What is normal DPS in full Naxx gear

[garicasha]

Edit after post necroed on Oct 9 19: all of this could be totally wrong.

I want to communicate to new players how big the discrepancy in classes was but I keep getting info that’s absurdly detailed or fanatics for off-specs that claim they can do great DPS if they’re dual-wielding Atiesh on the first full moon of the galactic ecliptic.

Edited: original numbers were too high...still don't know if they're right, but they're closer: There's also an inherent problem in the question (fewer than 1% of players raided Naxx so it wasn't 'normal' to even be in there, and when they were, they tended to have tons of buffs). Also I forgot just how powerful these buffs were, which has made "normal" hard to figure out:
Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer (Ony or Nef): 10% Spell Crit, 5% melee and ranged crit, 140 attack power (Looks like rogues had about ~350 attack power in pre-raid gear +whatever they had innately)
Spirit of Zandalar: 10% move speed, 15% all stats
Songflower Serenade: 15% stats

Assume very good but not perfect BiS Naxx gear, no legendaries, Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer but not Zandalar or Songflower. No flask. Assume no Blessing of Salvation or Battle Rez, so have to stay below tank threat.

2nd edit: The numbers below I pulled from an extra-curricular player ranking site so they are certainly achievable, but are still probably the equivalent of modern top parses (possibly with the raid catering to/cheesing for one individual to parse really well). In retrospect I should have specified BiS AQ40 and below gear. Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer is even more OP than I remember it being, so that also inflates numbers as well. So the numbers for a guild entering Naxx without world buffs or any Naxx gear are probably 200-300 DPS less than the numbers below, putting the averages in the 400-600 range.

850 range:
Fury Warrior
Rogue
Fire Mage

750 range:
Warlock

700:
Hunter

Shadow, Elemental, Feral, Ret, Boomkin: 400-600

All the above numbers could go significantly higher if you start factoring in flasks, legendaries, stacking all the world buffs, and all the other buffs, plus if players could chain Blessing of Salvation or Battle Rez and/or stacking the entire raid so the entire fight lasted a very short time.


OP:
1200 range:
Fury War
Rogue
Fire Mage

1100 range:
Warlock

900-1000:
Hunter

Shadow, Elemental, Feral, Ret, Boomkin: 500-600

[Volitar]

Okay but most people probably won't do Naxx. Most people are just going to be casual noobs and do MC and whatever 5mans and pvp where playing a hybrid spec is probably fine.

You seem really up your own butt about your vanilla knowledge (the link your sig) I only skimmed it and I found a lot of things that were wrong.

[garicasha]

Yah, you're not the first to say it. I think part of the reason is because I had a very different experience in vanilla than most as I lone-wolfed just about everything until I HAD to join a guild to do MC. Although for all the people that have said that post is inaccurate, I've yet to find a more complete and accurate post either.

And yah MC and BWL aren't really tuned for DPS, but I think players that joined in Wrath, Cata, etc. won't be expecting that the spec they enjoy playing does 40% of the damage of the optimal specs.

[Pua]

Yep, even these numbers are inflated; nobody did those numbers as consistent DPS because, funnily enough, they're closer to The Burning Crusade numbers.

[Hotmail]

fanatics for off-specs that claim they can do great DPS if they’re dual-wielding Atiesh on the first full moon of the galactic ecliptic.

Nah it's because of this kind of propaganda that you see all over. Never mind the fact that Warriors could consistently crit harder during Thaddeus execute phase.

On my Warlock I could easily pull 1300+ but I was threat capped by a dumpster-tier tank.

[munkeyinorbit]

Definitely. I am not saying I was ever good at the game but I managed to clear Sunwell in BC.

I remember some milestones dps wise. I first started raiding in BC and one of our officers had this massive shit cause we were wiping in Gruul. This was pre 2.1 He said "If you're not doing fucking 600 dps then get the fuck out of my raid. 600 dps is Naxx numbers and that was 10 levels ago." Everyone in the raid would have had at least half epics from Kara by that point. Even though I have not read or looked at any videos from the time, I would think that 600 dps was probably the minimum that most raiders could do in Naxx. Considering most didn't hit 1k dps until most of the way though T5 content, I think claims of 1100 dps are an exaggeration.

Yeah, maybe the guilds actually looking at World firsts could reach that height, but for your average raider back then, which there were not that many, 1k dps in naxx is not a normal thing. I would say 600 dps is.

[garicasha]

Hmm you guys are right because I remember wiping on Nightbane in a pug and looking at DPS meters for the very first time.

But...I was getting my numbers from a parsing site for extra-curicular players and I’m wondering if/how/why players were putting up those numbers

[collax]

"Feral : 500-600"

That's the number i can do with bwl gear with raid buff and world buff but without any consumes. If i bothered to get some elixirs and pummeller it would be alot higher. (but i'm mostly tanking anyway).

