - - - Updated - - -



    videos say nothing, noone really cared about patchwerk it was just a check boss for guilds that couldn't tank/heal/dps that fight. Noone would fraps patchwerk when naxx was on full clear, thats why you can't see any videos. Patchwerk was getting killed way faster than berserker when naxx was on clear.
    Tips is basing all his classic videos on some weird private server data, so be very careful what you make of it.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    There's not a single buff in vanilla that would justify bringing a non-viable dps, unless you just have to fill that slot.
    lol wrong

    a shadowpriest for the debuff because you have multiple warlocks would absolutely be worth the slot

    a feral druid because you need an off tank but most of the time they are doing dps is worth the slot

    an enhancement shamans b/c they have boosted totems and are wielding nightfall axe is worth the slot

    etc etc etc
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuse View Post
    lol wrong

    a shadowpriest for the debuff because you have multiple warlocks would absolutely be worth the slot

    a feral druid because you need an off tank but most of the time they are doing dps is worth the slot

    an enhancement shamans b/c they have boosted totems and are wielding nightfall axe is worth the slot

    etc etc etc
    - you dont need a shadowpriest to have weaving.

    - any fury/prot warrior will do more dps than a feral, and is obviously superior for tanking

    - you dont need to be a dps shaman to have boosted totems, and nightfall on an enhance is shit, having it on an offtank/hunter blows it out of the water

    - etc, etc
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