Page 24 of 29 FirstFirst ...
14
22
23
24
25
26
... LastLast
  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    WCR is based on people using tracking addons.

    it was always meaningless data because most people do not use addons .
    WCR tracks people who don't have the addon, if they are visible to people who do. And it does not have to track everyone to deliver useful data.

    It has correlated well in the past with more objective changes (like sub announcements), when those were available.

    So I think you're just using that as an excuse to dismiss valid evidence you don't like.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    Q: Why was the anti-vaxxer's 4 year old child crying? A: Midlife crisis.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I believe activity, as tracked on WCR, has declined faster (in percentage terms) than in WoD, although I don't have the old graphs from WoD.
    A little faster, yes, but overall very similar, the main difference is that the base is now lower (Legion lower than WoD, BFA lower than Legion).

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    WCR tracks people who don't have the addon, if they are visible to people who do. And it does not have to track everyone to deliver useful data.

    It has correlated well in the past with more objective changes (like sub announcements), when those were available.

    So I think you're just using that as an excuse to dismiss valid evidence you don't like.
    im using it to proof that data you are basing it are usless in any sceintific research .

    and youdont have any proof that it corelates anything in meaningfull way since we didnt see sub numbers since MoP

    you may belive they are correlated but you dont know it for sure.

    ergo its meaningless data.

    your data is like standing in the street next to University , making survey in which you asking people about their education level and then trying to extrapolate it on wide population . (thats the first comparison that comes to my mind but describeing perfecly possible flaws with the way survey is taken )
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2019-04-10 at 12:52 PM.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    and youdont have any proof that it corelates anything in meaningfull way since we didnt see sub numbers since MoP
    WCR data correlates with player activity because of how the data is obtained (snapshotting all players currently logged in on realm / side), its quantity and coverage (not enough to be talking about activity on a specific realm / side, but more than enough for talking about activity on a region level).

    Player activity correlates with subs, because people use subs to play.

    There are factors that affect the quality of correlations and some change over time, adding uncertainty. But they don't seem super-important (eg, as the game loses players, remaining players tend to have more time played and have more alts, this perhaps increases the average number of alts per player and same levels of activity correspond to lower number of players in later expansions than in earlier expansions -- but the effect is probably small).

    Apart from player activity on WCR, the declines in the number of players show on wowprogress / arena trackers / etc.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by InTheEnd View Post
    If BfA were truly failing, there would be more visible warning signs than there currently are. It's not a great expansion, but let's not put it in the same league as WoD.
    Kindly will disagree. For hardcore raiders, mid tier raiders, and even low end raiders WoD offered far better progression and a reason to go on

    Bfa has the worst attendance for raiding of any expac. Mid and low tier raid guilds have all but folded up in droves

    Bfa is great for solo players, altoholics and the lfr crowd

    But for hardcore players who only play one character all expac? Bfa is the lowest point in wow

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Kindly will disagree. For hardcore raiders, mid tier raiders, and even low end raiders WoD offered far better progression and a reason to go on

    Bfa has the worst attendance for raiding of any expac. Mid and low tier raid guilds have all but folded up in droves

    Bfa is great for solo players, altoholics and the lfr crowd

    But for hardcore players who only play one character all expac? Bfa is the lowest point in wow
    BFA is the first expansion where I felt FORCED to transfer servers to experience the expansion. TBC and Wrath never had these issues and it is not a common complaint I see when people reference WoD.

    Mythic Raiding cross realm being locked behind the most ridiculous system I have ever seen in my mmo gaming life caused a very large amount of guilds to either transfer or flat out fold up and die. You can VERY quickly get to 400 ilvl in BFA with a guild but pushing into Mythic was horrible for Alliance when I was on Arthas.

    Horde had 100 guilds cap Jaina in no time flat but Alliance was forced to wait extra WEEKS which was absolute torture if you experienced it. Watched my old guild effectively die as the lead went to SWToR of all games and others just picked up APEX and never came back.