Fury war can go higher i think but it will mostly depends if the tank can hold the threat. The top horde guild on my server have some warrior that manage to reach 1k8 dps with full buff and consumes for their speed kill and that's only with bwl gear. (to get their world first and speed record they stack 25 fury war and shaman with windfury to destroy every boss in less than 1 minutes. To get their gear they all have 2 alts and split their main characters with the alts into 3 raid when it's on farm).

[FuxieDK]

I want to communicate to new players how big the discrepancy in classes was but I keep getting info that’s absurdly detailed or fanatics for off-specs that claim they can do great DPS if they’re dual-wielding Atiesh on the first full moon of the galactic ecliptic.

As best I can tell
1200 range:
Fury War
Rogue
Fire Mage

1100 range:
Warlock

900-1000:
Hunter

Shadow, Elemental, Feral, Ret, Boomkin: 500-600

So awesome very good but not BiS Naxx gear and Ony buff but no flask.

1200 in Vanilla? No one did 1200 DPS in Vanilla.

People did 1200-1300 in SSC and TK during TBC at level 70
WotLK HCs was tuned for 1400dps at level 80.

If you could break 1000 sustained DPS in Vanilla, you were top of the pop..

[Kuja]

Are they going to do any balancing? Biggest thing I hated about vanilla is how big performance differences specs have. But I guess it wouldn't be vanilla then, if most specs would be viable in competitive raiding.

[Atherions]

1000+ DPS in vanilla is only something people achieve on short fights with world buffs and adds. No one is doing 1k DPS on a long single target fight like Sapphiron.

[clavius]

i think shedo is in naxx bis in these clips: www youtube com/watch?v=hUc70zMFAKI

[RobertMugabe]

"Feral : 500-600"

That's the number i can do with bwl gear with raid buff and world buff but without any consumes. If i bothered to get some elixirs and pummeller it would be alot higher. (but i'm mostly tanking anyway).

Fury war can go higher i think but it will mostly depends if the tank can hold the threat. The top horde guild on my server have some warrior that manage to reach 1k8 dps with full buff and consumes for their speed kill and that's only with bwl gear. (to get their world first and speed record they stack 25 fury war and shaman with windfury to destroy every boss in less than 1 minutes. To get their gear they all have 2 alts and split their main characters with the alts into 3 raid when it's on farm).

Get out with your private server stats

[Apocas]

Tbh depending on boss you can reach high numbers
youtube.com/watch?v=DGhr2uv9-PQ
Decimation Talnivarr Patchwerk Naxx 40 Man

True its patchwerk but this is vanilla back then ( Not any private server )
Changing the URL as i have to few posts

[VanishingAct]

Definitely. I am not saying I was ever good at the game but I managed to clear Sunwell in BC.

I remember some milestones dps wise. I first started raiding in BC and one of our officers had this massive shit cause we were wiping in Gruul. This was pre 2.1 He said "If you're not doing fucking 600 dps then get the fuck out of my raid. 600 dps is Naxx numbers and that was 10 levels ago." Everyone in the raid would have had at least half epics from Kara by that point. Even though I have not read or looked at any videos from the time, I would think that 600 dps was probably the minimum that most raiders could do in Naxx. Considering most didn't hit 1k dps until most of the way though T5 content, I think claims of 1100 dps are an exaggeration.

Yeah, maybe the guilds actually looking at World firsts could reach that height, but for your average raider back then, which there were not that many, 1k dps in naxx is not a normal thing. I would say 600 dps is.

Out of curiosity was that before or after the nerf to m'uru? We were stuck on m'uru for months because of fucking retards but they were around since MC days so couldn't gkick cos they were the fuckin officers

[Contego]

A lot of those "sub par specs" help the other dps do more damage though as sort of a hybrid between dps and support. Warlocks gave CoE, shadow priests gave mana regen, shamans gave a variety of totems, ferals gave melee crit chance iirc, and so on.
Vanilla wasn't only about every class being individually good on their own, but also about boosting the people around you. Atiesh is a good example of that. There was a place for everyone, in some way, where maximum potential dps of a single player or class was less important.

[Thunderball]

shadow priests gave mana regen

No, they didnt.

There's not a single buff in vanilla that would justify bringing a non-viable dps, unless you just have to fill that slot.

[LedZeppelin]

[Pu3Ho]

No, they didnt.

There's not a single buff in vanilla that would justify bringing a non-viable dps, unless you just have to fill that slot.

Non-viable? More like Non-optimal that is. Everything in Vanilla can be cleared with literally almost any setup(no matter how not meta it is) in several hours. You stack OP things only to kill things faster/easier and that's it.

[Thunderball]

Non-viable? More like Non-optimal that is. Everything in Vanilla can be cleared with literally almost any setup(no matter how not meta it is) in several hours. You stack OP things only to kill things faster/easier and that's it.

Can be cleared in several hours easy yes, if you stack viable classes. If you dont your dps is going to be 3x lower, healing 2x lower, tank taking 30% more damage and you wont be able to kill anything.

Dont judge dps in vanilla by retail standards. We call it non-viable because the difference is going to be massive. Currently if the spec is 10% it's already called non-viable. In vanilla the difference you could be up to 5 times, even with bis gear and played optimally.