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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    That is partly because one game is released and in full force and the other is an upcoming re-release. The traffic will increase significantly on launch. Also, there is not a lot to talk about, at least for old timers, most of the stuff is known and since Blizz plans to launch as close to classic as possible I have no reason to go there. And I will play Classic a lot.
    It's because Classic is extremely niche in the actual grand scheme of people who play video games, and has very little appeal to most people.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    The same reason they are not releasing sub numbers anymore. It's indirectly admitting what they are doing is bad. Less players = worse game.
    The reason they don't release sub numbers is because of hyperactive takes like this that generate negative pub for really no reason. The moment you see 100k subscriber drop = WOW IS OVAH and no one says shit when the sub number climbs again. The feedback loop only applies negatively.

  3. #403
    Fluffy Kitten MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    The same reason they are not releasing sub numbers anymore. It's indirectly admitting what they are doing is bad. Less players = worse game.
    Are you willing to admit that any other subscription-based game that doesn't release their numbers is also bad? WoW was the only one that did this for years. No one else does it. Are they all admitting that "what they are doing is bad?"

    Or is it easier to look at what happened around that time and see that ATVI completely changed their metrics for reporting quarterly results?

    Choose wisely. One of the above is quite true.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post

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    I mean the majority did quit so /shrug
    And went to FF14. ;x

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Are you willing to admit that any other subscription-based game that doesn't release their numbers is also bad? WoW was the only one that did this for years. No one else does it. Are they all admitting that "what they are doing is bad?"

    Or is it easier to look at what happened around that time and see that ATVI completely changed their metrics for reporting quarterly results?

    Choose wisely. One of the above is quite true.
    None lol.

    ActiBlizz were just tired of being embarrassed by publicly revealing they were constantly dropping. So just switched to "MAU" as a term.

    If my game lost 5 million players in around a year or so out of 10 million I'd be pretty damn embarrassed personally and be trying to work out what went wrong.
    Last edited by Eleccybubb; 2019-04-09 at 08:45 PM.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Are you willing to admit that any other subscription-based game that doesn't release their numbers is also bad? WoW was the only one that did this for years. No one else does it. Are they all admitting that "what they are doing is bad?"

    Or is it easier to look at what happened around that time and see that ATVI completely changed their metrics for reporting quarterly results?

    Choose wisely. One of the above is quite true.
    My opinion? When your game is on the rise and the absolute behemoth that it was during Vanilla/BC/Wotlk, yeah you release numbers because it is good for business. People can talk about the game and say: come join me, this game is awesome and getting bigger and better every patch. They kept the numbers because they would rise back quite high each expansion, only a million or two below peak. But after that it was obvious it is negative PR both for players (new/returning) as well as investors. Why invest in a game slowly dying away. Other games didn't do it because they never experience such growth and probably learned from the lesson Blizzard did wrong. Trumpeting out how well you do is eventually gonna backfire simply because infinite growth doesn't really exist in gaming (limited amount of available players).

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    And went to FF14. ;x
    The funny thing is that this isn't even false. It's partly true. Certain games saw a huge rise in players with this expansion. There is absolute correlation.
    Last edited by Eleccybubb; 2019-04-09 at 08:47 PM.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    It's an example of a company admitting that it produced a turd. Still waiting for Blizzard to do the same.
    Like I said, if you think the situations are in any way comparable, you're very stupid. And I'm not even saying BfA is great or good, but FF14 was unplayable originally.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Because that majority gross is coming from subs alone yeah?

    Despite the fact they shoved MTX harder than any other expansion so far, did a crappy "see you later" bundle to try and cash grab (let's face it they will bring it back), discount on race changes right before Allied Races came out and a 6 month promo mount?

    Yeah considering how hard they've been going on MTX for WoW it's safe to speculate and say the majority of profit was NOT from subscriptions.

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    I mean the majority did quit so /shrug
    People come and go every expansion, overall subs have been on a decline since WotLK. Stating the "Majority" have quit is wrong and very opinionated, unless ofc your talking about a span of 10 years, in which case i agree.

    3rd party websites still estimate WoW over 5million active subs.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Like I said, if you think the situations are in any way comparable, you're very stupid. And I'm not even saying BfA is great or good, but FF14 was unplayable originally.
    I have to agree with this.

    What they did to turn around the game was amazing. But BFA ain't got nothing on 1.0. I know that from experience.

  11. #411
    And yet again, a thread full of people who think the developers are just "bad at design" and don't want to make more changes/content faster. The problem is production bandwidth, not designer imagination. They don't have enough production staff to do the actual implementation and testing - probably because those are busy working on classic, the next expansion and/or other projects.