    Blizzard did not even remotely seem to care at all. For those wondering about the 11th btw it COINCIDENTALLY lines up when a lot of the 6 month bundles are expiring and they want people to resub. So instead of acting like the game has serious issues and communicating they think some big release with promises will make everyone come back.

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post

    Bfa is great for solo players, altoholics and the lfr crowd
    I am not sure i would agree with that being the crowd you reference here. The reward structure is so wonky that you can easily outgear LFR or even early Mythic+ just through WQ's + Warfronts.

    There are not enough incentives to keep running the content over and over.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Kindly will disagree. For hardcore raiders, mid tier raiders, and even low end raiders WoD offered far better progression and a reason to go on

    Bfa has the worst attendance for raiding of any expac. Mid and low tier raid guilds have all but folded up in droves

    Bfa is great for solo players, altoholics and the lfr crowd

    But for hardcore players who only play one character all expac? Bfa is the lowest point in wow
    nobody to poach eh ? what a shame.

    if only you could teach new raiders instead depending on people with 10+ years of experience only when you recruit

  9. #469
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    13,019
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    The funny thing is that this isn't even false. It's partly true. Certain games saw a huge rise in players with this expansion. There is absolute correlation.
    People have been saying the same thing since wrath Proabbly before, do you have any thing at all to back it up this time or is it like every other time?

  10. #470
    Know the most pathetic thing about every person who says the game sucks just to complain? They think the one and only reason is because of the reasons they dont like

    They never figure to factor in burnout

    They never think that some people only play patches and not constantly

    They are basically idiots who are stuck in the past, in a cage of 20 foot thick rose colored glass surrounded by an echo chamber. Maybe 5% of them are capable of forming their own thoughts, and of those maybe 25% can hold an actual, civil discussion. Which means that out of all the people who complain and parrot youtube, the devs only want to deal with about 1.25%, because the other 98.75% of them are nothing but whiny, spoiled brats

    People have only themselves to blame for driving the devs away from communication and to Q and A sessions. People will also never admit this or treat the devs like humans, they will lynch them for getting the wrong shade of green on a tree because for some stupid reason, they think anything less than complete perfection is unacceptable. And because of that attitude perpetuating for several years, they are the ones who caused the game to decline because their forum behavior became their in game behavior, and that toxicity drove god knows how many people away

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by vashe9 View Post
    Have you read the interviews ? They keep talking about things that didnt work... 23K posts on mmo-C and hating the game ? What the hell
    And 90% of those posts or more are literally negative. It must be a depressing life to live.

    As for the topic. Failing in one person's eyes can be not failing in anothers. People over-sensationalize everything, especially when it fits their own narrative.
    People that say that Ion hasn't been apologetic are being intentionally daft and its obvious they haven't watched the dev vids.

  12. #472
    Fluffy Kitten MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    29,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    WCR tracks people who don't have the addon, if they are visible to people who do. And it does not have to track everyone to deliver useful data.

    It has correlated well in the past with more objective changes (like sub announcements), when those were available.

    So I think you're just using that as an excuse to dismiss valid evidence you don't like.
    There is no knowing how and if the sample changes based on the population that uses the add-on. I think it's probably useful for general trending up and down. But when people start to make direct comparisons to say there are X subscribers that's when problems start to arise. Personally I think the entire argument about subscriptions should be over. We don't know. Addons don't give precise enough data to know. And the people that are still quoting that stupid debunked API leak hold more sway over the conversation than anyone trying to assemble data in any sort of a better way.

    The end result is that we don't know and that it doesn't really matter. You either have people to play with or you don't. It's not signalling the end of the game or anything so moronically apocalyptic as that. The game goes on. The arguments just seem to get dumber all the time.

    Sign of the times.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2019-04-10 at 04:23 PM.
    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
    —H. L. Mencken, The Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by InTheEnd View Post
    If BfA were truly failing, there would be more visible warning signs than there currently are. It's not a great expansion, but let's not put it in the same league as WoD.
    You right WoD was great compared to this
    Insert cringe politically charged signature here

  14. #474
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    13,019
    Quote Originally Posted by zaino View Post
    You right WoD was great compared to this
    This is always a good way to tell if some one is blinded by hate.

