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  1. #461
    If BfA were truly failing, there would be more visible warning signs than there currently are. It's not a great expansion, but let's not put it in the same league as WoD.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by InTheEnd View Post
    If BfA were truly failing, there would be more visible warning signs than there currently are. It's not a great expansion, but let's not put it in the same league as WoD.
    I believe activity, as tracked on WCR, has declined faster (in percentage terms) than in WoD, although I don't have the old graphs from WoD.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    Q: Why was the anti-vaxxer's 4 year old child crying? A: Midlife crisis.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I believe activity, as tracked on WCR, has declined faster (in percentage terms) than in WoD, although I don't have the old graphs from WoD.
    WCR is based on people using tracking addons.

    it was always meaningless data because most people do not use addons .

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by InTheEnd View Post
    If BfA were truly failing, there would be more visible warning signs than there currently are. It's not a great expansion, but let's not put it in the same league as WoD.
    I mean.

    MTX being thrown down harder than ever. We've had more thrown on faster than ever. In the space of 8 months we've had 2 mounts (3 if you count the promo), a pet, toys and that stupid "see you later" bundle which is going to come back later anyway.

    I'd say they are trying to recuperate for something personally.

  5. #465
    Legendary! sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheEnd View Post
    If BfA were truly failing, there would be more visible warning signs than there currently are. It's not a great expansion, but let's not put it in the same league as WoD.
    yeah for all BFA hate, ppl really did forget WoD sh8ttiness
    WoD entire patches has less content than patch 3.3 of wrath, we are comparing a single patch with everything released after exp was out
    WoD had great questing, new boss mechanics (some fun, some sh8t), but beside that, we have the infamous selfie patch that blizz itself wasn't sure to call it patch or not
    BFA still miles better than WoD, BFA biggest problem is it was after Legion
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    WCR is based on people using tracking addons.

    it was always meaningless data because most people do not use addons .
    WCR tracks people who don't have the addon, if they are visible to people who do. And it does not have to track everyone to deliver useful data.

    It has correlated well in the past with more objective changes (like sub announcements), when those were available.

    So I think you're just using that as an excuse to dismiss valid evidence you don't like.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    Q: Why was the anti-vaxxer's 4 year old child crying? A: Midlife crisis.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I believe activity, as tracked on WCR, has declined faster (in percentage terms) than in WoD, although I don't have the old graphs from WoD.
    A little faster, yes, but overall very similar, the main difference is that the base is now lower (Legion lower than WoD, BFA lower than Legion).

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    WCR tracks people who don't have the addon, if they are visible to people who do. And it does not have to track everyone to deliver useful data.

    It has correlated well in the past with more objective changes (like sub announcements), when those were available.

    So I think you're just using that as an excuse to dismiss valid evidence you don't like.
    im using it to proof that data you are basing it are usless in any sceintific research .

    and youdont have any proof that it corelates anything in meaningfull way since we didnt see sub numbers since MoP

    you may belive they are correlated but you dont know it for sure.

    ergo its meaningless data.

    your data is like standing in the street next to University , making survey in which you asking people about their education level and then trying to extrapolate it on wide population . (thats the first comparison that comes to my mind but describeing perfecly possible flaws with the way survey is taken )
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2019-04-10 at 12:52 PM.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    and youdont have any proof that it corelates anything in meaningfull way since we didnt see sub numbers since MoP
    WCR data correlates with player activity because of how the data is obtained (snapshotting all players currently logged in on realm / side), its quantity and coverage (not enough to be talking about activity on a specific realm / side, but more than enough for talking about activity on a region level).

    Player activity correlates with subs, because people use subs to play.

    There are factors that affect the quality of correlations and some change over time, adding uncertainty. But they don't seem super-important (eg, as the game loses players, remaining players tend to have more time played and have more alts, this perhaps increases the average number of alts per player and same levels of activity correspond to lower number of players in later expansions than in earlier expansions -- but the effect is probably small).

    Apart from player activity on WCR, the declines in the number of players show on wowprogress / arena trackers / etc.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by InTheEnd View Post
    If BfA were truly failing, there would be more visible warning signs than there currently are. It's not a great expansion, but let's not put it in the same league as WoD.
    Kindly will disagree. For hardcore raiders, mid tier raiders, and even low end raiders WoD offered far better progression and a reason to go on

    Bfa has the worst attendance for raiding of any expac. Mid and low tier raid guilds have all but folded up in droves

    Bfa is great for solo players, altoholics and the lfr crowd

    But for hardcore players who only play one character all expac? Bfa is the lowest point in wow

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Kindly will disagree. For hardcore raiders, mid tier raiders, and even low end raiders WoD offered far better progression and a reason to go on

    Bfa has the worst attendance for raiding of any expac. Mid and low tier raid guilds have all but folded up in droves

    Bfa is great for solo players, altoholics and the lfr crowd

    But for hardcore players who only play one character all expac? Bfa is the lowest point in wow
    BFA is the first expansion where I felt FORCED to transfer servers to experience the expansion. TBC and Wrath never had these issues and it is not a common complaint I see when people reference WoD.

    Mythic Raiding cross realm being locked behind the most ridiculous system I have ever seen in my mmo gaming life caused a very large amount of guilds to either transfer or flat out fold up and die. You can VERY quickly get to 400 ilvl in BFA with a guild but pushing into Mythic was horrible for Alliance when I was on Arthas.

    Horde had 100 guilds cap Jaina in no time flat but Alliance was forced to wait extra WEEKS which was absolute torture if you experienced it. Watched my old guild effectively die as the lead went to SWToR of all games and others just picked up APEX and never came back.

    Blizzard did not even remotely seem to care at all. For those wondering about the 11th btw it COINCIDENTALLY lines up when a lot of the 6 month bundles are expiring and they want people to resub. So instead of acting like the game has serious issues and communicating they think some big release with promises will make everyone come back.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post

    Bfa is great for solo players, altoholics and the lfr crowd
    I am not sure i would agree with that being the crowd you reference here. The reward structure is so wonky that you can easily outgear LFR or even early Mythic+ just through WQ's + Warfronts.

    There are not enough incentives to keep running the content over and over.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Kindly will disagree. For hardcore raiders, mid tier raiders, and even low end raiders WoD offered far better progression and a reason to go on

    Bfa has the worst attendance for raiding of any expac. Mid and low tier raid guilds have all but folded up in droves

    Bfa is great for solo players, altoholics and the lfr crowd

    But for hardcore players who only play one character all expac? Bfa is the lowest point in wow
    nobody to poach eh ? what a shame.

    if only you could teach new raiders instead depending on people with 10+ years of experience only when you recruit

  14. #474
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    The funny thing is that this isn't even false. It's partly true. Certain games saw a huge rise in players with this expansion. There is absolute correlation.
    People have been saying the same thing since wrath Proabbly before, do you have any thing at all to back it up this time or is it like every other time?

  15. #475
    Know the most pathetic thing about every person who says the game sucks just to complain? They think the one and only reason is because of the reasons they dont like

    They never figure to factor in burnout

    They never think that some people only play patches and not constantly

    They are basically idiots who are stuck in the past, in a cage of 20 foot thick rose colored glass surrounded by an echo chamber. Maybe 5% of them are capable of forming their own thoughts, and of those maybe 25% can hold an actual, civil discussion. Which means that out of all the people who complain and parrot youtube, the devs only want to deal with about 1.25%, because the other 98.75% of them are nothing but whiny, spoiled brats

    People have only themselves to blame for driving the devs away from communication and to Q and A sessions. People will also never admit this or treat the devs like humans, they will lynch them for getting the wrong shade of green on a tree because for some stupid reason, they think anything less than complete perfection is unacceptable. And because of that attitude perpetuating for several years, they are the ones who caused the game to decline because their forum behavior became their in game behavior, and that toxicity drove god knows how many people away

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by vashe9 View Post
    Have you read the interviews ? They keep talking about things that didnt work... 23K posts on mmo-C and hating the game ? What the hell
    And 90% of those posts or more are literally negative. It must be a depressing life to live.

    As for the topic. Failing in one person's eyes can be not failing in anothers. People over-sensationalize everything, especially when it fits their own narrative.
    People that say that Ion hasn't been apologetic are being intentionally daft and its obvious they haven't watched the dev vids.

  17. #477
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    WCR tracks people who don't have the addon, if they are visible to people who do. And it does not have to track everyone to deliver useful data.

    It has correlated well in the past with more objective changes (like sub announcements), when those were available.

    So I think you're just using that as an excuse to dismiss valid evidence you don't like.
    There is no knowing how and if the sample changes based on the population that uses the add-on. I think it's probably useful for general trending up and down. But when people start to make direct comparisons to say there are X subscribers that's when problems start to arise. Personally I think the entire argument about subscriptions should be over. We don't know. Addons don't give precise enough data to know. And the people that are still quoting that stupid debunked API leak hold more sway over the conversation than anyone trying to assemble data in any sort of a better way.

    The end result is that we don't know and that it doesn't really matter. You either have people to play with or you don't. It's not signalling the end of the game or anything so moronically apocalyptic as that. The game goes on. The arguments just seem to get dumber all the time.

    Sign of the times.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2019-04-10 at 04:23 PM.
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  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by InTheEnd View Post
    If BfA were truly failing, there would be more visible warning signs than there currently are. It's not a great expansion, but let's not put it in the same league as WoD.
    You right WoD was great compared to this
    Insert cringe politically charged signature here

  19. #479
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaino View Post
    You right WoD was great compared to this
    This is always a good way to tell if some one is blinded by hate.

  20. #480
    Herald of the Titans Molis's Avatar
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    Because it isnt

    It has issues. They admitted as such, however it is a cash making powerhouse.

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