    No amount of "admitting failure" will add more production bandwidth. But what being open about problems will do, is make it absolutely clear that they are downprioritizing BfA in favor of other things. Of course the studio leadership won't let that happen. It would be a PR nightmare. So we get a balancing act between not seeming too arrogant and not openly admitting a resource problem.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Rawrajishxc View Post
    You're absolutely right about that and I definitely agree that XIV is the best mmo out right now. Yoshida actually admits to his mistakes and does a great job at giving the players what they want even when it doesn't always work out.
    How does Yoshida know what players want?

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Are you willing to admit that any other subscription-based game that doesn't release their numbers is also bad? WoW was the only one that did this for years. No one else does it. Are they all admitting that "what they are doing is bad?"

    Or is it easier to look at what happened around that time and see that ATVI completely changed their metrics for reporting quarterly results?

    Choose wisely. One of the above is quite true.
    Don't you know? Blizzard isn't releasing the subs numbers because they're bad, ESO/FF14 don't release theirs because they're so high the evil Actiblizz would he ashamed /s

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Because that majority gross is coming from subs alone yeah?

    Despite the fact they shoved MTX harder than any other expansion so far, did a crappy "see you later" bundle to try and cash grab (let's face it they will bring it back), discount on race changes right before Allied Races came out and a 6 month promo mount?

    Yeah considering how hard they've been going on MTX for WoW it's safe to speculate and say the majority of profit was NOT from subscriptions.

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    I mean the majority did quit so /shrug
    And then went to MMO-C to complain, amirite?

    The people that are here -- complaining -- are active players. Or else they'd be, you know, playing other games. No one in their right mind expects WoW to survive forever. And if there is anyone who can see a trend it's the people making the game who have to be accountable to shareholders to eventually say, hey we're seeing decreasing numbers and here's what we're going to do to fix it. OR, they'll say, we no longer want to continue to pursue this project because we aren't getting the ROI we want, so we're going to wind it down, make it F2P or whatever. It's a natural evolution. There is a question here as to how many big changes have to be made to get players excited about this game again -- and whether that last point is even possible. If it's not possible at all or not possible without completely revamping the game, including classes as we know them, then it's not worth Blizzard's investment to try to revamp it. Instead, they'll make a new game, call it something else, and put those new systems into it. Most software works this way. When the market changes, and you see new features necessary to keep things going, you sunset existing products and put out new ones that do the same stuff and then some.

    WoW, in a vacuum, should have died five years ago. But the game's floor as far as entertainment value and profitability is still larger than 75% of the video game market and 95% of the MMO market, so it survives.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    Don't you know? Blizzard isn't releasing the subs numbers because they're bad, ESO/FF14 don't release theirs because they're so high the evil Actiblizz would he ashamed /s
    I mean they literally stopped doing it as the numbers almost cut in half in the space of a year.

    Doesn't take much to figure out they were embarrassed by that huge drop.

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolithi View Post
    How does Yoshida know what players want?
    Probably a functioning community team that connects the players with the devs and designers.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    None lol.

    ActiBlizz were just tired of being embarrassed by publicly revealing they were constantly dropping. So just switched to "MAU" as a term.

    If my game lost 5 million players in around a year or so out of 10 million I'd be pretty damn embarrassed personally and be trying to work out what went wrong.
    So what went wrong? Who can know that answer?
    Or you really think they wouldnt fix what went wrong even if they knew it? Wouldnt seem very logical from their part, right?

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Monolithi View Post
    So what went wrong? Who can know that answer?
    Or you really think they wouldnt fix what went wrong even if they knew it? Wouldnt seem very logical from their part, right?
    That's exactly the problem, they don't know what is going wrong and why WoW is declining in numbers. I am not saying I know the answer. I am just sure they don't know either, or they would fix it. In my opinion they SHOULD know what is wrong.

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Are you willing to admit that any other subscription-based game that doesn't release their numbers is also bad? WoW was the only one that did this for years. No one else does it. Are they all admitting that "what they are doing is bad?"

    Or is it easier to look at what happened around that time and see that ATVI completely changed their metrics for reporting quarterly results?

    Choose wisely. One of the above is quite true.
    WoW also did it without cheating the numbers. Most games will give funny numbers like "Accounts created" or "Copies sold" that don't equate to actual paying players to claim "see, we're releasing player numbers."
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  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    I mean they literally stopped doing it as the numbers almost cut in half in the space of a year.

    Doesn't take much to figure out they were embarrassed by that huge drop.
    Fair point. Even if not releasing the subs numbers doesn't necessarily mean the game is going downhill (otherwise every subscription-based MMO is going downhill).

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