  15. #475
    Herald of the Titans Molis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Northeast Ohio
    Posts
    2,990
    Because it isnt

    It has issues. They admitted as such, however it is a cash making powerhouse.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by zaino View Post
    You right WoD was great compared to this
    Agreed.

    WoD had content that showed a bit of quality in the raids and Tanaan.

    BFD is arguably the worst raid for a .1 patch so far.

  17. #477
    Salty Feline Overlord Beerbill Society's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Monkey rock
    Posts
    1,086
    The answer is simply, BFA is not failing in the business concept, they are making an absurd amount of money.

    BFA is making the same or even more income than previous expansions but not because they have more players, but because the smaller amount of players they have are willing to be money milked by cash shop and paid services.

    BFA main feature is allied races that endorses heavily race change services.

    So unless people start talking with their wallets this game is doom, they will just keep pushing cosmetics and "new expansion" that are the same renamed shit until eventually everybody just give up.
    Ah, you think there is bias for ally? You merely adopted the faction bias. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see alliance have a nice thing until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but bullshit!

    "My name is Legion: for we are many." - Mark 5:9
    My characters :3

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Agreed.

    WoD had content that showed a bit of quality in the raids and Tanaan.

    BFD is arguably the worst raid for a .1 patch so far.
    Not to mention that BfA lacks any meaningful content and the class design is horrible. WoD didn't have content but at least they didn't create a bunch of meaningless crap and try to pawn it off as "content".

    They made everything worse from legion.... M+ is worse then legion, AP is worse than legion, classes are worse than legion. Legion wasn't some amazing expansion, it was just good, but it's light years better then BfA. Unless 8.2 is the holy messiah of wow patches, BfA will go down as the worst expansion so far for me.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Not to mention that BfA lacks any meaningful content and the class design is horrible. WoD didn't have content but at least they didn't create a bunch of meaningless crap and try to pawn it off as "content".

    They made everything worse from legion.... M+ is worse then legion, AP is worse than legion, classes are worse than legion. Legion wasn't some amazing expansion, it was just good, but it's light years better then BfA. Unless 8.2 is the holy messiah of wow patches, BfA will go down as the worst expansion so far for me.
    8.2 will probably last for a few weeks of people loving it and then that will all just go away once they realise it'll probably be the same timegating metrics to the story, no raid for a month and so on.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    8.2 will probably last for a few weeks of people loving it and then that will all just go away once they realise it'll probably be the same timegating metrics to the story, no raid for a month and so on.
    8.2 is not going to be the saviour of BFA. Blizzard doesn't have time to completely rework boring systems (see warfronts, island expeditions, azerite armour, unfun classes aka everything that makes BFA the expansion it is). All they can do is make bandaid tweaks and push the content out as it has been planned for months. Everyone seems to ignore when they said that they would make changes to shamans for 8.1 and it turned out they lied and had 'no time' to make changes.

    Players are really getting their hopes up thinking that 8.2 could be the expansion's saving grace. This hype is developing from Blizzard trying not to show anything for 8.2. Players are going to be disappointed but they'll still reassure themselves when it's live because stockholm syndrome. Classes aren't suddenly going to be fun again in 8.2, and neither are islands, warfronts or anything else players find unfun.

    Players are expecting so much because they're passionate about the game and want it to succeed, but Blizzard are in the state where they're trying to stretch the carrot on a stick that they do have, in the hopes that it retains players.

    Blizzard are being deliberately hush hush about 8.2 and they are showing the content in a controlled environment (dev stream tomorrow). They've even put an encrypted build on PTR so we can't see anything until after the stream. They weren't so quiet during Legion when 7.2 was soon to come up on the PTR because the game wasn't in a dire state.

    The last time they were this quiet and distant from communicating with the community was during WoD before 6.2 came up. They behaved the exact same: almost vanished from the forums and restricted their communication with the community to a dev stream where they said they weren't going to introduce flying. Now look how that turned out lol.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •